View Poll Results: DSLR without LCD vs DSLR with LCD

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  • Will only buy DSLR with LCD

    89 76.07%
  • Will buy DSLR without LCD @ $100-200 Price Diff

    3 2.56%
  • Will buy DSLR without LCD @ $201-300 price Diff

    25 21.37%
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Thread: DSLR without LCD, Who will buy???

  1. #41

    Default Re: DSLR without LCD, Who will buy???

    Quote Originally Posted by sammy888 View Post
    Not really lah...if that is so ...the iPod would have cost you alot more money to buy.
    compare ipod shuttle, nano and ipod video. Tell me isn't the price around 30-40% of price difference between each model?

  2. #42
    Senior Member sammy888's Avatar
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    Default Re: DSLR without LCD, Who will buy???

    Quote Originally Posted by photo.cavendish View Post
    compare ipod shuttle, nano and ipod video. Tell me isn't the price around 30-40% of price difference between each model?
    But you don;t know their base price. heheh...Pricing sometimes if not most has sometime nothing so much to do with recost of production or cost of investing in the development..etc. It is about "wants" If you have something that is good enough and have enough people desiring it...marking it up by a 1000 percent is not uncommon.

    Apple for example has sharp business sense to use that to great effect by the way. heh. Get it made cheap, good marketing positioning, stir up their over zealots Apple fanboys, mark up high and sell and buy Steve Jobs a Private Jet heh. Cameras are no difference. You can get "almost" as good a camera from say Oympus or Pentax..etc as oppose to Nikon and Canon but look at the higher price you need to pay. To sweeten the deal othe brands like the former has to play abit of a price war too to get a piece of the pie from the two big DLSR brands. So sometime it has nothing to do with just the cost of production and sums of the parts built into a product.

  3. #43

    Default Re: DSLR without LCD, Who will buy???

    this topic should be under kopitiam lor

    quite boh liao, if you ask me

    now still got film
    if you buy dslr without lcd, then all the advantages of digital go flying out of the window
    and you are probably better off with film, due to better dynamic range, etc
    film versus digital - once you take away instant preview
    almost all the advantages of digital are gone, shrug

  4. #44

    Default Re: DSLR without LCD, Who will buy???

    really cannot imagine a camera without LCD screen. it will be very tedious to set the settings you want, even if there are individual dials for you to do so on the external body of the camera. just my 2 cents.

  5. #45
    Senior Member sammy888's Avatar
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    Default Re: DSLR without LCD, Who will buy???

    Quote Originally Posted by joeyjoey View Post
    really cannot imagine a camera without LCD screen. it will be very tedious to set the settings you want, even if there are individual dials for you to do so on the external body of the camera. just my 2 cents.
    Ah...hello we have been doing that for decades. "I" have been doing that since 1983 with a Nikon FG right up to my F5 way beyond the era of the DSLR. hehehe...

    Have you no confidence in your camera's ability to meter lighting for you?, Have you no condidence in your ability to use your camera and know it's capability well? Have you not spend enough time shooting with it and knowing enough about the fundamental of photography to shoot competently? heheh Try it..tape up your LCD preview screen. Go shoot. Make observations and take notes, compare them from one shot to another. Take shot in various lighting condition..etc. If you do this long enough, you find you actually shoot alot better. I am not sure about the creative part but technique wise you will see improvement and when you go back to previewing with your LCD...you find you make decision alot faster now and with that out of the way, you might start to spend more time being creative with your composure.

    I think those of us who were from the "old school" would not feel too bad if our LCD gives up on us while we are doing a shoot. We can continue and still feel confidence enough to carry on shooting our stuff. And this is in the age of more better meter sensors then back then our old days. hehe give it a try...see how well you fair.
    Last edited by sammy888; 18th September 2007 at 09:08 PM.

  6. #46
    Senior Member Halfmoon's Avatar
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    Default Re: DSLR without LCD, Who will buy???

    Quote Originally Posted by sammy888 View Post
    Ah...hello we have been doing that for decades. "I" have been doing that since 1983 with a Nikon FG right up to my F5 way beyond the era of the DSLR. hehehe...

    Have you no confidence in your camera's ability to meter lighting for you?, Have you no condidence in your ability to use your camera and know it's capability well? Have you not spend enough time shooting with it and knowing enough about the fundamental of photography to shoot competently? heheh Try it..tape up your LCD preview screen. Go shoot. Make observations and take notes, compare them from one shot to another. Take shot in various lighting condition..etc. If you do this long enough, you find you actually shoot alot better. I am not sure about the creative part but technique wise you will see improvement and when you go back to previewing with your LCD...you find you make decision alot faster now and with that out of the way, you might start to spend more time being creative with your composure.

    I think those of us who were from the "old school" would not feel too bad if our LCD gives up on us while we are doing a shoot. We can continue and still feel confidence enough to carry on shooting our stuff. And this is in the age of more better meter sensors then back then our old days. hehe give it a try...see how well you fair.
    Old School... haha... me also from old school....

    But one difference is White Balance is a problem with digital.... Film usually do not need to worry that much right???? Me still new to DSLR....
    Art is perception; Perception is art.

  7. #47

    Default Re: DSLR without LCD, Who will buy???

    Quote Originally Posted by Halfmoon View Post
    Old School... haha... me also from old school....

    But one difference is White Balance is a problem with digital.... Film usually do not need to worry that much right???? Me still new to DSLR....
    Just set to Cloudy and shoot away. For film, it's transparent to you because the printing lab does the colour correction.

  8. #48
    Senior Member sammy888's Avatar
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    Default Re: DSLR without LCD, Who will buy???

    Quote Originally Posted by Halfmoon View Post
    Old School... haha... me also from old school....

    But one difference is White Balance is a problem with digital.... Film usually do not need to worry that much right???? Me still new to DSLR....
    Ya...so OLD SCHOOL actually less "mah fan" hahahah... well lsisaxon do have a valid point in that sometime the colour lab help you out.

    But then again..film I have to say is more generous in exposure latitude and digital is a tad not. But well that is all the interesting bits leh of discovering what your equipment can do. DSLR or SLR... film or digital RAW.

    I try to shoot raw to avoid the white balance problem lah......do post production later lor. heh. Instead of the colour lab...it would me that will have to take the time to do it which in some case is part of the fun in my view.

    White balance in the digital age of photography is still in it's "birthing" period in my view lah...in time to come...just like more advance AF is coming on to the scene...it will improve with time. We are at the pioneering stages...it is a great time to be around the last decade where we witness this transaction period....makes some great grandfather stories for the future heheheh...by then...REALLY OLD SCHOOL man! heheh

  9. #49

    Default Re: DSLR without LCD, Who will buy???

    Think the question started cos of all the hype about 40D's 3" LCD which some say doesn't quite perform as well as they would like?

    I find the question very hilarious... Cos that's like asking will you buy a car without a boot at a cheaper price?

  10. #50
    Senior Member cichlid's Avatar
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    Default Re: DSLR without LCD, Who will buy???

    I'm waiting for the day when the whole back of the camera is LCD with touch screen function

  11. #51
    Senior Member Halfmoon's Avatar
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    Default Re: DSLR without LCD, Who will buy???

    Quote Originally Posted by sammy888 View Post
    Ya...so OLD SCHOOL actually less "mah fan" hahahah... well lsisaxon do have a valid point in that sometime the colour lab help you out.

    But then again..film I have to say is more generous in exposure latitude and digital is a tad not. But well that is all the interesting bits leh of discovering what your equipment can do. DSLR or SLR... film or digital RAW.

    I try to shoot raw to avoid the white balance problem lah......do post production later lor. heh. Instead of the colour lab...it would me that will have to take the time to do it which in some case is part of the fun in my view.

    White balance in the digital age of photography is still in it's "birthing" period in my view lah...in time to come...just like more advance AF is coming on to the scene...it will improve with time. We are at the pioneering stages...it is a great time to be around the last decade where we witness this transaction period....makes some great grandfather stories for the future heheheh...by then...REALLY OLD SCHOOL man! heheh

    Hi Bro... how does shooting raw help with WB???

    Maybe it will advance and get much more forgiving results in future.... now.... I think it is still a challenge for me....
    Art is perception; Perception is art.

  12. #52
    Senior Member Halfmoon's Avatar
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    Default Re: DSLR without LCD, Who will buy???

    Quote Originally Posted by cichlid View Post
    I'm waiting for the day when the whole back of the camera is LCD with touch screen function
    Wonder how much will it cost???

    How about eye sensor unit, and activated by the eyes only???
    Art is perception; Perception is art.

  13. #53
    Senior Member Halfmoon's Avatar
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    Default Re: DSLR without LCD, Who will buy???

    Quote Originally Posted by kiwi2 View Post
    Think the question started cos of all the hype about 40D's 3" LCD which some say doesn't quite perform as well as they would like?

    I find the question very hilarious... Cos that's like asking will you buy a car without a boot at a cheaper price?
    It started as I came across some thread that some people said they do not mind buying a DSLR without LCD...... so I thought to do a poll instead....

    It is meant more for fun purpose...

    Also..... as an old timer, I felt that this would be a challenge to non-film starter... since most digital starter will never know that feeling.....

    Plus..... LCD with instant feedback has changed photography.... PRO shooter can simply just review the results instantly..... without worry about quality, while those film photographer in the olden time actually is a test of their confidence...

    I also kind of regret not indicating Old school or New school photographer in the poll... With the 22%, I suspect they are from the old school ones.....
    Art is perception; Perception is art.

  14. #54
    Senior Member sammy888's Avatar
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    Default Re: DSLR without LCD, Who will buy???

    Quote Originally Posted by Halfmoon View Post
    Hi Bro... how does shooting raw help with WB???

    Maybe it will advance and get much more forgiving results in future.... now.... I think it is still a challenge for me....
    At the name indicatee, RAW. Which means raw data. When you load it to say Photoshop, I get to select what auto WB setting should be added to the picture when it finally open in Photoshop.

    Let me try to be as laymen as I can. Usually when you shot in JPG, a few things are done to the shot you take from within your camera. With RAW, what is capture by the CCD or CMOS is capture "as it" and no compression..etc. That means all the data concerning the photo in full uncompress untouched form. Of course that means a very fat size file unlike a jpg. With so much raw data, it is more "forgiving" if you want to make changes to it unlike a strip down jpg version which all the unnessary bits are rip away. That's the short explanation lah hehe

    When you capture a JPG, the sensor first capture the image then it it sent it to another part of your camera that will convert it to jpg and use the compression setting you have chosen (Fine Normal..eg) to make the file smaller in size. Then if you have pre-selected a WB setting, it will also adjust your image's colour hue or tint as I call it before dumping it into a CF or SD card. So the camera does all the work for you from within the camera so you save on time by not having to sit at your computer doing colour adjustment and all that stuff. But do note it is not a perfect science. The camera can still get it wrong or your artistic self might not like what the camera did and want something else. So that is the problem. And that is where RAW is better.

    I would dare say that RAW is like film. It has alot more latitude for you to make more adjustment compares to a jpg image which has lot so much information that if you adjust a picture beyond certain limits it no longer looks good as those infor on those limits are no longer there. For example you shoot a scene which has bright sunlight shining cleary a garden scene but there is a sheltered patio which cast a shadow over some furnishing. Now your CCD or CMOS is sensitive enough to capture abit more details of stuff in that shadow area...but it might still be pretty dim. Now if you convert it to jpg and with the use of compression, the programming will strip off most of those details under the shadow if the colour range are about the same. By stripping those out is how your JPG can be so much smaller then a RAW or TIFF. It trys to take out as much detail and stuff that it "asume" your eyes does not see so that it can be a smaller file. Some time it does not strip away but add artifacts to it when it trys to average out "almost" similar colours or shape so you get to weird blocking stuff between contrasting lines. Okay that is the layman short bit ...hope that clears up why sometime we shoot RAW to get around WB problems...etc


    Well no matter how advance it will get, one thing is for sure as far as I can see as a photographer and someone interested in technology science. If you want more clarity and details and better colours and resolution? SIZE WILL KEEP BECOMING BIGGER for each image you shoot...not less. So maybe they might one day come out with a better WB but then again maybe nothing beats the human eye and your mind's eye on judging WB or creativity...etc. It is just a tool and as such you are still the driver. If the technology can do it all for you..then you are not required heheheh
    Last edited by sammy888; 20th September 2007 at 12:26 PM.

  15. #55
    Senior Member Halfmoon's Avatar
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    Default Re: DSLR without LCD, Who will buy???

    Quote Originally Posted by sammy888 View Post
    At the name indicatee, RAW. Which means raw data. When you load it to say Photoshop, I get to select what auto WB setting should be added to the picture when it finally open in Photoshop.

    Let me try to be as laymen as I can. Usually when you shot in JPG, a few things are done to the shot you take from within your camera. With RAW, what is capture by the CCD or CMOS is capture "as it" and no compression..etc. That means all the data concerning the photo in full uncompress untouched form. Of course that means a very fat size file unlike a jpg. With so much raw data, it is more "forgiving" if you want to make changes to it unlike a strip down jpg version which all the unnessary bits are rip away. That's the short explanation lah hehe

    When you capture a JPG, the sensor first capture the image then it it sent it to another part of your camera that will convert it to jpg and use the compression setting you have chosen (Fine Normal..eg) to make the file smaller in size. Then if you have pre-selected a WB setting, it will also adjust your image's colour hue or tint as I call it before dumping it into a CF or SD card. So the camera does all the work for you from within the camera so you save on time by not having to sit at your computer doing colour adjustment and all that stuff. But do note it is not a perfect science. The camera can still get it wrong or your artistic self might not like what the camera did and want something else. So that is the problem. And that is where RAW is better.

    I would dare say that RAW is like film. It has alot more latitude for you to make more adjustment compares to a jpg image which has lot so much information that if you adjust a picture beyond certain limits it no longer looks good as those infor on those limits are no longer there. For example you shoot a scene which has bright sunlight shining cleary a garden scene but there is a sheltered patio which cast a shadow over some furnishing. Now your CCD or CMOS is sensitive enough to capture abit more details of stuff in that shadow area...but it might still be pretty dim. Now if you convert it to jpg and with the use of compression, the programming will strip off most of those details under the shadow if the colour range are about the same. By stripping those out is how your JPG can be so much smaller then a RAW or TIFF. It trys to take out as much detail and stuff that it "asume" your eyes does not see so that it can be a smaller file. Some time it does not strip away but add artifacts to it when it trys to average out "almost" similar colours or shape so you get to weird blocking stuff between contrasting lines. Okay that is the layman short bit ...hope that clears up why sometime we shoot RAW to get around WB problems...etc


    Well no matter how advance it will get, one thing is for sure as far as I can see as a photographer and someone interested in technology science. If you want more clarity and details and better colours and resolution? SIZE WILL KEEP BECOMING BIGGER for each image you shoot...not less. So maybe they might one day come out with a better WB but then again maybe nothing beats the human eye and your mind's eye on judging WB or creativity...etc. It is just a tool and as such you are still the driver. If the technology can do it all for you..then you are not required heheheh
    Thanks Bro Sammy for your explanation.... I am still trying to master WB.....

    But RAW image size is HUGE!!!!

    I need more HD space and CF card to shoot RAW.... I am still learning on editing images.... hope I can get a hang of it soon.. maybe will get elements sometime soon...
    Art is perception; Perception is art.

  16. #56
    Senior Member sammy888's Avatar
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    Default Re: DSLR without LCD, Who will buy???

    Quote Originally Posted by Halfmoon View Post
    Thanks Bro Sammy for your explanation.... I am still trying to master WB.....

    But RAW image size is HUGE!!!!

    I need more HD space and CF card to shoot RAW.... I am still learning on editing images.... hope I can get a hang of it soon.. maybe will get elements sometime soon...

    No problem...have fun experimenting with RAW and also with JPEG. Though the latter might not have enough latitude for you to make much changes ..etc, it will also give you a good idea as to what those limits are so that it gives you a good balance ideal of when you CAN STILL GET AWAY with shooting in Jpg instead of RAW to save space or just plain lazy like I am at times heheh...

  17. #57

    Default Re: DSLR without LCD, Who will buy???

    if no LCD but cheaper by 1K then i buy. wahaha..

  18. #58
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    Default Re: DSLR without LCD, Who will buy???

    Edited.

  19. #59
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    Default Re: DSLR without LCD, Who will buy???

    This post here is more like a kopitiam thread and is of not much use here. Thread closed.

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