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Thread: keep our money, forced us to buy

  1. #1

    Default keep our money, forced us to buy

    first they raise the minimum sum, tie up our money even longer.

    now even make it compulsory for all to buy annuities which pay out $250-$300 a month as reported. Just another excuse to let the insurance company earn our money. And the insure is likely NT*&

    whats up with these people, trying to run our life? $250-$300 a month ,assuming you are 30 years old now, 30 years down the road, this will be 'kacang putih' money

    booooo!!!

  2. #2

    Default Re: keep our money, forced us to buy

    http://sciencecareers.sciencemag.org...e/(parent)/158

    Postgraduate Education in Singapore--A Remarkable Experience
    Zhang Wei
    Singapore
    4 October 2002

    Traditionally, scholars from China head west to receive their higher education. Going to Singapore instead is a very recent phenomenon among Chinese students that began to gain popularity in the 1990s. I consider myself lucky to be among one of the earliest batches of China's students to come to Singapore for their postgraduate education.

    What led me to Singapore? Well, there are three major reasons. Firstly, Singapore's excellent universities offer an education comparable to some of the best universities in the world and at a much more affordable cost. Secondly, Singapore is just a few hours flight from my home, which makes it very convenient for me to travel to and fro. Thirdly, Singapore, in which more than two-thirds of the population is of Chinese descent, is an easy place for Chinese-speaking students like me to adapt to.

    My first impression when I touched down at the Changi International Airport was "Wow, what an orderly, efficient, and clean place!" In fact, that impression has not changed much since! I still marvel at the way the country keeps itself at its best through the years. In fact, I have realized that Singaporeans are the most compliant people I have encountered so far! In a way, that makes Singapore one of the best places for foreign students like me.

    At the National University of Singapore, where I spent three most memorable years, I enjoyed a very fulfilling life, both academically and socially. Campus life is very much like that at universities in China. Although I opted for off-campus accommodation, I spent most of my time on the campus and found myself very much a part of the campus community. Facilities for recreation are fantastic. Often, after a day's hard work, my colleagues and me would gather together for a game of table tennis or badminton, followed by a cool dip in the swimming pool.

    The university takes good care of its foreign postgraduate students. Students from non-English backgrounds are given special coaching in the English language, something that has helped me very much. Having been educated in the Chinese medium in China, it was hard for me to suddenly switch to using English immediately. Fortunately, my supervisors and most of my Singaporean colleagues speak Mandarin. And in the laboratory, my supervisors and colleagues did their best to make sure I could understand what was going on, explaining everything to me in Mandarin. They recognized my problem and really took pain to assist me in whatever ways they could, even at the expense of having to go over some conversations again and again.

    Other than the above, I also received tremendous help in my coursework, projects, and thesis writing. My immediate "supervisor" (a postdoctoral scientist working under my official supervisor) who had helped me all the way through my research project and taught me all the hands-on techniques painstakingly from scratch actually took the initiative to go through my whole thesis for grammatical errors and rewrote many portions of it for me before I submitted it to my actual supervisor for his review. Because of her generosity, I did not have to pay someone (like some of my peers did) to proofread my thesis for me.

    My supervisors, however, insisted that I speak in English even though they might speak to me in either English or Mandarin. This was to help me improve on my English, they said. At the same time, they would correct my mistakes for me. It was really beneficial for me, and through them, my English speaking ability improved immensely over the years. Now, I can quite confidently do a presentation in English! I believe I would not have picked up the language so fast had I stayed on to do my postgraduate studies in China. The environment here is just right for me to learn English in a very practical way.

    I guess this is exactly what makes postgraduate education here attractive for students from China. We are not suddenly confronted by an alien language, but rather, are allowed to pick up the language at a very comfortable pace, with the help of many "teachers" around us. Many Singaporeans are bilingual, speaking both English and Chinese fluently. The best part is they can switch from Chinese to English and vice-versa very quickly and they do not mind doing so to help foreign students like us understand them better.

    The postgraduate courses at the National University of Singapore are very well structured. For a research-based course like the one I was doing, new students get to take various academic modules during their first year, alongside laboratory work. After completing the specified academic modules, students immerse themselves fully in their research programme for the remainder of their course. Throughout the course, students are free to attend seminars arranged by the university. Postgraduates also get a chance to travel overseas on full sponsorship to present their work.

    Most of the research laboratories are very well equipped with the latest technologies, so much so that it took me quite a while just to learn how to handle the equipment! It was a good learning exercise, though, because I now feel competent to work in just about any research laboratory. In terms of information technology and Internet connections, computer clusters are widely available for students, although they are all "strictly for work." Alternatively, many students purchased their own portable units from the university at a reduced price.

    In the past few years, many of my peers from China stayed on to work in Singapore after finishing their courses. Some even took up permanent residency. However, I must say that assimilation into the local society takes some effort on our part. Although ethnically Chinese, I found out that there are vast differences between us, the Chinese from China and the Singaporean Chinese. Although we could communicate in the same language, our way of thinking differs quite a lot. There are also significant cultural differences. As a guest here, we need to interact a lot with the locals to understand their culture. Personally, living with a Singaporean family for several years has helped me to understand their culture much better. In a way, I often feel that students should try off-campus accommodation with local families. It is a worthwhile experience. My host, for example, invited me to many local celebrations and explained to me in great details the origins of all the local festivals.

    Overall, I have learnt a lot academically and culturally during my few years in Singapore. Living in a cosmopolitan city like Singapore is a great experience. Other than my Singaporean hosts, I also got the opportunity to mix with people from all over the world. In fact, sometimes, I feel that the country is like a mini United Nations. I have colleagues and friends from India, Malaysia, Myanmar, Africa, Italy, Australia, the United Kingdom, Germany, and Russia. Among the foreigners, English is the main language for communication, although over time I picked up a little of some other languages too. It has really been a remarkable experience for me.

    For the international students, I think it is really worthwhile to consider Singapore as a place for higher education. Both the National University of Singapore and Nanyang Technological University rank high on the "Asian Top Universities" list. There is a wide variety of courses to choose from. The tuition cost is quite affordable, even without a scholarship. As far as I know, most research-based students are sponsored by the university and/or the private sector and they receive monthly stipends that range from SGD1500 to SGD3000, depending on the discipline they are working in and who their sponsors are. In most cases, the stipend is adequate to pay for your tuition fees and some basic needs. For many aspiring postgraduate students, that's plenty good enough.


    Pay $250 to $300 for our senior citizens and old folks who slogged hard for our country.

    Pay $1500 to $3000 to PRC students to flood our uni and drive our local students away.

    Time to puke.

  3. #3

    Default Re: keep our money, forced us to buy

    Quote Originally Posted by deckard View Post
    http://sciencecareers.sciencemag.org...e/(parent)/158

    Postgraduate Education in Singapore--A Remarkable Experience
    Zhang Wei
    Singapore
    4 October 2002

    Traditionally, scholars from China head west to receive their higher education. Going to Singapore instead is a very recent phenomenon among Chinese students that began to gain popularity in the 1990s. I consider myself lucky to be among one of the earliest batches of China's students to come to Singapore for their postgraduate education.

    What led me to Singapore? Well, there are three major reasons. Firstly, Singapore's excellent universities offer an education comparable to some of the best universities in the world and at a much more affordable cost. Secondly, Singapore is just a few hours flight from my home, which makes it very convenient for me to travel to and fro. Thirdly, Singapore, in which more than two-thirds of the population is of Chinese descent, is an easy place for Chinese-speaking students like me to adapt to.

    My first impression when I touched down at the Changi International Airport was "Wow, what an orderly, efficient, and clean place!" In fact, that impression has not changed much since! I still marvel at the way the country keeps itself at its best through the years. In fact, I have realized that Singaporeans are the most compliant people I have encountered so far! In a way, that makes Singapore one of the best places for foreign students like me.

    At the National University of Singapore, where I spent three most memorable years, I enjoyed a very fulfilling life, both academically and socially. Campus life is very much like that at universities in China. Although I opted for off-campus accommodation, I spent most of my time on the campus and found myself very much a part of the campus community. Facilities for recreation are fantastic. Often, after a day's hard work, my colleagues and me would gather together for a game of table tennis or badminton, followed by a cool dip in the swimming pool.

    The university takes good care of its foreign postgraduate students. Students from non-English backgrounds are given special coaching in the English language, something that has helped me very much. Having been educated in the Chinese medium in China, it was hard for me to suddenly switch to using English immediately. Fortunately, my supervisors and most of my Singaporean colleagues speak Mandarin. And in the laboratory, my supervisors and colleagues did their best to make sure I could understand what was going on, explaining everything to me in Mandarin. They recognized my problem and really took pain to assist me in whatever ways they could, even at the expense of having to go over some conversations again and again.

    Other than the above, I also received tremendous help in my coursework, projects, and thesis writing. My immediate "supervisor" (a postdoctoral scientist working under my official supervisor) who had helped me all the way through my research project and taught me all the hands-on techniques painstakingly from scratch actually took the initiative to go through my whole thesis for grammatical errors and rewrote many portions of it for me before I submitted it to my actual supervisor for his review. Because of her generosity, I did not have to pay someone (like some of my peers did) to proofread my thesis for me.

    My supervisors, however, insisted that I speak in English even though they might speak to me in either English or Mandarin. This was to help me improve on my English, they said. At the same time, they would correct my mistakes for me. It was really beneficial for me, and through them, my English speaking ability improved immensely over the years. Now, I can quite confidently do a presentation in English! I believe I would not have picked up the language so fast had I stayed on to do my postgraduate studies in China. The environment here is just right for me to learn English in a very practical way.

    I guess this is exactly what makes postgraduate education here attractive for students from China. We are not suddenly confronted by an alien language, but rather, are allowed to pick up the language at a very comfortable pace, with the help of many "teachers" around us. Many Singaporeans are bilingual, speaking both English and Chinese fluently. The best part is they can switch from Chinese to English and vice-versa very quickly and they do not mind doing so to help foreign students like us understand them better.

    The postgraduate courses at the National University of Singapore are very well structured. For a research-based course like the one I was doing, new students get to take various academic modules during their first year, alongside laboratory work. After completing the specified academic modules, students immerse themselves fully in their research programme for the remainder of their course. Throughout the course, students are free to attend seminars arranged by the university. Postgraduates also get a chance to travel overseas on full sponsorship to present their work.

    Most of the research laboratories are very well equipped with the latest technologies, so much so that it took me quite a while just to learn how to handle the equipment! It was a good learning exercise, though, because I now feel competent to work in just about any research laboratory. In terms of information technology and Internet connections, computer clusters are widely available for students, although they are all "strictly for work." Alternatively, many students purchased their own portable units from the university at a reduced price.

    In the past few years, many of my peers from China stayed on to work in Singapore after finishing their courses. Some even took up permanent residency. However, I must say that assimilation into the local society takes some effort on our part. Although ethnically Chinese, I found out that there are vast differences between us, the Chinese from China and the Singaporean Chinese. Although we could communicate in the same language, our way of thinking differs quite a lot. There are also significant cultural differences. As a guest here, we need to interact a lot with the locals to understand their culture. Personally, living with a Singaporean family for several years has helped me to understand their culture much better. In a way, I often feel that students should try off-campus accommodation with local families. It is a worthwhile experience. My host, for example, invited me to many local celebrations and explained to me in great details the origins of all the local festivals.

    Overall, I have learnt a lot academically and culturally during my few years in Singapore. Living in a cosmopolitan city like Singapore is a great experience. Other than my Singaporean hosts, I also got the opportunity to mix with people from all over the world. In fact, sometimes, I feel that the country is like a mini United Nations. I have colleagues and friends from India, Malaysia, Myanmar, Africa, Italy, Australia, the United Kingdom, Germany, and Russia. Among the foreigners, English is the main language for communication, although over time I picked up a little of some other languages too. It has really been a remarkable experience for me.

    For the international students, I think it is really worthwhile to consider Singapore as a place for higher education. Both the National University of Singapore and Nanyang Technological University rank high on the "Asian Top Universities" list. There is a wide variety of courses to choose from. The tuition cost is quite affordable, even without a scholarship. As far as I know, most research-based students are sponsored by the university and/or the private sector and they receive monthly stipends that range from SGD1500 to SGD3000, depending on the discipline they are working in and who their sponsors are. In most cases, the stipend is adequate to pay for your tuition fees and some basic needs. For many aspiring postgraduate students, that's plenty good enough.


    Pay $250 to $300 for our senior citizens and old folks who slogged hard for our country.

    Pay $1500 to $3000 to PRC students to flood our uni and drive our local students away.

    Time to puke.
    some foreigner must have pissed you off real bad for you to hate them so much. Care to share your experience?

  4. #4
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    Default Re: keep our money, forced us to buy

    Quote Originally Posted by deckard View Post
    [url]

    Pay $250 to $300 for our senior citizens and old folks who slogged hard for our country.

    Pay $1500 to $3000 to PRC students to flood our uni and drive our local students away.

    Time to puke.
    Completely OT! Its not pay or grant, its an annuity paid out based on a fixed contribution. Do you even think about what you are posting?

  5. #5

    Default Re: keep our money, forced us to buy

    Quote Originally Posted by dkw View Post
    Completely OT! Its not pay or grant, its an annuity paid out based on a fixed contribution. Do you even think about what you are posting?
    Sheesh, in USA, a lot of unis provide free PHD education along with some pay for the same reason - the research the the students do is used by the school, and belongs to the school if you are a student there, apparently.

    Nothing new, I have no idea why some people are such a frog in the well. It's the same everywhere, the world is not a Nike sweatshop.

    If anything you should be happy, if our local universities actually gain enough recognition and prestige, next time anyone with a local degree will be able to find a job easily ANYWHERE, not just Singapore.
    Last edited by night86mare; 22nd August 2007 at 09:43 AM.

  6. #6
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    Default Re: keep our money, forced us to buy

    Quote Originally Posted by sigg View Post
    first they raise the minimum sum, tie up our money even longer.

    now even make it compulsory for all to buy annuities which pay out $250-$300 a month as reported. Just another excuse to let the insurance company earn our money. And the insure is likely NT*&

    whats up with these people, trying to run our life? $250-$300 a month ,assuming you are 30 years old now, 30 years down the road, this will be 'kacang putih' money

    booooo!!!
    In 7 sentences you managed to fundamentally contradict yourself. So which is it? You don't want to buy any annuity at all and get even less than the $250-$300 which you already treat with such contempt, or buy an even bigger annuity but have even more of your cherished CPF locked for for even longer? Tough choice isn't it? But if you can't make it, I guess those folk in charge SHOULD come in and run your life.

  7. #7

    Default Re: keep our money, forced us to buy

    Quote Originally Posted by sigg View Post
    first they raise the minimum sum, tie up our money even longer.

    now even make it compulsory for all to buy annuities which pay out $250-$300 a month as reported. Just another excuse to let the insurance company earn our money. And the insure is likely NT*&

    whats up with these people, trying to run our life? $250-$300 a month ,assuming you are 30 years old now, 30 years down the road, this will be 'kacang putih' money

    booooo!!!
    Having something to fall back on is better than nothing at all.

    Just think of it as saving for the future - ask the old lady picking up cardboard by the side of the road if she wished that she had say, $100 a month on top of what she had, and I bet you she would say yes.

    The problem with the current generation of workers is that:
    1) Medical coverage has largely been withdrawn, by most sectors, be it civil service or private - it is a global practice in fact in a bid to cut long-term costs I suppose
    2) No more pension

    Yet people still spend all their monthly money away, buying er, lenses hahaha. If we all thought harder?

  8. #8
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    Default Re: keep our money, forced us to buy

    Quote Originally Posted by night86mare View Post
    Sheesh, in USA, a lot of unis provide free PHD education along with some pay for the same reason - the research the the students do is used by the school, and belongs to the school if you are a student there, apparently.

    Nothing new, I have no idea why some people are such a frog in the well. It's the same everywhere, the world is not a Nike sweatshop.

    If anything you should be happy, if our local universities actually gain enough recognition and prestige, next time anyone with a local degree will be able to find a job easily ANYWHERE, not just Singapore.
    Ehhh. You replying to me?

  9. #9

    Default Re: keep our money, forced us to buy

    Quote Originally Posted by dkw View Post
    Ehhh. You replying to me?
    Obviously not. I just like quoting shorter things, too lazy to use quick reply - the window is so small.

  10. #10

    Default Re: keep our money, forced us to buy

    Quote Originally Posted by dkw View Post
    Completely OT! Its not pay or grant, its an annuity paid out based on a fixed contribution. Do you even think about what you are posting?
    hehe... I know it is different. just to point out the unfairness.
    the TS gave me the opportunity to vent out the unfairness.
    anyway this is kopidiam what....
    end of the day, many older singaporeans feel alienated.

    old folks will think "why treat me like this?" " I cannot compare to overseas student with no contribution yet?"

    just my own opinion.

  11. #11

    Default Re: keep our money, forced us to buy

    Quote Originally Posted by deckard View Post
    hehe... I know it is different. just to point out the unfairness.
    the TS gave me the opportunity to vent out the unfairness.
    anyway this is kopidiam what....
    end of the day, many older singaporeans feel alienated.

    old folks will think "why treat me like this?" " I cannot compare to overseas student with no contribution yet?"

    just my own opinion.
    Well, they could..

    Go and research, if they want. Then they'll get paid too? =D

    Might as well say all the NS boys alienate older Singaporeans, $400 per month minimum, a lot more if you are combat officer?

  12. #12

    Default Re: keep our money, forced us to buy

    Quote Originally Posted by dkw View Post
    In 7 sentences you managed to fundamentally contradict yourself. So which is it? You don't want to buy any annuity at all and get even less than the $250-$300 which you already treat with such contempt, or buy an even bigger annuity but have even more of your cherished CPF locked for for even longer? Tough choice isn't it? But if you can't make it, I guess those folk in charge SHOULD come in and run your life.
    maybe you should read and re-read to better understand what I am aiming at.

    1) Tie up our hard earned money for as long as they can. Its our money for gods sake. Let us decide before implementing any new scheme. Typical mentality of the white men

    2) Make it compulsory for all to buy? Use the money from Ordinary account to pay? You want more payout, you pay more premium. Then more money withdrawn from OA, fall below minimum sum, sorry cannot withdraw at 55. Geez. where are the option for us in this case? Opt out? NONE!!!

    Get it?

  13. #13
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    Default Re: keep our money, forced us to buy

    Quote Originally Posted by sigg View Post
    maybe you should read and re-read to better understand what I am aiming at.

    1) Tie up our hard earned money for as long as they can. Its our money for gods sake. Let us decide before implementing any new scheme. Typical mentality of the white men

    2) Make it compulsory for all to buy? Use the money from Ordinary account to pay? You want more payout, you pay more premium. Then more money withdrawn from OA, fall below minimum sum, sorry cannot withdraw at 55. Geez. where are the option for us in this case? Opt out? NONE!!!

    Get it?
    I assure you, I know where you are coming from. It is the same refrain over and over. The contradiction is that you allude to the lack of security that a small annuity quantum can provide you in your old age, yet contend that g-ment to impose some fiscal discipline on individuals to obviate that risk is undesirable. Cake, eat it, get it?

  14. #14

    Default Re: keep our money, forced us to buy

    Quote Originally Posted by deckard View Post
    hehe... I know it is different. just to point out the unfairness.
    the TS gave me the opportunity to vent out the unfairness.
    anyway this is kopidiam what....
    end of the day, many older singaporeans feel alienated.

    old folks will think "why treat me like this?" " I cannot compare to overseas student with no contribution yet?"

    just my own opinion.

    lucky u bring this up...if not u will explode...hehehehehe

  15. #15

    Default Re: keep our money, forced us to buy

    Quote Originally Posted by dkw View Post
    Cake, eat it, get it?
    cake, errmm....not my birthday yet ley , how?

  16. #16
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    Default Re: keep our money, forced us to buy

    Quote Originally Posted by deckard View Post
    hehe... I know it is different. just to point out the unfairness.
    If it is different things, and cannot be compared, how can it be unfair??? One in an annuity paid out from your own contributions, sorta like a savings or fixed deposit, for your old age needs, the other is a grant to a student from an institution, with likely conditions of bond attached and the expectation that the individual will be making contributions in the future with regards to filling a skills gap and making tax contributions.

    Different initiatives for completely different purposes. Where is the unfairness?

    Tell you what, lets change the law right now. All over 62 years should get a $100,000 top up in CASH, don't matter what you spend on. You can got to Vegas, take your round the world trip. If you are destitute at 63, after splurging your money, the g-ment will continue to provide your housing and healthcare till you perish, on average at age 80, to the tune of $50,000 a year. Total cost per indivdual = $950,000. Estimatyed population of SG above 62 = 10% x 4 million = 400,000. Total cost per annum = $50,000 x 400,000 = $20 billion.

    In order to support this, we can either;

    1) Draw down foreign reserves, which at $20 bn a year, will run dry in 6-7 years, or

    2) Increase taxes for working adults. $20 bn a year spread over 2 million working adults will mean an increase in income tax of an average of $10,000/person/year.

    Ok, now you happy?

  17. #17

    Default Re: keep our money, forced us to buy

    Quote Originally Posted by sigg View Post
    maybe you should read and re-read to better understand what I am aiming at.

    1) Tie up our hard earned money for as long as they can. Its our money for gods sake. Let us decide before implementing any new scheme. Typical mentality of the white men

    2) Make it compulsory for all to buy? Use the money from Ordinary account to pay? You want more payout, you pay more premium. Then more money withdrawn from OA, fall below minimum sum, sorry cannot withdraw at 55. Geez. where are the option for us in this case? Opt out? NONE!!!

    Get it?

    Die young, no problem.

  18. #18

    Default Re: keep our money, forced us to buy

    Quote Originally Posted by drakon09 View Post
    Die young, no problem.
    Good idea...at least you give option..

  19. #19

    Default Re: keep our money, forced us to buy

    You miss the point. Which is, why keep our money? It's OUR money.

    No one here is petitioning the govt to give handouts for life. Or to support us in old age.



    Quote Originally Posted by dkw View Post
    Tell you what, lets change the law right now. All over 62 years should get a $100,000 top up in CASH, don't matter what you spend on. You can got to Vegas, take your round the world trip. If you are destitute at 63, after splurging your money, the g-ment will continue to provide your housing and healthcare till you perish, on average at age 80, to the tune of $50,000 a year. Total cost per indivdual = $950,000. Estimatyed population of SG above 62 = 10% x 4 million = 400,000. Total cost per annum = $50,000 x 400,000 = $20 billion.

    In order to support this, we can either;

    1) Draw down foreign reserves, which at $20 bn a year, will run dry in 6-7 years, or

    2) Increase taxes for working adults. $20 bn a year spread over 2 million working adults will mean an increase in income tax of an average of $10,000/person/year.

    Ok, now you happy?

  20. #20

    Default Re: keep our money, forced us to buy

    do we get a tax break if we are buying annuities?

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