Page 16 of 19 FirstFirst ... 6111415161718 ... LastLast
Results 301 to 320 of 374

Thread: Is 'National Service' necessary?

  1. #301
    Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Location
    Sembawang
    Posts
    1,479

    Default Re: Is 'National Service' necessary?

    Even if you have the $ to pay for it, you still need somebody to create / facilitate it...not everything just pop out of nowhere...

    If not happy, just leave this place lor...nobody forcing you to stay....

  2. #302

    Default Re: Is 'National Service' necessary?

    What Heinlein suggested in Starship Troopers was voluntary service; there were no conscripts. His idea was that only people who have served the country should be allowed to vote or serve as an elected official. You had the choice between NS and your say in how your country is run, or no NS and no voice.

    Our armed forces are based on a conscript system, which doesn't allow you a choice. I don't consider spending time in the DB or going overseas and never returning as viable alternatives to conscription.

    It raises interesting questions. If given the choice, would you (men and women alike) volunteer for NS in order to be allowed to (possibly) vote to elect your MP? Should you be allowed to run for parliament only if you've done NS?


    Quote Originally Posted by Zplus View Post
    For an extreme argument FOR National Service... read Starship Troopers ~ Robert Heinlein (the book...not the crappy movie). Basically, argues that for a person to earn the "right" to vote, he needs to serve in the National Service. Else, how different would you be compared to an "import"?
    Last edited by Celebring; 30th October 2007 at 02:04 PM.

  3. #303

    Default Re: Is 'National Service' necessary?

    Quote Originally Posted by Stratix View Post
    i have to say, what does your family members got to do with sense of belong in singapore? if you choose to leave, you could jolly well bring them along, why not?

    food and water, please. it's something you and i paid for. and btw, it's so largely inflated that it's getting harder and harder to provide proper meals. i know it because my parents, today, don't earn money easily as most of you whom sit in nice aircon rooms. after so much inflation happening these days, their salary just dont seem to increase.

    and whatever you've stated, i've rightfully paid for it. infact, i've rightfully paid ALOT for it.

    man. you can be as patriotic as you sound. i'm entitled to my fair share of opinion, simply because whatever i see isn't whatever you see. period.

    and oh, i'm not the only one. i'm not even in the minority groups to begin with.
    You are here today. It comes with a price paid for my our hard working ancestors.

    Where do find education or where do you receive your education... you have one of the best in the world.. pse note that it is not determined by us, the world recognises us as the best!

    You reserve the right to say what you want and you know that nothing is free. You got a job and you you receive a salary. It is meant for your to survive, but wait again your education count. You are what you are today. It did not come automatically. You are given the environment, the opportunity and all the resources that are available for you to receive the best education. If you happened to be in a not so well-to-do family, your family's contribution to the revenue of the nation is very minimun. It is not enough to pay for your education.

    If you are poor and you are prepared to work hard, there are many support groups who are ready to give you a helping hand. The school are prepared to give you free education. You even receive pocket monies, busfare allowance, not forgeting free uniform etc with just one condition, "Come to school and study hard". This is the future of our next generation.

    If this is not enough what else is good for you?

  4. #304
    vince123123
    Guests

    Default Re: Is 'National Service' necessary?

    If the voting system is not as it is today, I think there would be more incentive to doing NS to earn the eligibility to vote. However, with all the moves done for voting today, having the eligibility to vote may be as good as none at all - hence there is not much benefit.

    Quote Originally Posted by Celebring View Post
    What Heinlein suggested in Starship Troopers was voluntary service; there were no conscripts. His idea was that only people who have served the country should be allowed to vote or serve as an elected official. You had the choice between NS and your say in how your country is run, or no NS and no voice.

    Our armed forces are based on a conscript system, which doesn't allow you a choice. I don't consider spending time in the DB or going overseas and never returning as viable alternatives to conscription.

    It raises interesting questions. If given the choice, would you (men and women alike) volunteer for NS in order to be allowed to (possibly) vote to elect your MP? Should you be allowed to run for parliament only if you've done NS?

  5. #305

    Default Re: Is 'National Service' necessary?

    Quote Originally Posted by scramblur11 View Post
    Even if you have the $ to pay for it, you still need somebody to create / facilitate it...not everything just pop out of nowhere...

    If not happy, just leave this place lor...nobody forcing you to stay....
    U are right.

    Everybody has a choice. What you pick may not be the best for you. If you dont like it find another one.

  6. #306

    Default Re: Is 'National Service' necessary?

    Quote Originally Posted by Celebring View Post
    What Heinlein suggested in Starship Troopers was voluntary service; there were no conscripts. His idea was that only people who have served the country should be allowed to vote or serve as an elected official. You had the choice between NS and your say in how your country is run, or no NS and no voice.

    Our armed forces are based on a conscript system, which doesn't allow you a choice. I don't consider spending time in the DB or going overseas and never returning as viable alternatives to conscription.

    It raises interesting questions. If given the choice, would you (men and women alike) volunteer for NS in order to be allowed to (possibly) vote to elect your MP? Should you be allowed to run for parliament only if you've done NS?
    Cannot imagine what will happen if given the choice. I think it will be too late. They need to be trained and training takes time. We need to prepare and prepare for the worst.

    It is a 'no choice' and unpopular decision. Nobody will help you if you are in trouble. We have to depend on ourselves.

  7. #307
    Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Location
    CCK
    Posts
    1,051

    Default Re: Is 'National Service' necessary?

    Quote Originally Posted by Stratix View Post
    i have to say, what does your family members got to do with sense of belong in singapore? if you choose to leave, you could jolly well bring them along, why not?

    food and water, please. it's something you and i paid for. and btw, it's so largely inflated that it's getting harder and harder to provide proper meals. i know it because my parents, today, don't earn money easily as most of you whom sit in nice aircon rooms. after so much inflation happening these days, their salary just dont seem to increase.

    and whatever you've stated, i've rightfully paid for it. infact, i've rightfully paid ALOT for it.

    man. you can be as patriotic as you sound. i'm entitled to my fair share of opinion, simply because whatever i see isn't whatever you see. period.

    and oh, i'm not the only one. i'm not even in the minority groups to begin with.
    When you say you could have landed that plum job with greater ease had you lived in Myanmar, you almost had me choke on my coffee. . How naive can you be?? What is the median income and educational level in Myanmar? You think you could have had the same opportunities as here in Singapore?? Your post goes straight to the crux of the matter, and now we see why never the 'twain shall meet. Because you do not have a sense of history, a sense of how far we have come from where we were, a sense of what our forefathers have built. You only have a sense of the here and now. As they say, those who do not learn the lessons of history are doomed to repeat its mistakes. No depth, no history, and sorry to say, no foresight. There is nothing that is "rightfully" yours, nothing. Go live in Somalia and demand your "rightful" access to clean water and competent healthcare. See how much you can "rightfully" pay for it. You want to leave? Don't let the door hit you on the way out....

  8. #308

    Default Re: Is 'National Service' necessary?

    Quote Originally Posted by Yappy View Post
    Cannot imagine what will happen if given the choice. I think it will be too late. They need to be trained and training takes time. We need to prepare and prepare for the worst.

    It is a 'no choice' and unpopular decision. Nobody will help you if you are in trouble. We have to depend on ourselves.
    Yes, training troops takes time, which is why, if you read my previous post more carefully, I wasn't asking if you would join a volunteer army when Singapore is on the brink of war.

    My questions also have nothing to do with the popularity of NS nor the necessity of having our own armed forces.

    To put it more directly, the question was that if you had the choice would you opt to avoid NS if the cost was that you could never vote or become an MP?

    My other question was that whether there was a need for people who want to run for parliament to have completed NS of some sort.

  9. #309

    Default Re: Is 'National Service' necessary?

    Quote Originally Posted by Celebring View Post
    Yes, training troops takes time, which is why, if you read my previous post more carefully, I wasn't asking if you would join a volunteer army when Singapore is on the brink of war.

    My questions also have nothing to do with the popularity of NS nor the necessity of having our own armed forces.

    To put it more directly, the question was that if you had the choice would you opt to avoid NS if the cost was that you could never vote or become an MP?

    My other question was that whether there was a need for people who want to run for parliament to have completed NS of some sort.
    Thank you for the note.

    My opinion on the the 2 questions are:

    1. There are many ppl out there who would do anything to avoid NS. Anyway, be an MP is not a glamorous job in Singapore.

    2. Those eligible would have completed NS.

  10. #310

    Default Re: Is 'National Service' necessary?

    Quote Originally Posted by dkw View Post
    When you say you could have landed that plum job with greater ease had you lived in Myanmar, you almost had me choke on my coffee. . How naive can you be?? What is the median income and educational level in Myanmar? You think you could have had the same opportunities as here in Singapore?? Your post goes straight to the crux of the matter, and now we see why never the 'twain shall meet. Because you do not have a sense of history, a sense of how far we have come from where we were, a sense of what our forefathers have built. You only have a sense of the here and now. As they say, those who do not learn the lessons of history are doomed to repeat its mistakes. No depth, no history, and sorry to say, no foresight. There is nothing that is "rightfully" yours, nothing. Go live in Somalia and demand your "rightful" access to clean water and competent healthcare. See how much you can "rightfully" pay for it. You want to leave? Don't let the door hit you on the way out....
    U are right.

    There are many pple out there still think likewise. They are fortunate to be in Singapore. Do you think they have a chance to voice like we do in Myanmar.

    It is a rare commodity in Mynamar to serve the net. If you speak up and speak 'wrongly', the authority will be right at your door step.

    In Somalia... that is too extreme.. even in some Latin countries, the inflation rate is 100 times per month.. and imagine you have a million $ in the bank account, it will become worthless in no time!(One of my bosses told me. He only want to be paid in US$ if he is posted there and not in the local currency)

  11. #311
    vince123123
    Guests

    Default Re: Is 'National Service' necessary?

    Just as you can compare to countries worse off than Singapore, he can also compare with countries better off than Singapore. What's the point of comparing?

    Quote Originally Posted by dkw View Post
    When you say you could have landed that plum job with greater ease had you lived in Myanmar, you almost had me choke on my coffee. . How naive can you be?? What is the median income and educational level in Myanmar? You think you could have had the same opportunities as here in Singapore?? Your post goes straight to the crux of the matter, and now we see why never the 'twain shall meet. Because you do not have a sense of history, a sense of how far we have come from where we were, a sense of what our forefathers have built. You only have a sense of the here and now. As they say, those who do not learn the lessons of history are doomed to repeat its mistakes. No depth, no history, and sorry to say, no foresight. There is nothing that is "rightfully" yours, nothing. Go live in Somalia and demand your "rightful" access to clean water and competent healthcare. See how much you can "rightfully" pay for it. You want to leave? Don't let the door hit you on the way out....

  12. #312

    Default Re: Is 'National Service' necessary?

    Quote Originally Posted by vince123123 View Post
    Just as you can compare to countries worse off than Singapore, he can also compare with countries better off than Singapore. What's the point of comparing?
    I agreed with vince123123.

    Can anyone out there tell us which countires are a better place to stay than Singapore and the procedure to apply to stay there?

  13. #313

    Default Re: Is 'National Service' necessary?

    Quote Originally Posted by scramblur11 View Post
    Even if you have the $ to pay for it, you still need somebody to create / facilitate it...not everything just pop out of nowhere...

    If not happy, just leave this place lor...nobody forcing you to stay....
    We call them 'thick skin'.

  14. #314

    Default Re: Is 'National Service' necessary?

    Quote Originally Posted by Stratix View Post
    i have to say, what does your family members got to do with sense of belong in singapore? if you choose to leave, you could jolly well bring them along, why not?

    food and water, please. it's something you and i paid for. and btw, it's so largely inflated that it's getting harder and harder to provide proper meals. i know it because my parents, today, don't earn money easily as most of you whom sit in nice aircon rooms. after so much inflation happening these days, their salary just dont seem to increase.

    and whatever you've stated, i've rightfully paid for it. infact, i've rightfully paid ALOT for it.

    man. you can be as patriotic as you sound. i'm entitled to my fair share of opinion, simply because whatever i see isn't whatever you see. period.

    and oh, i'm not the only one. i'm not even in the minority groups to begin with.
    So when are you leaving..

    I may want to go tothe airport to send you off.

    U can always come back on social visit pass!

    Bon voyage!

  15. #315
    Senior Member Sion's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    新天地
    Posts
    4,768

    Default Re: Is 'National Service' necessary?

    Quote Originally Posted by Yappy View Post
    Can anyone out there tell us which countires are a better place to stay than Singapore and the procedure to apply to stay there?
    Paradise.

    No need to apply one.

    Just wait your turn at the age of 80, 90 or whenever your passport to Earth expires.
    Last edited by Sion; 9th November 2007 at 08:39 AM.

  16. #316

    Default Re: Is 'National Service' necessary?

    Quote Originally Posted by Yappy View Post
    Can anyone out there tell us which countires are a better place to stay than Singapore and the procedure to apply to stay there?

    Easy.

    If you got the phat lewt then practically anywhere can be shaped to be better than Singapore (I'll take Bali myself; beach, babes and a whole lot of kawaii tourists out for a good time).

    If you don't, then it's not that easy.

  17. #317
    Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2004
    Location
    Mostly SF, Sometimes SGP
    Posts
    424

    Default Re: Is 'National Service' necessary?

    Quote Originally Posted by airfins View Post
    It is sad to note that there is nothing in this country that gives you a sense of belonging, your Parents and your love ones (if you have any) will even be more sadden by your comment.

    This country has not provided anything for you? How did you get your so call education? What do you eat? Where did you get the water to drink? Which slump are you staying in now? Are you jobless? It is through the government effort that secure you with your food and water supply from other countries, its them again who created a stable economy for you to make a living. They provide you with an opportunity to be able to stay in a place thats well stock with all the modern comfort such as TV, Phone, Air-Con, Water heater etc. What the country has provided you with is a platform for you to be what you are today, always remember your roots and where you come from.

    Your parents brought you up by working in this country, earning an income to feed, educate and house you. Without it you won't even be here enjoying yourself with things that you don't even appreciate.

    I sincerely wish you luck when you leave this country, hope that you can find a place where you will truly feel belong to and never never return. Please leave as soon as possible, this is not the place for you. This country does not welcome people who does not appreciate what they are having for a simple fact that it is this country that gives you this opportunity. It makes me sick to know that we have people who think this way in this country.

    Till today I still do not respect all those Tuang King or Lazy Sxxt that serve the nation together with me during my NS days - No matter how well they have achieve in their career. They have already shown me their true colour during those testing time. With that kind of attitude they have, they does not deserve any good things happening to them. As for your future generation, don't worry too much, with that kind of attitude you have and you without a root, there are none for you to being with.

    If you does not feel that this is your home thats worth fighting for, leave immediately, because this house does not welcome you, don't even think of staying one more day to make use of what it can provide you with, money or education to feed you on so that you can arm yourself enough to leave. This is a place that has nothing to offer to you and its a waste of its resources to feed a parasite.

    Best of luck to those who are so call "without a home" in finding a place that they can call home.
    Ok, not picking a fight or anything, but just curious on what your views on women are since they didn't serve NS?

  18. #318

    Default Re: Is 'National Service' necessary?

    Quote Originally Posted by drakon09 View Post
    Easy.

    If you got the phat lewt then practically anywhere can be shaped to be better than Singapore (I'll take Bali myself; beach, babes and a whole lot of kawaii tourists out for a good time).

    If you don't, then it's not that easy.
    Personally I love Bali, but I almost kana bomd during the 2nd bombing. Luckily I cancel the trip or else I would had my last seafood meal liao

    Quote Originally Posted by ckuang View Post
    Ok, not picking a fight or anything, but just curious on what your views on women are since they didn't serve NS?
    Not being a sexist but I believe Men is naturally the better fighter during war due to the fact of the physical and emotional torlerance level. We have all been thru NS we know how it is to go thru mission, do you think woman can do a better job? If you were to go to a war and had a bunch of female POW, what will you do to them? For me there is only 1 thing that I will do....

    Yes there will be some who can do it, better then us even, but what is the %? Do you want to put all the woman thru it just to find the 10-20% of them that is capable to do it? That will be wasting our budget. Women will do better in a support role. We cannot just ask the woman to do NS for the seek of equality between men and woman. Its a matter of choosing the right person for the right job.

    With the decline birth rate in Singapore I would not be surprise that woman will be Drafted into NS in the future to fill the various non Front line post. We need an army to keep the stability of a Country, like it or not we need it. If we have a large population then we can just have volunteers to sign on, if we are small then there will not be enough to fill the ranks so we have to have NS. If one feels that it is not to his liking and violently reject the idea, then he have the freedom to leave. If there is still concern or anything reason that he cant leave, then he should just shut up and go thru it as he have no choice now, nobody force us to stay here, its the house rule so anyone who stays behind will have to obey to it.

    I am not happy with my job now, the work is no good, there is no prospect and its getting worse... but I cant leave as there is no other job that pays me this much outside according to my abilities. So what I can do now is to shut up and continue to work there to support my family, I have to learn to appreciate the other things in my life to stay happy. shoot more and be happy...
    Canon 30D, G11, 50 f1.8II, 10-22 f3.5-4.5, 24-70 f2.8L, 70-200 f2.8L IS, EX580II

  19. #319

    Default Re: Is 'National Service' necessary?

    Is the $5000 fine still on offer?

  20. #320

    Default Re: Is 'National Service' necessary?

    As much as i hate it, we do need it.
    Eat breath LIVERPOOL!!!

Page 16 of 19 FirstFirst ... 6111415161718 ... LastLast

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •