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Thread: ST Forum: Can't one take photos in MRT stations?

  1. #41

    Default Re: ST Forum: Can't one take photos in MRT stations?

    Quote Originally Posted by vince123123 View Post
    ...or some parts of Changi Airport
    I WOULD like to inform Ms Upasna Kapoor ('Why ban photo-taking at Budget Terminal?'; ST, Aug 24) that certain operational areas of Changi Airport are gazetted as protected places under the Protected Areas and Protected Places Act. Unauthorised photo-taking of these areas, which include the aircraft parking bays and airfield roadways at the tarmac area of the Budget Terminal, is prohibited for security reasons.
    In addition, for the safety of passengers, they should not linger at the tarmac area where airport operations are under way. We thank Ms Upasna for her feedback and will consider installing signs at the Budget Terminal to increase awareness among passengers.

    Toh Boon Ngee
    Assistant Director Media Relations (covering)
    Singapore Police Force
    Lame reasons.. Anyone who wants to spy on the planes etc could get a better picture from Google Earth.. Why bother to go take themselves and risk getting identified?


    Plus if you click on the camera icons in there you get pictures shot by others also..

  2. #42
    vince123123
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    Default Re: ST Forum: Can't one take photos in MRT stations?

    If I send it, they will say that the Act is broad enough to cover any act the Minister thinks is necessary, just as you pointed out.

    Quote Originally Posted by waileong View Post
    Send it. Let the editors decide whether it's newsworthy enough. I think it is newsworthy that the govt is probably acting ultra vires even at Changi Airport.

    I must say, however, that legislation in S'pore is often broadly worded enough to empower the govt for many arbitrary actions. In this case, under the Protected Places Act, the Minister is empowered to do anything he feels is necessary. If he says no photos, who can challenge him? Even if the taking of photos itself is not illegal, he is empowered to stop you from doing it, and if you defy this order, good luck to you. We don't have the equivalent of an ACLU to fight for us ordinary citizens. Which man in the street will want to stand up for such a principle, when fighting the case in court will cost so much? And even if we win, there's no recovering all the legal expenses.

  3. #43

    Default Re: ST Forum: Can't one take photos in MRT stations?

    Writing to the press is free. Fighting a case in Court is not.

    Expose them. Expose them for their ultra vires actions.
    Last edited by waileong; 4th September 2007 at 02:25 PM.

  4. #44

    Default Re: ST Forum: Can't one take photos in MRT stations?

    i thought google earth images are 3 years behind of current building/landmark placings?
    One-North Explorers
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  5. #45

    Default Re: ST Forum: Can't one take photos in MRT stations?

    Quote Originally Posted by sbs99 View Post
    i thought google earth images are 3 years behind of current building/landmark placings?
    But most buildings don't have legs/wheels and are not that mobile.. Maybe one of the anti-terrorist measures is to start moving buildings around every 3 years to confuse them if they are really using a Google Earth image for theor operations.. hahaha... It seems like schools are probably the first to start this measure. They move like nobody's business..
    Last edited by lsisaxon; 4th September 2007 at 03:27 PM.

  6. #46
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    Default Re: ST Forum: Can't one take photos in MRT stations?

    Well, the Minister has almost unlimited powers granted to him/her under that act.
    We live in an age when unnecessary things are our only necessities. - Oscar Wilde

  7. #47

    Default Re: ST Forum: Can't one take photos in MRT stations?

    Quote Originally Posted by hongsien View Post
    Perhaps at the moment these tourist take pics, there was no staff around?

    Anyway, REAL terrorist will NOT take pics in public! They wil do it concealed.....It is something that some don't think about.....

    HS
    Terrorist scares people out of their skin and many get overly sensitive. They start to loose common CENTS.

    I guess the management thinking... SOMETHING MUST BE DONE TO SHOW THE PUBLIC WE ARE WORKING. EVEN IF IT MAKES NO SENSE AT ALL.

    Anyway who needs to take picture or photograph if they can remember the place. Terrorist ONLY DESTROY. So why do they need to take pictures (MRT etc)... additional work. OR do they need to get Experts advise to bomb the place so that there will be a certain designer black flowery shape appearing after the blow up??? including the type of fragrance or stench.

    A simple question... do you take pictures wherever you go so you won't loose your way???
    :blah: D80, Sigma 18-50/f2.8, 70-200/f2.8 (HSM).

  8. #48

    Smile Re: ST Forum: Can't one take photos in MRT stations?

    key words from smrt's reply. ..... 'we do not allow' ..... . it does not say it is an offence... . so, if you do not seek their permission, then what? what will they do?

  9. #49

    Default Re: ST Forum: Can't one take photos in MRT stations?

    So now do you believe our taxes are used to feed Pigs.
    Stop photo taking and you can stop terrorist. hahahahah.

  10. #50
    vince123123
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    Default Re: ST Forum: Can't one take photos in MRT stations?

    Exactly this is the same way that SBS said that "we authorise our bus drivers to confiscate EZ Link cards", that is not the same as the bus drivers actualyl having the right ot forcibly confiscate it if you refuse.

    Its all word play intended to give a cerrtain impression to the public, without actualyl saying the impression as that can be contradicted.

    It is also the same as the Singnet case where Singnet said "we did not consent to Odex's demands" when trying to give an impression they did not surrender. It was reported the Judge said that the pre-action discvoery application by Singnet was made with consent.

    Quote Originally Posted by reachme2003 View Post
    key words from smrt's reply. ..... 'we do not allow' ..... . it does not say it is an offence... . so, if you do not seek their permission, then what? what will they do?

  11. #51

    Default Re: ST Forum: Can't one take photos in MRT stations?

    easiest would be just take, then go.

    you don't have to announce to the whole world that you took a few shots on the train or platform.

    Don't be the one, who farted, to be the first to deny.
    One-North Explorers
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  12. #52
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    Default Re: ST Forum: Can't one take photos in MRT stations?

    Quote Originally Posted by sbs99 View Post
    easiest would be just take, then go.

    you don't have to announce to the whole world that you took a few shots on the train or platform.

    Don't be the one, who farted, to be the first to deny.
    better yet.... use camera phone. no one will care...

  13. #53

    Default Re: ST Forum: Can't one take photos in MRT stations?

    even if they allow...doesnt mean one can set up tripod, shoo everyone away and block traffic, pose hazard. (unless u represent some major corp (or pull strings), which have submitted request to have permit and approved, and have an mrt staff cordon off an area for you)

    Quote Originally Posted by lsisaxon View Post
    But most buildings don't have legs/wheels and are not that mobile.. Maybe one of the anti-terrorist measures is to start moving buildings around every 3 years to confuse them if they are really using a Google Earth image for theor operations.. hahaha... It seems like schools are probably the first to start this measure. They move like nobody's business..
    i think thats why sg progress fast....everything demolish build new one...enbloc fever. kaka
    Last edited by sbs99; 5th September 2007 at 12:36 AM.
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  14. #54
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    Default Re: ST Forum: Can't one take photos in MRT stations?

    Quote Originally Posted by sbs99 View Post
    even if they allow...doesnt mean one can set up tripod, shoo everyone away and block traffic, pose hazard. (unless u represent some major corp (or pull strings), which have submitted request to have permit and approved, and have an mrt staff cordon off an area for you)



    i think thats why sg progress fast....everything demolish build new one...enbloc fever. kaka
    like simcity 4000.

  15. #55

    Default Re: ST Forum: Can't one take photos in MRT stations?

    Quote Originally Posted by Silence Sky View Post
    So now do you believe our taxes are used to feed Pigs.
    Stop photo taking and you can stop terrorist. hahahahah.
    Aiyoh.. one of my colleagues just lodged a complaint against the police force. He spotted some kids loitering/playing at a multistorey car park, so he called the police to check on them in case they are vandals. When a police car arrived, the kids realised and started to scram via the staircase, so he called them again to ask them to radio to the patrol to go down on foot to check the staircase. They took 15 minutes before they finally parked somewhere and went down on foot. You do not need to be a genius to guess that the kids are no longer there..

    Talk about asking us to be vigilant against motorvehicle crimes... This is what you get from them if you are vigilant. Waste of time...

  16. #56
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    Default Re: ST Forum: Can't one take photos in MRT stations?

    Some people are just uptight for reasons they themselves don't even know.

    It's like the character of Sandra Bullock from the movie Crash, "i wake up every morning feeling angry...and i don't know why"

  17. #57

    Default Re: ST Forum: Can't one take photos in MRT stations?

    Quote Originally Posted by vince123123 View Post
    My Comments:

    MRT: They have not relied on any legislation which empowers them to stop people taking photographs or taking down people's particulars, much less detain or arrest anyone. They have relied on the motherhood statement "security reasons" as once any agency states "security reasons", Singaporeans would usually capitulate without asking further questions.

    Changi: They have relied on the Protected Places Act as justification.

    A review of the Protected Areas and Protected Places Act shows only this relevant Section:

    Defensive measures at protected areas and protected places.

    10. (1) It shall be lawful for the Minister to authorise the taking of such steps as he may consider necessary for the protection of any protected area or protected place, and such steps may extend to the taking of defensive measures which involve or may involve danger to the life of any person entering or attempting to enter a protected area or protected place.

    (2) Where any measures such as are referred to in subsection (1) are adopted, the Commissioner of Police or any person so authorised by the Minister in that behalf shall cause such precautions to be taken, including the prominent display of warning notices, as he considers reasonably necessary to prevent inadvertent or accidental entry into any such protected area or protected place; and where such precautions have been duly taken, no person shall be entitled to compensation or damages in respect of any injuries received or death caused as a result of any unauthorised entry into any such protected area or protected place.
    Whilst this section is worded arguably broad enough to cover everything, it is still questionable whether it extends to prohibiting photographs taken from far. From the "inclusive" (though not limited to) examples, it seems that the measures are aimed at preventing people from going into these places, including authorising the use of deadly force.

    Even if we can read the section broadly enough to cover photography taking, I suggest that the most they can do is to stop you from taking the photographs (ie under the taking of such steps necessary to protect the place). However, that does not in itself, make it an offence to take those photographs, and unless they can find some other provision in some other law making this an offence, they would not be able to prosecute the person.

    A review of the subsidiary legislation issued under the Protected Places Act doesn't seem to yield anything useful, they only talk about declaring which areas or places are covered by the Act.

    Finally, a search for reported case law interpreting the Protected Places Act, and in particular, Section 11, yields only one case in 1999 which is totally irrelevant to this discussion.
    maybe u shld take a look at the sec 4 and 5 on what is defined as protected areas and places?

    Protected areas.
    4. (1) If as respects any area it appears to the Minister to be necessary or expedient that special measures should be taken to control the movements and conduct of persons therein he may by order declare that area to be a protected area for the purposes of this Act.

    (2) Any person who is in any protected area shall comply with such directions for regulating his movement and conduct as may be given by an authorised officer, and an authorised officer may search any person entering, or seeking to enter, or being in, a protected area, and may detain any such person for the purpose of searching him.

    meaning the gahment ppl can ask u to stop taking pics and if u continue to do so, u can be detain. of cos if u take liao run away he can't do anything la. maybe chase then tackle u for loitering with intent?

    (3) If any person while in a protected area fails to comply with any direction given under subsection (2), then, without prejudice to any proceedings which may be taken against him, he may be removed from the area by an authorised officer.

    Protected places.
    5. (1) If as respects any premises it appears to the Minister to be necessary or expedient that special precautions should be taken to prevent the entry therein of unauthorised persons, he may by order declare the premises to be a protected place for the purposes of this Act; and so long as the order is in force no person shall be in those premises unless he is in possession of a pass-card or permit issued by such authority or person as may be specified in the order, or has received the permission of an authorised officer on duty at those premises to enter those premises.

    (2) Where, in pursuance of this section, any person is granted permission to be in a protected place, that person shall, while acting under such permission, comply with such directions for regulating his conduct as may be given by the authority or person granting the permission; and an authorised officer, or any person authorised in that behalf by the occupier of the premises, may search any person entering, or seeking to enter, or being in, a protected place, and may detain any such person for the purpose of searching him.

    (3) If any person is in a protected place in contravention of this section, or while in such a place fails to comply with any direction given under this section, then, without prejudice to any proceedings which may be taken against him, he may be removed from the place by an authorised officer or any person authorised in that behalf by the occupier of the premises.

    (4) Pass-cards or permits issued under subsection (1) shall be in such form as may be specified in the order made under that subsection, or in such form as the authority or other person specified in the order may determine.

    oops. missed out this part. don't run hor. later kana shoot.

    Special powers in protected areas and protected places.
    9. Any person who attempts to enter or who is in a protected area or a protected place and who fails to stop after being challenged 3 times by an authorised officer to do so may be arrested by force, which force may, if necessary to effect the arrest, extend to the voluntary causing of death.

  18. #58
    vince123123
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    Default Re: ST Forum: Can't one take photos in MRT stations?

    Nope, I didn't miss those Sections, already considered and dismissed.

    I am considering the position where you are taking photographs OF the MRT station OUTSIDE the MRT Station, ie from a public road.

    I am not considering taking photographs of the protected place INSIDE the protected place as I am well aware that that is an offence.

    Quote Originally Posted by boredphuck View Post
    maybe u shld take a look at the sec 4 and 5 on what is defined as protected areas and places?

    Protected areas.
    4. (1) If as respects any area it appears to the Minister to be necessary or expedient that special measures should be taken to control the movements and conduct of persons therein he may by order declare that area to be a protected area for the purposes of this Act.

    (2) Any person who is in any protected area shall comply with such directions for regulating his movement and conduct as may be given by an authorised officer, and an authorised officer may search any person entering, or seeking to enter, or being in, a protected area, and may detain any such person for the purpose of searching him.

    meaning the gahment ppl can ask u to stop taking pics and if u continue to do so, u can be detain. of cos if u take liao run away he can't do anything la. maybe chase then tackle u for loitering with intent?

    (3) If any person while in a protected area fails to comply with any direction given under subsection (2), then, without prejudice to any proceedings which may be taken against him, he may be removed from the area by an authorised officer.

    Protected places.
    5. (1) If as respects any premises it appears to the Minister to be necessary or expedient that special precautions should be taken to prevent the entry therein of unauthorised persons, he may by order declare the premises to be a protected place for the purposes of this Act; and so long as the order is in force no person shall be in those premises unless he is in possession of a pass-card or permit issued by such authority or person as may be specified in the order, or has received the permission of an authorised officer on duty at those premises to enter those premises.

    (2) Where, in pursuance of this section, any person is granted permission to be in a protected place, that person shall, while acting under such permission, comply with such directions for regulating his conduct as may be given by the authority or person granting the permission; and an authorised officer, or any person authorised in that behalf by the occupier of the premises, may search any person entering, or seeking to enter, or being in, a protected place, and may detain any such person for the purpose of searching him.

    (3) If any person is in a protected place in contravention of this section, or while in such a place fails to comply with any direction given under this section, then, without prejudice to any proceedings which may be taken against him, he may be removed from the place by an authorised officer or any person authorised in that behalf by the occupier of the premises.

    (4) Pass-cards or permits issued under subsection (1) shall be in such form as may be specified in the order made under that subsection, or in such form as the authority or other person specified in the order may determine.

    oops. missed out this part. don't run hor. later kana shoot.

    Special powers in protected areas and protected places.
    9. Any person who attempts to enter or who is in a protected area or a protected place and who fails to stop after being challenged 3 times by an authorised officer to do so may be arrested by force, which force may, if necessary to effect the arrest, extend to the voluntary causing of death.

  19. #59

    Default Re: ST Forum: Can't one take photos in MRT stations?

    Quote Originally Posted by vince123123 View Post
    Nope, I didn't miss those Sections, already considered and dismissed.

    I am considering the position where you are taking photographs OF the MRT station OUTSIDE the MRT Station, ie from a public road.

    I am not considering taking photographs of the protected place INSIDE the protected place as I am well aware that that is an offence.
    oh. ok. if u taking photos from outside, i guess they can't do anything. but knowing singaporeans, someone will call the cops if they find tat u are fishy n the cops will take down your particulars.

  20. #60
    vince123123
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    Default Re: ST Forum: Can't one take photos in MRT stations?

    Well, by the time the cops come, probably you're gone already.

    Also, its questionable whether the cops have a right to force you to disclose your particulars. That said, if its a cop, its probably better to give, and also take down HIS particulars (rank name serial number etc) so that you can investigate further later on.

    If it is an MRT staff asking, I'll probably ask him to go fly a kite.

    Quote Originally Posted by boredphuck View Post
    oh. ok. if u taking photos from outside, i guess they can't do anything. but knowing singaporeans, someone will call the cops if they find tat u are fishy n the cops will take down your particulars.

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