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Thread: ST Forum: Can't one take photos in MRT stations?

  1. #61

    Default Re: ST Forum: Can't one take photos in MRT stations?

    Quote Originally Posted by vince123123 View Post
    Well, by the time the cops come, probably you're gone already.

    Also, its questionable whether the cops have a right to force you to disclose your particulars. That said, if its a cop, its probably better to give, and also take down HIS particulars (rank name serial number etc) so that you can investigate further later on.

    If it is an MRT staff asking, I'll probably ask him to go fly a kite.
    the cops definitely have the right to ask u to furnish your particulars. failing which they can bring u back to ascertain ur particulars.

    NATIONAL REGISTRATION ACT
    (CHAPTER 201)


    Arrest and search.
    16.
    (1) Where any person

    (a) is reasonably suspected by a registration officer or police officer of the commission of any offence under this Act or any regulations made thereunder; or

    (b) on demand by a registration officer or a police officer

    (i) does not give his name and address;

    (ii) gives a name or address which the officer has reason to believe is false; or

    (iii) gives as his address a place outside Singapore,

    that person may be arrested without warrant by the registration officer or police officer.

    anyway like wad u said, if take outside, no one knows what u taking anyway. u can say u taking pic of a bird or what.

  2. #62
    vince123123
    Guests

    Default Re: ST Forum: Can't one take photos in MRT stations?

    Ah this is interesting, something I didn't know. Let me read it up hehe

    Thanks for the research - I'm glad that such discussions bring up things that are new and useful to me, and to those who don't know it.

    Quote Originally Posted by boredphuck View Post
    the cops definitely have the right to ask u to furnish your particulars. failing which they can bring u back to ascertain ur particulars.

    NATIONAL REGISTRATION ACT
    (CHAPTER 201)


    Arrest and search.
    16.
    (1) Where any person

    (a) is reasonably suspected by a registration officer or police officer of the commission of any offence under this Act or any regulations made thereunder; or

    (b) on demand by a registration officer or a police officer

    (i) does not give his name and address;

    (ii) gives a name or address which the officer has reason to believe is false; or

    (iii) gives as his address a place outside Singapore,

    that person may be arrested without warrant by the registration officer or police officer.

    anyway like wad u said, if take outside, no one knows what u taking anyway. u can say u taking pic of a bird or what.

  3. #63

    Default Re: ST Forum: Can't one take photos in MRT stations?

    Quote Originally Posted by vince123123 View Post
    Ah this is interesting, something I didn't know. Let me read it up hehe

    Thanks for the research - I'm glad that such discussions bring up things that are new and useful to me, and to those who don't know it.
    i think its good to know your rights and the powers of our authorities.

  4. #64
    vince123123
    Guests

    Default Re: ST Forum: Can't one take photos in MRT stations?

    Following from your research, I also found out a few more interesting nuggets of information:

    National Registration Regulations made under Section 19

    Officers who may require production of identity cards
    7. (1) Any registration officer, immigration officer, police officer, officer of customs, officer of the Central Narcotics Bureau or Special Investigator of the Corrupt Practices Investigation Bureau (referred to in this regulation as the inspecting officer) and any other officer or class or description of officer authorised in writing in that behalf by the Commissioner, may at any time require any person (not being a person exempted from registration under regulation 22) to produce his identity card for inspection, or to produce it within such time to such person and at such place as the officer requiring its production may think fit.

    (2) An inspecting officer may retain any identity card for the purpose of investigations.

    This expands the scope of the original main Act which only provides for the provision of name and address, but not the actual production of or retention of identity cards.

    Interestingly, I cannot find any reported case of anyone convicted for failing to produce an identity card for inspection. That however doesn't mean that no one is actually convicted. :P

  5. #65
    vince123123
    Guests

    Default Re: ST Forum: Can't one take photos in MRT stations?

    Yeap of course Unfortunately however, there are some people here that get defensive whenever I ask them to substantiate their opinions on the law by providing authorities or references.

    It is through these discussions that we get to learn more and know more

    Quote Originally Posted by boredphuck View Post
    i think its good to know your rights and the powers of our authorities.

  6. #66

    Default Re: ST Forum: Can't one take photos in MRT stations?

    Last year I was at HarbourFront MRT. Took some photographs, and the staff promptly appeared to take down my particulars and said, if I still wish to continue, I have to speak to his supervisor to seek approval.

    The authority need to be more transparent in enforcing such restrictions. Put up prominent signs at prominent locations to inform the public that phototaking is not allowed in MRT stations. And not only take down the particulars of locals with DSLRs. What about foreigners and those using PnS ?

    I'm in for the mass phototaking at MRT station. Maybe we should all set up our tripods. Photographers , Memory card of 2gb load and ready.
    Own time own time carry on.

  7. #67

    Default Re: ST Forum: Can't one take photos in MRT stations?

    1. MRT staff are not "authorities". SMRT is a public listed corporation, not a government agency! So is SBS Transit. Hence, they have no statutory powers to demand anything from you, including your particulars.

    2. I would say, however, that getting a whole troop of photographers with tripods into an MRT station to take pictures would probably backfire on us. At the very least, we would easily be perceived as being a nuisance, blocking passenger flow, etc. I would expect the SMRT staff would call the Police MRT unit for assistance if we refused to cease and desist after their requests. And if we refused to obey police instructions to disperse, they could try various things on us, eg. unlawful assembly, being a public nuisance, etc. Local media would always prefer to side with the "authorities" rather than the citizenry in cases of civil liberties, not to mention civil disobedience. The public will then end up with a worse impression of photographers and a greater misunderstanding of photographers' rights than when we started.

    This is why I say the whole thing is lame.


    Quote Originally Posted by stonefish35 View Post
    Last year I was at HarbourFront MRT. Took some photographs, and the staff promptly appeared to take down my particulars and said, if I still wish to continue, I have to speak to his supervisor to seek approval.

    The authority need to be more transparent in enforcing such restrictions. Put up prominent signs at prominent locations to inform the public that phototaking is not allowed in MRT stations. And not only take down the particulars of locals with DSLRs. What about foreigners and those using PnS ?

    I'm in for the mass phototaking at MRT station. Maybe we should all set up our tripods. Photographers , Memory card of 2gb load and ready.
    Own time own time carry on.

  8. #68

    Default Re: ST Forum: Can't one take photos in MRT stations?

    Quote Originally Posted by boredphuck View Post
    maybe u shld take a look at the sec 4 and 5 on what is defined as protected areas and places?

    Protected areas.
    4. (1) If as respects any area it appears to the Minister to be necessary or expedient that special measures should be taken to control the movements and conduct of persons therein he may by order declare that area to be a protected area for the purposes of this Act.

    (2) Any person who is in any protected area shall comply with such directions for regulating his movement and conduct as may be given by an authorised officer, and an authorised officer may search any person entering, or seeking to enter, or being in, a protected area, and may detain any such person for the purpose of searching him.

    meaning the gahment ppl can ask u to stop taking pics and if u continue to do so, u can be detain. of cos if u take liao run away he can't do anything la. maybe chase then tackle u for loitering with intent?

    (3) If any person while in a protected area fails to comply with any direction given under subsection (2), then, without prejudice to any proceedings which may be taken against him, he may be removed from the area by an authorised officer.

    Protected places.
    5. (1) If as respects any premises it appears to the Minister to be necessary or expedient that special precautions should be taken to prevent the entry therein of unauthorised persons, he may by order declare the premises to be a protected place for the purposes of this Act; and so long as the order is in force no person shall be in those premises unless he is in possession of a pass-card or permit issued by such authority or person as may be specified in the order, or has received the permission of an authorised officer on duty at those premises to enter those premises.

    (2) Where, in pursuance of this section, any person is granted permission to be in a protected place, that person shall, while acting under such permission, comply with such directions for regulating his conduct as may be given by the authority or person granting the permission; and an authorised officer, or any person authorised in that behalf by the occupier of the premises, may search any person entering, or seeking to enter, or being in, a protected place, and may detain any such person for the purpose of searching him.

    (3) If any person is in a protected place in contravention of this section, or while in such a place fails to comply with any direction given under this section, then, without prejudice to any proceedings which may be taken against him, he may be removed from the place by an authorised officer or any person authorised in that behalf by the occupier of the premises.

    (4) Pass-cards or permits issued under subsection (1) shall be in such form as may be specified in the order made under that subsection, or in such form as the authority or other person specified in the order may determine.

    oops. missed out this part. don't run hor. later kana shoot.

    Special powers in protected areas and protected places.
    9. Any person who attempts to enter or who is in a protected area or a protected place and who fails to stop after being challenged 3 times by an authorised officer to do so may be arrested by force, which force may, if necessary to effect the arrest, extend to the voluntary causing of death.
    are mrt stations declared as protected areas? i dun recall seeing any of those red signs yet leh

  9. #69

    Default Re: ST Forum: Can't one take photos in MRT stations?

    spare some thought for those working at the station... from i know from a friend who works in one of the two lines. The pay is low, and long hour shifts, and their immediate boss (not the stn manager, all of them answer to another guy in the HQ) is a workaholic elf and emphasize mostly on obedient surbodinates. The boss above this boss, probably doesnt know the condition most station staff go through, as long the graphs are positive, every year got profit, assumably everything is good and dandy.

    Station staff, if they dun warn people, they risk getting the sack or "blackmarked" by their immediate boss (normally they wont stay long), and if they do warn photographers, kena complaint, then kena again. Do or no do, also wrong. So most of them prefer sitting on the fence, especially when their already half filled ricebowl is at stake.
    One-North Explorers
    | Leave nothing but footprints, take nothing but photos |

  10. #70

    Default Re: ST Forum: Can't one take photos in MRT stations?

    Quote Originally Posted by sbs99 View Post
    spare some thought for those working at the station... from i know from a friend who works in one of the two lines. The pay is low, and long hour shifts, and their immediate boss (not the stn manager, all of them answer to another guy in the HQ) is a workaholic elf and emphasize mostly on obedient surbodinates. The boss above this boss, probably doesnt know the condition most station staff go through, as long the graphs are positive, every year got profit, assumably everything is good and dandy.

    Station staff, if they dun warn people, they risk getting the sack or "blackmarked" by their immediate boss (normally they wont stay long), and if they do warn photographers, kena complaint, then kena again. Do or no do, also wrong. So most of them prefer sitting on the fence, especially when their already half filled ricebowl is at stake.
    Sounds like a typical Singaporean run company... Very regimental like SAF.

  11. #71

    Default Re: ST Forum: Can't one take photos in MRT stations?

    i dun mean to be a wet blanket, but most people high up in top posts usually dun get to see the real picture. People in the middle usually clean up everything prim & proper so they can get the credit and are trained elfs (haa), the saikang warriors usually are forgotten, easily replaceable if they are disgruntled. You don't find a lot nice people in those mid range posts, if there are usually they go fast as well, or by luck rise up further up to the top.

    How many times do you see, an important person visiting some place or some area, everything cleaned up, neat, all swee swee. Almost everytime right? Here, we don't get the king to walk the streets to see stuff for himself, heads will definitely roll if that happens.

    In the end it usually us, the end users ourselves (and those who work on the lower rungs) killing and complaining about each other, while those above watch and rub hands with glee. Something like Sun Tzu warfare or something, bosses prefer their staff squabbling and competing among themselves, rather than happy co-operating and plotting against their boss.
    One-North Explorers
    | Leave nothing but footprints, take nothing but photos |

  12. #72

    Default Re: ST Forum: Can't one take photos in MRT stations?

    Quote Originally Posted by vince123123 View Post
    Following from your research, I also found out a few more interesting nuggets of information:

    National Registration Regulations made under Section 19

    Officers who may require production of identity cards
    7. (1) Any registration officer, immigration officer, police officer, officer of customs, officer of the Central Narcotics Bureau or Special Investigator of the Corrupt Practices Investigation Bureau (referred to in this regulation as the inspecting officer) and any other officer or class or description of officer authorised in writing in that behalf by the Commissioner, may at any time require any person (not being a person exempted from registration under regulation 22) to produce his identity card for inspection, or to produce it within such time to such person and at such place as the officer requiring its production may think fit.

    (2) An inspecting officer may retain any identity card for the purpose of investigations.

    This expands the scope of the original main Act which only provides for the provision of name and address, but not the actual production of or retention of identity cards.

    Interestingly, I cannot find any reported case of anyone convicted for failing to produce an identity card for inspection. That however doesn't mean that no one is actually convicted. :P
    cos most of the time the guy is usually trying to hide something. why convict him of nra when u can slap him with the penal code?

  13. #73
    Member Ambious's Avatar
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    Default Re: ST Forum: Can't one take photos in MRT stations?

    Quote Originally Posted by waileong View Post
    This is lame, but if CS-ers feel strongly enough, we should all bring our DSLR's to an MRT station and shoot photos together. It would be to make a statement about photography in public, similar to what the breastfeeding support group did in 2004 when the Esplanade security guards tried to stop a woman doctor from breastfeeding there during a performance on the grounds of "indecency". She wrote to the ST Forum too, and there was prominent media coverage of the 50+ women who turned up to do the mass breastfeeding, and eventually the Esplanade management had to back down and issued a statement saying that they supported breastfeeding and that it was all a misunderstanding.
    Good idea. Make it official for this outing and bigger the group, the merrier. Count me in.

  14. #74

    Default Re: ST Forum: Can't one take photos in MRT stations?

    Quote Originally Posted by sbs99 View Post
    spare some thought for those working at the station... from i know from a friend who works in one of the two lines. The pay is low, and long hour shifts, and their immediate boss (not the stn manager, all of them answer to another guy in the HQ) is a workaholic elf and emphasize mostly on obedient surbodinates. The boss above this boss, probably doesnt know the condition most station staff go through, as long the graphs are positive, every year got profit, assumably everything is good and dandy.

    Station staff, if they dun warn people, they risk getting the sack or "blackmarked" by their immediate boss (normally they wont stay long), and if they do warn photographers, kena complaint, then kena again. Do or no do, also wrong. So most of them prefer sitting on the fence, especially when their already half filled ricebowl is at stake.
    every where is the same...

  15. #75

    Default Re: ST Forum: Can't one take photos in MRT stations?

    yah... so my opinion is that, dun need to trouble each other. Can take photo, take lor. Cannot take, try again another day, or at another place. No biggie.
    One-North Explorers
    | Leave nothing but footprints, take nothing but photos |

  16. #76
    vince123123
    Guests

    Default Re: ST Forum: Can't one take photos in MRT stations?

    So convict him of what? Taking photos? :P hehehee

    Quote Originally Posted by boredphuck View Post
    cos most of the time the guy is usually trying to hide something. why convict him of nra when u can slap him with the penal code?

  17. #77

    Default Re: ST Forum: Can't one take photos in MRT stations?

    Haha I encountered this before. Was at one of the MRT stations on the North-South line (therefore SMRT, right?) taking photos with my prosumer. Which looks like a PnS. And kena the station officer, asked me to stop taking. But he didn't take down my particulars, which probably had to do with me being small and cute and not a threat or whatever.

    But the point is, even if it isn't a DSLR, they'll target you. So better play safe. I think they only do this in MRT stations, but if you're in the MRT train they can't do anything so its safer.
    Olympus Now and Forever

  18. #78

    Default Re: ST Forum: Can't one take photos in MRT stations?

    Quote Originally Posted by vince123123 View Post
    So convict him of what? Taking photos? :P hehehee
    referring to times when ppl are brought back because they can't prove their identity. not for taking pics.

  19. #79
    vince123123
    Guests

    Default Re: ST Forum: Can't one take photos in MRT stations?

    Hmm I see, which Section of the Penal Code would that fall under?

    Quote Originally Posted by boredphuck View Post
    referring to times when ppl are brought back because they can't prove their identity. not for taking pics.

  20. #80

    Default Re: ST Forum: Can't one take photos in MRT stations?

    Quote Originally Posted by vince123123 View Post
    Hmm I see, which Section of the Penal Code would that fall under?
    aiyoh. i meant bringing back ppl for nra then subsequently charging them under penal because u found more serious sh*t than not producing their nric.

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