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Thread: ST Forum: Can't one take photos in MRT stations?

  1. #161

    Default Re: ST Forum: Can't one take photos in MRT stations?

    Quote Originally Posted by eikin View Post
    personally i've been asked to be checked for the equipment i carry myself at some stations a couple of times, in all cases the staff have been polite and respectful with no trouble at all.

    i can only say things work both ways, if you want to blow things up, things will blow up for you, or blow you up. what we've read are all one sided accounts, we don't know how these persons have reacted, their seemingly violent/uncooperative reactions could very well have triggered what came after them. that's just too bad.

    you seem to have a wierd interest in painting a bad image of SMRT staff, treating them like hideous bogeymen always ready to come after you. i hope you don't belong to the group of population who need to use the SMRT trains daily, if not i cannot imagine the kind of trauma you will likely experience everytime you pass by the station control. anyway if you want, go ahead and blow the whole matter up, go ahead and challenge them. as far as i see, it's just a couple of people trying to stir storms in a teacup.
    Eikin, FYI, I was polite to answer em. But it's so irritating when the station manager went in to the bus i boarded. And asked me (when I was ALREADY INSIDE THE BUS) to come with him to the station.

    What would you do if you're on my situation ?
    ahandre (using Nikon & Sony Ericsson)
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  2. #162
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    Default Re: ST Forum: Can't one take photos in MRT stations?

    Quote Originally Posted by ahandre View Post
    Eikin, FYI, I was polite to answer em. But it's so irritating when the station manager went in to the bus i boarded. And asked me (when I was ALREADY INSIDE THE BUS) to come with him to the station.

    What would you do if you're on my situation ?
    I really think the only way to stop this kind of ridiculous paranoid behaviour is to write your story in the newspapers, there is no use writing it here as there will be no reaction from the involved parties in Clubsnap......

    I can understand the no photography rule INSIDE the MRT grounds as those can be conceived as 'private property'. But when you are outside the MRT grounds, there is no law that can stop you from taking pics. This is why it is important not to go with them to the control station as you can not prove anymore that you were outside their grounds....

    I am not sure about Singapore (it looks like they have), but many countries have rules against photographing airports, railwaystations, harbours for security reasons (which I think is obvious and we must respect)......

    HS

  3. #163

    Default Re: ST Forum: Can't one take photos in MRT stations?

    Quote Originally Posted by hongsien View Post
    I really think the only way to stop this kind of ridiculous paranoid behaviour is to write your story in the newspapers, there is no use writing it here as there will be no reaction from the involved parties in Clubsnap......

    I can understand the no photography rule INSIDE the MRT grounds as those can be conceived as 'private property'. But when you are outside the MRT grounds, there is no law that can stop you from taking pics. This is why it is important not to go with them to the control station as you can not prove anymore that you were outside their grounds....

    I am not sure about Singapore (it looks like they have), but many countries have rules against photographing airports, railwaystations, harbours for security reasons (which I think is obvious and we must respect)......

    HS
    Hongsien, thanks for the suggestion, but I promised not to pursue the matter anymore, just to let off my steam and kinda inform people here that officials here seems like to abuse their power (in fact some of em try to show as if they have power when they have none - out of their jurisdiction).

    And their act also disturb other (for example : the station manager asked the bus driver - it was a free shuttle bus from Great World City - to not leave until the matter settled (that is : until I come outta bus).
    ahandre (using Nikon & Sony Ericsson)
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  4. #164

    Default Re: ST Forum: Can't one take photos in MRT stations?

    Quote Originally Posted by hongsien View Post
    I really think the only way to stop this kind of ridiculous paranoid behaviour is to write your story in the newspapers, there is no use writing it here as there will be no reaction from the involved parties in Clubsnap......

    I can understand the no photography rule INSIDE the MRT grounds as those can be conceived as 'private property'. But when you are outside the MRT grounds, there is no law that can stop you from taking pics. This is why it is important not to go with them to the control station as you can not prove anymore that you were outside their grounds....

    I am not sure about Singapore (it looks like they have), but many countries have rules against photographing airports, railwaystations, harbours for security reasons (which I think is obvious and we must respect)......

    HS
    Hongsien, thanks for the suggestion, but I promised not to pursue the matter anymore, just to let off my steam and kinda inform people here that officials here seems like to abuse their power (in fact some of em try to show as if they have power when they have none - out of their jurisdiction).

    And their act also disturb other (for example : the station manager asked the bus driver - it was a free shuttle bus from Great World City - to not leave until the matter settled (that is : until I came outta bus).
    ahandre (using Nikon & Sony Ericsson)
    MyFlickr-Ahandre

  5. #165
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    Default Re: ST Forum: Can't one take photos in MRT stations?

    Quote Originally Posted by Godzilla Invades View Post
    This morning was at the Harbour Front MRT control station. As usual, the morning crowd is usually crowded. My appointment was 9.00am nearby the control station. I arrived, at 8.15am. So I was early and busy playing with my PSP. I was carrying a Computrekker as well and stood nearby the control station.

    At 8.30am, 2 MRT staff approach me and told me why am I loitering around. I explain to them nicely that I was early and waiting for a friend which is coming at 9.00am. They asked me to leave the place as I was loitering the control station for more than 10mins. Clearly thereI was like busy playing my PSP and they could see me very clearly I was waiting for someone.

    Now who the hell wants to stay in the MRT station? Silly right? So I offered them my IC, check my bag and check my body if they need to. They say no need. I wanted to stayed on but they say I cannot. At that point, I was getting annoyed with this young punk security and I again offer my identification and check my bag.

    So another uncle security came and ask me what's the problem. I ask him where is the sign on "NO LOITERING IN THE CONTROL STATION?" He said they don't put it up but it's part of their so call "Security Measure". So they LL, they walk away as I insist on staying to wait for my friend.

    I insisted on staying until 9.00am which my friend came. When the time reach 9.00am. I went to the control station and show to them "HERE IS MY FRIEND and it's 9.00am sharp!"

    This security in Singapore is getting from bad to worst. Sure we need their protection for us to be safe in our rides but incident like that is pretty silly. Sad
    Naughty you! :-)
    I think I can understand their point of view for this one: if you go to City Hal on a Friday evening or Saturday evening, you will see the good points to have a rule like this.....

    There will be hundreds of people just standing there waiting for friends, but by doing this they block the exits from the MRT!......Just try to get out of that stations during those periods and you will see yourself

    I am not sure if the Harbourfront was very crowded when you were there, but it could have been due to this happening at a few stations that has a big crowd......

    HS

  6. #166
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    Default Re: ST Forum: Can't one take photos in MRT stations?

    Quote Originally Posted by ahandre View Post
    I still keep the Bomb Squad namecard.
    Why did he give his namecard to you? He was interested in you? he he he :-)

  7. #167

    Default Re: ST Forum: Can't one take photos in MRT stations?

    Quote Originally Posted by hongsien View Post
    Why did he give his namecard to you? He was interested in you? he he he :-)
    coz I asked him, for precaution if anything happen after that which require me to name 'em. I also noted down Station manager's, SMRT staff's, and police's names (two of six men).

    According to the name card, he works @ Bomb & Explosives Investigation Division - Criminal Investigation Department. POWER ???
    ahandre (using Nikon & Sony Ericsson)
    MyFlickr-Ahandre

  8. #168

    Default Re: ST Forum: Can't one take photos in MRT stations?

    Quote Originally Posted by hongsien View Post
    Naughty you! :-)
    I think I can understand their point of view for this one: if you go to City Hal on a Friday evening or Saturday evening, you will see the good points to have a rule like this.....

    There will be hundreds of people just standing there waiting for friends, but by doing this they block the exits from the MRT!......Just try to get out of that stations during those periods and you will see yourself

    I am not sure if the Harbourfront was very crowded when you were there, but it could have been due to this happening at a few stations that has a big crowd......

    HS
    hmm..talking about obstructions... and nowadays you see tables and chairs setup for dunno credit card promotion, insurance or whatever it is next to the control station .. and those guys are standing in the middle of the crowd stopping people.. aren't they causing more problems?

  9. #169
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    Default Re: ST Forum: Can't one take photos in MRT stations?

    Quote Originally Posted by mystudio View Post
    hmm..talking about obstructions... and nowadays you see tables and chairs setup for dunno credit card promotion, insurance or whatever it is next to the control station .. and those guys are standing in the middle of the crowd stopping people.. aren't they causing more problems?
    At which station are they having their table NEXT to the control station? Haven't seen that, I did notice some at the outer areas further away from the control stations, like in Little India or Sengkang (their booth is in the bus waiting area)

  10. #170

    Default Re: ST Forum: Can't one take photos in MRT stations?

    Quote Originally Posted by hongsien View Post
    Naughty you! :-)
    I think I can understand their point of view for this one: if you go to City Hal on a Friday evening or Saturday evening, you will see the good points to have a rule like this.....

    There will be hundreds of people just standing there waiting for friends, but by doing this they block the exits from the MRT!......Just try to get out of that stations during those periods and you will see yourself

    I am not sure if the Harbourfront was very crowded when you were there, but it could have been due to this happening at a few stations that has a big crowd......

    HS
    Why you all keep talking about obstruction and so on? Would you stand in a middle of a passage way when all the passengers making their way out of the station? I am not that silly to stand in the way that will obstruct the flow of the morning crowd.

    City Hall and Raffles Place are 2 prime examples when you see crowds but then again the station is big enough to accomodate a large crowd. There is always a higher percentage passengers will meet at nearby the control station. I do not see anything wrong doing that.

    Again I would like to repeat myself, if I was obstructing traffic it's my fault. I would just move on.

    Second, I was minding my own business playing PSP when they ask me to leave because I was loitering more than 10 mins.

    Third, I did offer them to search my bag and show them my identification but they refuse.

    Fourth, there is no sign stating you can't stand in an MRT station loitering. I would not want to wait to long either as it's just an MRT station. It is a rather boring place to wait but when an appointment is made, why should I change? Isn't it easier to wait for someone in a MRT station when some MRT stations have more than 6 exits......

    It's not that I am trying to be funny with them but it's them trying to be funny with me. I have wrote to newspaper ST forum and to SMRT itself but it seems they are ignoring my emails. Avoiding me? Maybe?

  11. #171

    Default Re: ST Forum: Can't one take photos in MRT stations?

    Quote Originally Posted by hongsien View Post
    At which station are they having their table NEXT to the control station? Haven't seen that, I did notice some at the outer areas further away from the control stations, like in Little India or Sengkang (their booth is in the bus waiting area)
    Orchard Road MRT station lar.......seems you have not been to Orchard for sometime.

    Toa Payoh Central is another prime example.

  12. #172
    vince123123
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    Default Re: ST Forum: Can't one take photos in MRT stations?

    I think we have to do self help also. Writing to papers may or may not help. I tried to write in and my letter was rejected .

    I think there's a lot of point to writing here. Because next time a fellow CS-er encounters this, they can rememebr what we said here about their rights and give SMRT a good substantive rebuttal instead of feeling lost or confused or disoriented, which is likely for first time encounters.

    Quote Originally Posted by hongsien View Post
    I really think the only way to stop this kind of ridiculous paranoid behaviour is to write your story in the newspapers, there is no use writing it here as there will be no reaction from the involved parties in Clubsnap......

    I can understand the no photography rule INSIDE the MRT grounds as those can be conceived as 'private property'. But when you are outside the MRT grounds, there is no law that can stop you from taking pics. This is why it is important not to go with them to the control station as you can not prove anymore that you were outside their grounds....

    I am not sure about Singapore (it looks like they have), but many countries have rules against photographing airports, railwaystations, harbours for security reasons (which I think is obvious and we must respect)......

    HS

  13. #173
    vince123123
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    Default Re: ST Forum: Can't one take photos in MRT stations?

    Well done I can see some of our advice are being slowly followed.

    Quote Originally Posted by ahandre View Post
    coz I asked him, for precaution if anything happen after that which require me to name 'em. I also noted down Station manager's, SMRT staff's, and police's names (two of six men).

    According to the name card, he works @ Bomb & Explosives Investigation Division - Criminal Investigation Department. POWER ???

  14. #174

    Default Re: ST Forum: Can't one take photos in MRT stations?

    Quote Originally Posted by hongsien View Post
    At which station are they having their table NEXT to the control station? Haven't seen that, I did notice some at the outer areas further away from the control stations, like in Little India or Sengkang (their booth is in the bus waiting area)
    Boon Keng, Chinatown, Dhoby Ghaut (exit to PS)... good for them.. can make extra money by leasing out the place

  15. #175
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    Default Re: ST Forum: Can't one take photos in MRT stations?

    Quote Originally Posted by vince123123 View Post
    I believe that I'm sure of my own belief and do not need anyone to tell me. If I'm unsure, I would ask myself and not you. You have been asking me to demonstrate with actions - do I need to prove myself to you? I have already tried on other occassions myself with an analogous situation with security guards and successfully resisted their attempts at trying to create new laws or enforce rights they do not have

    I do not normally shoot MRT stations, which is why I have yet to encounter such a situation. If you wish to know the results, stage your own test - I'm pretty sure of the position in law.

    You assume that I have an interest in painting SMRT in hideous light - unfortunately, your assumption is wrongly placed. I have an interest in anyone who seeks to overstep their boundaries in law, and attempt to prey on people's ignorance to try to enforce rights they do not have on them, SMRT included, as well as others falling in a similar class.

    Speaking for one's rights do not have to entail blowing things up or taking a rude/violent or aggressive stance. It is easy to enforce rights even maintaining a firm and polite approach, and those who start getting violent or abusive will be the first people to face criminal sanctions.

    One man's meat is another man's poison - what may be important to them may not be to you, and vice versa. I don't know why you have been consistently putting these complainants down - are you trying to paint these MRT shooting photographers in a hideous bogeymen?
    well, you just need to look at someone who like to talk about having ridiculous mass gatherings at MRT stations just to demonstrate some rights, i'll say don't go waste others time with nonsensical ideas.

  16. #176
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    Default Re: ST Forum: Can't one take photos in MRT stations?

    Quote Originally Posted by ahandre View Post
    Eikin, FYI, I was polite to answer em. But it's so irritating when the station manager went in to the bus i boarded. And asked me (when I was ALREADY INSIDE THE BUS) to come with him to the station.

    What would you do if you're on my situation ?
    like i said, i've been checked before, and i believe MRT staffs, like any other normal persons, do not behave condescendingly unnecessarily. you said the staff bugged you, can you be sure you were being cooperative as well? if you feel the need, like some people said, just call the police

  17. #177
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    Default Re: free la just sharing ....

    Quote Originally Posted by Godzilla Invades View Post
    Yeah and there is only one person on this thread is somewhat swimming against the current.......so many of us have encounter various security problems but he does not seem to be convince on the actions of the security personnels taking things into their own hands.

    Yes they have the right to be more alert but it does not need to be during the 9/11 to be extra alert. Silly right? There is 365 days a year but only super alert during the 9/11 seems to be a silly thought.

    Again if someone wants to be funny, no one can stop them.
    well, if you're talking about me, yes i don't believe that security personnels overstep their areas of duty unnecessarily. you call yours a security problem? i'll say it's your imagination.

    one thing i notice in singapore anyway, people take being approached by security personnels as something that's shameful and embarrassing, and always want to bear some grudges for being checked. ask yourself if this is not true? people will always think of themselves as the ultimate rights owner and any behaviour that questions them as insults, but hardly make any consideration for others nor having any broader perspective.

    if there's anything i'm even more against, it'll be the extremely narrow perspectives some people here like to promote in this forum. instead of promoting cooperative behaviours, the talk here just surrounds endlessly over self-centered bitching over rights and legal jurisdiction. it's always ''my rights,'' ''my freedom,'' ''call the police,'' ''i'm lawful and you're not etc.'' such is not the formula for work towards sensible solutions nor behaviour of a civilised society.
    Last edited by eikin; 10th September 2007 at 06:18 AM.

  18. #178

    Default Re: ST Forum: Can't one take photos in MRT stations?

    Quote Originally Posted by eikin View Post
    like i said, i've been checked before, and i believe MRT staffs, like any other normal persons, do not behave condescendingly unnecessarily. you said the staff bugged you, can you be sure you were being cooperative as well? if you feel the need, like some people said, just call the police
    Yes, the staff bugged me by asking unnecessarily, but I answered their questions. I also mentioned on previous posts that I even showed my pictures to Station manager upon request. And he saw them all. After that I boarded the bus (of coz after he finished looking at my pictures). For me, this is already cooperative, not sure how can I be more cooperative (you may tell me your thinking).

    From your post above, I understand that if you're on my situation, you'd call the police. Man, just look at what the police (and bomb squad) did on this particular case.

    I welcome healthy discussion.
    ahandre (using Nikon & Sony Ericsson)
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  19. #179
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    Default Re: ST Forum: Can't one take photos in MRT stations?

    Quote Originally Posted by ahandre View Post
    Yes, the staff bugged me by asking unnecessarily, but I answered their questions. I also mentioned on previous posts that I even showed my pictures to Station manager upon request. And he saw them all. After that I boarded the bus (of coz after he finished looking at my pictures). For me, this is already cooperative, not sure how can I be more cooperative (you may tell me your thinking).

    From your post above, I understand that if you're on my situation, you'd call the police. Man, just look at what the police (and bomb squad) did on this particular case.

    I welcome healthy discussion.
    call the police? well i don't subscribe to methods suggested by some extreme thinking people around here, i don't see the need to unless you find it effective. like i mentioned, not the first time security personnels have asked to check my equipment, and none of the cases were as bizarre as how you've described it.

    none of us here was there with you, none here can be a good judge of your situation. if you feel so needing to claim your rights of the matter, you can always continue writing letters to the media demanding explanation and apology. last i remember someone also provided a link to free of charge legal advice services http://forums.clubsnap.org/showpost....4&postcount=26 it'll be better seeking advices from qualified experts than letting off steam in internet forums, where the latter usually attracts misleading feedback from parties who are not in the know.

    for the rest, you can just ask yourself, how do you feel or react

    > when requested to be shown the pictures you've taken
    > when requested to have your particulars taken down

    end of the day MRT staffs need to do their job, just be patient and cooperate, no one stands to lose. as much as i see the MRT staffs need to have their part of responsibilities covered, i don't see any need for them to come after you if they have enough information taken down. other than the salaries they earn, they don't do this job for themselves or to show power. errant behaviours are not tolerated, but there's no need to stereotype every single person related as your public enemy.
    Last edited by eikin; 10th September 2007 at 07:39 AM.

  20. #180
    vince123123
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    Default Re: ST Forum: Can't one take photos in MRT stations?

    I guess when someone steps on your own rights, you may be singing a different tune. It could be that you take a cavalier attitude towards shooting of MRT stations, but if it affects something you think is important to you, I'm sure you will be taking a different approach.

    Just because you do not think its important to shoot MRT stations does not mean others do not either. When it comes to things of your interest, I'm pretty sure you won't be allowing it to lapse easily without ensuring or checking on the legalities of the matter. You are only dismissing legalities discussions or enforcement of rights, or denouncing of overstepping of rights here because you do not have a personal interest in the subject matter, not so much the legal discussion and/or enforcement of rights or denouncing of overstepping of rights.

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