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Thread: Is 'National Service' necessary?

  1. #181
    vince123123
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    Default Re: Is 'National Service' necessary?

    To add on to the sentiments of those who also think its a waste of time - a lot of the times, I understand the time wasting is because the commanders are not able to figure out what it is that they want. Hence while they take the time to decide, the rest of the men sit around and do nothing.

    As for mobilsation, in my experience, all I need to do is to appear, sign in, and can go off. I'm not sure why soemone had to wait for 8 hours doing nothing, but it surely shows once again that the army is clearly a poorly organised inconsistent bunch.

  2. #182

    Default Re: Is 'National Service' necessary?

    me enlisting on 6th Dec..
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  3. #183
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    Default Re: Is 'National Service' necessary?

    Quote Originally Posted by raptor1988 View Post
    me enlisting on 6th Dec..

    Congrats
    Recruit life sucks...but its the most memorable throughout ur army days.
    If u happens to be excused from BMT then its a waste. If not enjoy it

  4. #184

    Default Re: Is 'National Service' necessary?

    In NS, u see the real thing, not like roadshows like Open House...
    I am NOT a PROfessional photographer and photography is NOT my hobby

  5. #185
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    Default Re: Is 'National Service' necessary?

    Quote Originally Posted by vince123123 View Post
    To add on to the sentiments of those who also think its a waste of time - a lot of the times, I understand the time wasting is because the commanders are not able to figure out what it is that they want. Hence while they take the time to decide, the rest of the men sit around and do nothing.

    As for mobilsation, in my experience, all I need to do is to appear, sign in, and can go off. I'm not sure why soemone had to wait for 8 hours doing nothing, but it surely shows once again that the army is clearly a poorly organised inconsistent bunch.
    den those garang adverts really....

  6. #186

    Default Re: Is 'National Service' necessary?

    Quote Originally Posted by kiwi2 View Post
    I think NS is definitely necessary. What irks some of us guys is the time wasting and terrible admin they have there.

    All those adverts about SAF are overhyped. The public never see what's the real inside and the big shots wont know what relly goes on at the bottom level. Do they care anyway? Hardly, and I don't blame them. It will hardly affect them. As for SAF scholars, their paths are all well laid out. Of course they can utter those nice words you see in the Scholarship adverts.

    Besides BMT, where i did learn some skills and fitness, I'd say my time in NS is waste time. Cos I was downgraded and had to be a servant -- wash cups, prepare notes for officers, clean toilets, endure long long waits just for things to happen (characteristic of SAF back then and I believe still now.) Basically things that won't help me in my future.

    But I didn't complain back then cos I treated it as a duty every male Singaporean has to go thru. You know, they said, SAF -- Serve and F____ Off... All us NSF who got better things to do were looking forward to our ORD. My friends were all comparing with each other -- Eh, u so good Pes C, next time reservist not so siong... Wah u Pes E lagi better, 5 yrs reservist only... etc

    But I just realize this is not the case. I still get called up... Yes, to do what? Waste time thingy again... Stuffs NSF could do easily but oh no... they got to get people like me... I hate the waste time sessions. MAn, I'm no longer a 20 year old young guy who could spare precious time doing rubbish. Now, it has to happen again?!

    Even for mobilisation, they tell me you must come back by 1 1/2 hrs time!!! When I reached there, just sat around waited for 8 hours doing nothing! Some of my super fit friends who are Pes A are not even called for anything at all!

    I don't earn that big money, but still, every time they call me for reservist, SAF has to fork out >$1000 for a few days of my time that other NSFs can easily do.

    And when it comes to other matters like financial help lower income family can get, notice how difficult they try to make the poor enjoy them by setting a very low income bracket per family?

    I see no logic.

    Yes, NS is definitely necessary but ___________ Oh whatever.
    U are the few that the SAF has missed out or you are there just to do some refreshing or retraining to keep you current so that you are always ready to syn with the system.

    If you are not updated it will be worst when you are needed most during emergency.

    I also agree that commander must be trained to manage their time so that man hours are maximised.

    Man hours = money. However over the years I strongly believe that there are improvements made. When NS just started, you only get $60. Now I was told that recruit gets about $400.

    To us, it may sound little. But to any school leaver, it is a good source of income considering that you also get free food and lodging. U are also forced to stay in cmap so that you dont spend all the monies....

  7. #187

    Default Re: Is 'National Service' necessary?

    Quote Originally Posted by vince123123 View Post
    I think its probably not a good idea to say what the unit is, scarly kena black mark during reserivst Wait until I complete the cycle then I tell you

    If someone wants to create work for you to fill up your time durign reservist, anyone can do that. The question I'm asking is whether it is indeed necessary for all that work or time to be spent. At the end of the day, I believe that the KPIs required for each ICT can be easily met without spending all that time doing it.

    Its people like you that cause the people in authority to create work to fill up the space and such work is only intended as a space filler.
    There is never a perfect system. The system must continues to improve. However, when the system evolve, time also catches up. They move together.

    As long as there is improvement, the system survives. e.g.IBM changes from a hardware provider to a total solution company. Why does IBM need to change?

    We talk about KPI... so what is KPI all about? KPI includes recommendation for improvement so what is the recommendations? there is space and gap to fill.. any suggestion? U may win yourself an award ... Haha

    Always remember the Chinese saying "You feed the army for a hundred days and use it only once...!"

  8. #188

    Default Re: Is 'National Service' necessary?

    Quote Originally Posted by glay78 View Post
    Congrats
    Recruit life sucks...but its the most memorable throughout ur army days.
    If u happens to be excused from BMT then its a waste. If not enjoy it
    Very green and get bullied by the seniors. This is life. It is these senior that made life miserable for the recruits... I remembered I was told to report to the Sgt's bunk and every Sgts made me do 20 push up... there were about 10 of them.

    When I became an officer, they were worried that I would take revenge. But I didnt and they became my good friends. That's life!

  9. #189
    vince123123
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    Default Re: Is 'National Service' necessary?

    I don't think I said anything about a perfect system or a lack of improvement from the past.

    You've also missed my point about KPIs. I mentioned KPIs to say that as long as the goals of that particular ICT is met, commanders should not feel obliged to create work just to fill time. Instead, ways at how to cut unfilled time should be looked at.

    I also don't recall making any statements that preparation should not be made for an army over time to be used for a single occassion.

    Quote Originally Posted by Yappy View Post
    There is never a perfect system. The system must continues to improve. However, when the system evolve, time also catches up. They move together.

    As long as there is improvement, the system survives. e.g.IBM changes from a hardware provider to a total solution company. Why does IBM need to change?

    We talk about KPI... so what is KPI all about? KPI includes recommendation for improvement so what is the recommendations? there is space and gap to fill.. any suggestion? U may win yourself an award ... Haha

    Always remember the Chinese saying "You feed the army for a hundred days and use it only once...!"

  10. #190
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    Default Re: Is 'National Service' necessary?

    Quote Originally Posted by Yappy View Post
    Very green and get bullied by the seniors. This is life. It is these senior that made life miserable for the recruits... I remembered I was told to report to the Sgt's bunk and every Sgts made me do 20 push up... there were about 10 of them.

    When I became an officer, they were worried that I would take revenge. But I didnt and they became my good friends. That's life!
    Haha...those were the time...I should have tekan more cadats as some really think they were COL wearing 2LT rank after commission..
    But not to miss out there were really very very good officers around too. Jus like working outside u get to see good bosses as well as f#*k up bosses.

  11. #191

    Default Re: Is 'National Service' necessary?

    Quote Originally Posted by vince123123 View Post
    I don't think I said anything about a perfect system or a lack of improvement from the past.

    You've also missed my point about KPIs. I mentioned KPIs to say that as long as the goals of that particular ICT is met, commanders should not feel obliged to create work just to fill time. Instead, ways at how to cut unfilled time should be looked at.

    I also don't recall making any statements that preparation should not be made for an army over time to be used for a single occassion.
    Correct me if I am wrong.

    Program for ICT is planned accordingly to a set of guidelines. Some reservists do it faster and other just cannot complete the tasks. Many factors contribute to the successful completion of a ICT. I shall not discuss them here.
    Just imagine a set of program for many groups of trainees from different walks of lives can be very .... commanders had to adjust them to suit everyone if possible. If you have a commander who is very rigid then the reservists may have to do more than necessary.. and when the program is completed on time or earlier, there will be spare time around... when during NSF, we would be made to do extras area cleaning or more physical training.. do you want to have those program during your ICT?
    The choice is yours...
    Last edited by Yappy; 8th October 2007 at 08:05 PM.

  12. #192

    Default Re: Is 'National Service' necessary?

    Quote Originally Posted by glay78 View Post
    Haha...those were the time...I should have tekan more cadats as some really think they were COL wearing 2LT rank after commission..
    But not to miss out there were really very very good officers around too. Jus like working outside u get to see good bosses as well as f#*k up bosses.
    Bad commander... shoot him when you have a chance as he or she is not suitable to be a commander..

    As for good commander.. fight together with him/her ..

  13. #193
    vince123123
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    Default Re: Is 'National Service' necessary?

    Why are you going around in circles again - I've already made my point on the extra unncessary time filler types of work.

    If to you, no extra time filler = plus, then you are wrong.

    Extra Time Filler = minus
    Extra time wasted = minus

    No extra time filler = neutral
    No extra unncessary duties = neutral

    No time wasted = plus = efficient.

    I think your brain is too brainwashed by the army already thats why they have pple thinking that having time fillers is normal.

    Quote Originally Posted by Yappy View Post
    Correct me if I am wrong.

    Program for ICT is planned accordingly to a set of guidelines. Some reservists do it faster and other just cannot complete the tasks. Many factors contribute to the successful completion of a ICT. I shall not discuss them here.
    Just imagine a set of program for many groups of trainees from different walks of lives can be very .... commanders had to adjust them to suit everyone if possible. If you have a commander who is very rigid then the reservists may have to do more than necessary.. and when the program is completed on time or earlier, there will be spare time around... when during NSF, we would be made to do extras area cleaning or more physical training.. do you want to have those program during your ICT?
    The choice is yours...

  14. #194

    Default Re: Is 'National Service' necessary?

    I enjoyed my NS time. Necessary...yes. Or else how can Singapore say their army so good so good and then deter other people? They can now say its so good so good cos we got this training, that equipment.

    Idea is, if you want to smoke others, make sure u got a good smoke screen. To get a good smoke screen, invest in good smoke granades and train ur men to use the smoke well. Get the idea? When time for bullets to fly, too late liao

  15. #195

    Default Re: Is 'National Service' necessary?

    Quote Originally Posted by Clement Low View Post
    Idea is, if you want to smoke others, make sure u got a good smoke screen. To get a good smoke screen, invest in good smoke granades and train ur men to use the smoke well. Get the idea? When time for bullets to fly, too late liao
    haha.. nice one!! agree with the good smoke screen!
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  16. #196
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    Default Re: Is 'National Service' necessary?

    i agree my 2yrs (some others 2.5 yrs) in army is necessary but returning every year for up to 15 - 40 days is really detrimental to 1's career. somemore spread over a peroid of several years. sometimes i looking for job than cos ICT soon, i got no takers.

    oni got service pay...

  17. #197

    Default Re: Is 'National Service' necessary?

    Quote Originally Posted by vince123123 View Post
    Why are you going around in circles again - I've already made my point on the extra unncessary time filler types of work.

    If to you, no extra time filler = plus, then you are wrong.

    Extra Time Filler = minus
    Extra time wasted = minus

    No extra time filler = neutral
    No extra unncessary duties = neutral

    No time wasted = plus = efficient.

    I think your brain is too brainwashed by the army already thats why they have pple thinking that having time fillers is normal.
    I agreed with you whole heartedly.

    Time=$$$$

    Maybe we should revise sleeping from 8 hours to 4 hours. With that extras 4 hrs plus the number of pple = fantastic amount of time is used or wasted?

    So if I get you correctly... commander must learnt to manage the time? Right?

    This a AFI... good suggestion. if I read correctly..

    Regards

  18. #198

    Default Re: Is 'National Service' necessary?

    Quote Originally Posted by sORe-EyEz View Post
    i agree my 2yrs (some others 2.5 yrs) in army is necessary but returning every year for up to 15 - 40 days is really detrimental to 1's career. somemore spread over a peroid of several years. sometimes i looking for job than cos ICT soon, i got no takers.

    oni got service pay...
    You are investing in the future of yourself and family...

    I always enjoy going back to ICT... see my old firends.. chat with them play cards with them and most of the time after ICT... go for a drink for old time sake..

  19. #199
    vince123123
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    Default Re: Is 'National Service' necessary?

    I'm not sure if you intend for me to read your words at face value, or to try to discern undertones. In particular, directed at the words in blue, although everything else seems fine.

    I'm not sure where that whole sleeping time concept came from.

    Quote Originally Posted by Yappy View Post
    I agreed with you whole heartedly.

    Time=$$$$

    Maybe we should revise sleeping from 8 hours to 4 hours. With that extras 4 hrs plus the number of pple = fantastic amount of time is used or wasted?

    So if I get you correctly... commander must learnt to manage the time? Right?

    This a AFI... good suggestion. if I read correctly..

    Regards

  20. #200
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    Default Re: Is 'National Service' necessary?

    Quote Originally Posted by vince123123 View Post
    Its people like you that cause the people in authority to create work to fill up the space and such work is only intended as a space filler.
    Don't get it lah, explain more of that please.

    But if I understand it right, you're are talking about my service conversion right? If that's it, then I can only say that my whole battalion NSmen was from service vocation - no space filler .

    There were actually 3 battalion of ex service vocation NSmen converted. Tell them they are space filler and you'll get screwed. Cooks, life guard, tkd instructor, BMT instructor, clerk, storeman etc....who are fighting fit again due to one reason or another.

    We were there to defend S'pore at a moments notice the whole of last decade without 2nd thoughts.

    Your half-heartedness worries me about the fighting spirit of the current crop. Don't forget I will depend on you people to defend me.

    If time=$$$$ is always the issue, then gone liao, must call those on MR back.


    I've done my time, Just Do Yours Lah !!! Why the noise for such minor inconvenience in life!
    Last edited by greenieadi; 9th October 2007 at 02:09 PM.

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