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Thread: Price of photography service has been going down?

  1. #21
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    Default Re: Price of photography service has been going down?

    Quote Originally Posted by DXNMedia View Post
    Most local businesses in Singapore don't appreciate creative businesses because they cannot put a value to their Return of Investment.....
    What most new business startup and even some older and
    more experienced ones didn't want to accept that
    "Creativity is the soul of a business"

    and that

    "Ideas are the currency of business success"
    To get such services they will have to pay for it.
    Not to laugh at their business strategy but it is silly
    to think that it is a privilege to be a part of the
    adventure of getting things done cheaply.

    Creative Technology chose the above when placing
    ads in the media, while Apple went the other way of
    just selling a lifestyle and a brand. In no time we
    saw the failing of the one of the most respected
    successful local business.


  2. #22

    Default Re: Price of photography service has been going down?

    Quote Originally Posted by DXNMedia View Post
    in my field of trade which is a close relative of photography, lagi worse.....most clients will tell you, "Got sound, got picture can already!"

    One local chicken rice company even got the 'chicks' to offer me $10k to produce a 'high-end' TVC for them, and with that money, they also want a training video & a corporate video with a famous TV host with the likes of typical mediacorp 'food-intro' tv programs!

    I left their office grumbling to myself that is a bloody waste of time to even go for the meeting.

    Most local businesses in Singapore don't appreciate creative businesses because they cannot put a value to their Return of Investment.....very near sighted.
    totally agree, they think we have it easy and try to fleece them.

  3. #23

    Default Re: Price of photography service has been going down?

    Quote Originally Posted by Godzilla Invades View Post
    Well, I would categorize that under cheapo clients. Plain simple.

    I have met before this clowns before and the worst part is they are cheap and bad pay master. If they do respond what you mentioned above, then their taste as a cheap as it gets. The richer a person is, the more stingy they are.

    Infact, I couldn't be bothered with the remarks given by them as they are trying to make us look cheap. Simple exploitation of photographers. Never sell yourself cheap.

    If a client thinks is so simple to shoot, loan your camera to them and ask them to shoot. Then you shoot your own style with the same product. Compare with theirs and yours. Ask them for a HONEST opinion. I have tried this method before and 10 out of 10, I win hands down.

    Plus they are only FEEDBACKS. Anyone can say anything they want.
    Problem is that its very COMMON here, i've had friends in the media telling me that doing a great job doesn't guarantee business, its price...sad people don't value creative services.

  4. #24

    Default Re: Price of photography service has been going down?

    Quote Originally Posted by forward View Post
    In the world of providing professional business services
    from fashion to the food industry it is all about
    branding positioning in the type of market chosen.

    Photographers have to adopt future thinking if they
    want to go further and can prosper quicker by adopting
    and positioning themselves in a more collaborative
    manner searching the world constantly for its
    marketing activities.



    harder to do this is the market is already in market failure mood thanks to all the thoughtless people who hurt it with all the undercutting. Same thing with the airline industry.

  5. #25

    Default Re: Price of photography service has been going down?

    Quote Originally Posted by forward View Post
    What most new business startup and even some older and
    more experienced ones didn't want to accept that
    "Creativity is the soul of a business"

    and that

    "Ideas are the currency of business success"
    To get such services they will have to pay for it.
    Not to laugh at their business strategy but it is silly
    to think that it is a privilege to be a part of the
    adventure of getting things done cheaply.

    Creative Technology chose the above when placing
    ads in the media, while Apple went the other way of
    just selling a lifestyle and a brand. In no time we
    saw the failing of the one of the most respected
    successful local business.

    your point being?

  6. #26
    Senior Member blueskye168's Avatar
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    Default Re: Price of photography service has been going down?

    Quote Originally Posted by DXNMedia View Post
    in my field of trade which is a close relative of photography, lagi worse.....most clients will tell you, "Got sound, got picture can already!"==>Ya lor, similar.

    One local chicken rice company even got the 'chicks' to offer me $10k to produce a 'high-end' TVC for them, and with that money, they also want a training video & a corporate video with a famous TV host with the likes of typical mediacorp 'food-intro' tv programs!

    I left their office grumbling to myself that is a bloody waste of time to even go for the meeting.

    Most local businesses in Singapore don't appreciate creative businesses because they cannot put a value to their Return of Investment.....very near sighted.
    Ooh(2-similar encounters too-I can understand that "feeling") really got the "feel" of waste-of-time talking & presenting and finally=phew
    Last edited by blueskye168; 22nd August 2007 at 03:01 PM.
    Anything that can take pictures...happy already lor...(..but...Hasselblad_H5D-50 as my Workhorse)

  7. #27
    Senior Member blueskye168's Avatar
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    Default Re: Price of photography service has been going down?

    Quote Originally Posted by Godzilla Invades View Post
    Well, I would categorize that under cheapo clients. Plain simple.

    I have met before this clowns before and the worst part is they are cheap and bad pay master. If they do respond what you mentioned above, then their taste as a cheap as it gets. The richer a person is, the more stingy they are.

    Infact, I couldn't be bothered with the remarks given by them as they are trying to make us look cheap. Simple exploitation of photographers. Never sell yourself cheap.

    If a client thinks is so simple to shoot, loan your camera to them and ask them to shoot. Then you shoot your own style with the same product. Compare with theirs and yours. Ask them for a HONEST opinion. I have tried this method before and 10 out of 10, I win hands down.

    Plus they are only FEEDBACKS. Anyone can say anything they want.
    Yes, I won't hesitate to agree coz I met(happened b4 ok, definitely more than 1-2 clients-&-to-be)saying/asking "what dslr & lenses good for shooting this kind of products)should I tell them in oder to clinched the deals or they'll finally buy & shoot their products themselves=dislike & hard to answer them coz answer right also pose a 'threat' (to own rice bowl) agree??

    Also, one of a kind, there was(luckily once only=I mean 1 is more than enough loh!) 1 of my rather regular client who at one stage hire someone else and said to me "they're trying out 1st only" -well what can I say right- by all means lor right(at that very moment felt 'piss-off man, I tot liao liao-regular gone liao, but guess what, he came back to me & hahaha showing me complaining 'colours too yellowish + angle like not so nice' by that "CMI photghr" taken) from then till now I'm still their choice="heng-ahh or its skill that counts"(I'd a good laugh man, hahaha).
    Anything that can take pictures...happy already lor...(..but...Hasselblad_H5D-50 as my Workhorse)

  8. #28
    Senior Member blueskye168's Avatar
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    Default Re: Price of photography service has been going down?

    Quote Originally Posted by garou12 View Post
    Problem is that its very COMMON here, i've had friends in the media telling me that doing a great job doesn't guarantee business, its price...sad people don't value creative services.
    Ya lor, sian eh
    Anything that can take pictures...happy already lor...(..but...Hasselblad_H5D-50 as my Workhorse)

  9. #29

    Default Re: Price of photography service has been going down?

    Quote Originally Posted by blueskye168 View Post
    Also, one of a kind, there was(luckily once only=I mean 1 is more than enough loh!) 1 of my rather regular client who at one stage hire someone else and said to me "they're trying out 1st only" -well what can I say right- by all means lor right(at that very moment felt 'piss-off man, I tot liao liao-regular gone liao, but guess what, he came back to me & hahaha showing me complaining 'colours too yellowish + angle like not so nice' by that "CMI photghr" taken) from then till now I'm still their choice="heng-ahh or its skill that counts"(I'd a good laugh man, hahaha).
    I also had clients doing the same thing....asked me what they can buy to produce their own in-house video content, etc...and I end up charging them consultation fees for their setup.....a month or two later, they realised that they cannot hire anyone competent to do the job effectively, and when they did, they realised that they need to pay just as much for their services....end up now I am still serving the same customers and I dun need to use my personal equipment for the job.

    I stand by the claim to sell with your skills, and not with equipment because anyone or any other businessman can afford to buy equipment....but knowing how to make money from your skills & investment is another issue.

    Ultimately, I think everyone in the creative business must stay united. It's hard to put a value to art/creativity, but you pay for what you'll get.
    DXNMedia.net
    Post Production | Video Acquisition | Tape Transfers | Microwave RF Camera Services

  10. #30

    Default Re: Price of photography service has been going down?

    Quote Originally Posted by blueskye168 View Post
    Yes, I won't hesitate to agree coz I met(happened b4 ok, definitely more than 1-2 clients-&-to-be)saying/asking "what dslr & lenses good for shooting this kind of products)should I tell them in oder to clinched the deals or they'll finally buy & shoot their products themselves=dislike & hard to answer them coz answer right also pose a 'threat' (to own rice bowl) agree??

    Also, one of a kind, there was(luckily once only=I mean 1 is more than enough loh!) 1 of my rather regular client who at one stage hire someone else and said to me "they're trying out 1st only" -well what can I say right- by all means lor right(at that very moment felt 'piss-off man, I tot liao liao-regular gone liao, but guess what, he came back to me & hahaha showing me complaining 'colours too yellowish + angle like not so nice' by that "CMI photghr" taken) from then till now I'm still their choice="heng-ahh or its skill that counts"(I'd a good laugh man, hahaha).
    So I am not to worried with this set of people as there will always be.

    Photography as a profession will always be there for a long time. It's something which only some of us will understand. Those who are not in this line will never grasp what's in our mind. Hehe...that is our creative talent which we use.

    Our talent and skills are only half way there. It's also how we PR and market our self that complete the whole transactions. Client is still willing to pay more if the quality of your photos and the turn around time is fast. I am not too sure about some of your all but most of my clients wants it fast with same high quality.

  11. #31

    Default Re: Price of photography service has been going down?

    Quote Originally Posted by DXNMedia View Post
    I also had clients doing the same thing....asked me what they can buy to produce their own in-house video content, etc...and I end up charging them consultation fees for their setup.....a month or two later, they realised that they cannot hire anyone competent to do the job effectively, and when they did, they realised that they need to pay just as much for their services....end up now I am still serving the same customers and I dun need to use my personal equipment for the job.

    I stand by the claim to sell with your skills, and not with equipment because anyone or any other businessman can afford to buy equipment....but knowing how to make money from your skills & investment is another issue.

    Ultimately, I think everyone in the creative business must stay united. It's hard to put a value to art/creativity, but you pay for what you'll get.
    Problem is some of this people who enter the market started off on the wrong foot. Do not know what the market is like, just any how charge. It's good that they are new in the market (i do not feel threaten as we have enough share of the piece of pie) but just do not justify their skills with the rates they are quoting.

  12. #32
    Senior Member blueskye168's Avatar
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    Default Re: Price of photography service has been going down?

    Quote Originally Posted by DXNMedia View Post
    I also had clients doing the same thing....asked me what they can buy to produce their own in-house video content, etc...and I end up charging them consultation fees for their setup.....a month or two later, they realised that they cannot hire anyone competent to do the job effectively, and when they did, they realised that they need to pay just as much for their services....end up now I am still serving the same customers and I dun need to use my personal equipment for the job.

    I stand by the claim to sell with your skills, and not with equipment because anyone or any other businessman can afford to buy equipment....but knowing how to make money from your skills & investment is another issue.

    Ultimately, I think everyone in the creative business must stay united. It's hard to put a value to art/creativity, but you pay for what you'll get.
    ya bro, seems like videography & photography faced some "similar probs/issues"(somehow feels better now) Thanks for your sharing of those 'incidence' letsfor our brighter futures, ya
    Anything that can take pictures...happy already lor...(..but...Hasselblad_H5D-50 as my Workhorse)

  13. #33
    Senior Member blueskye168's Avatar
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    Default Re: Price of photography service has been going down?

    Quote Originally Posted by Godzilla Invades View Post
    So I am not to worried with this set of people as there will always be.

    Photography as a profession will always be there for a long time. It's something which only some of us will understand. Those who are not in this line will never grasp what's in our mind. Hehe...that is our creative talent which we use.

    Our talent and skills are only half way there. It's also how we PR and market our self that complete the whole transactions. Client is still willing to pay more if the quality of your photos and the turn around time is fast. I am not too sure about some of your all but most of my clients wants it fast with same high quality.
    Yup, precisely bro(in Blue)

    Well, as(in magenta) for my clients some yes need it fast but some not really need fast(depends on which trades/serving)
    Anything that can take pictures...happy already lor...(..but...Hasselblad_H5D-50 as my Workhorse)

  14. #34

    Default Re: Price of photography service has been going down?

    Quote Originally Posted by blueskye168 View Post
    Yup, precisely bro(in Blue)

    Well, as(in magenta) for my clients some yes need it fast but some not really need fast(depends on which trades/serving)
    That is why I mentioned only those who work our line will understand it. Public only sees it from their own point of view.

  15. #35

    Default Re: Price of photography service has been going down?

    Quote Originally Posted by DXNMedia View Post
    I also had clients doing the same thing....asked me what they can buy to produce their own in-house video content, etc...and I end up charging them consultation fees for their setup.....a month or two later, they realised that they cannot hire anyone competent to do the job effectively, and when they did, they realised that they need to pay just as much for their services....end up now I am still serving the same customers and I dun need to use my personal equipment for the job.

    I stand by the claim to sell with your skills, and not with equipment because anyone or any other businessman can afford to buy equipment....but knowing how to make money from your skills & investment is another issue.

    Ultimately, I think everyone in the creative business must stay united. It's hard to put a value to art/creativity, but you pay for what you'll get.
    yes we should unionize ourselves.

  16. #36
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    Default Re: Price of photography service has been going down?

    Quote Originally Posted by Godzilla Invades View Post
    Client is still willing to pay more if the quality of your photos and the turn around time is fast. I am not too sure about some of your all but most of my clients wants it fast with same high quality.
    My clients never rush me, in fact all of them are convinced that you can't rush art, in my case, the post-processing/editing.

    I've got it in the service agreement that clients will get to see their photos within 15 to 60 days after their wedding.

    It's pretty much a take it or leave it policy. For clients who wants express service, even after explaining to them why they need to wait, I'll suggest they go find another photographer.

  17. #37
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    Default Re: Price of photography service has been going down?

    bottomline is, more important than pricing, you need to find the clientele that will appreciate your work. chances are, those clients who are price-sensative are also the group that wants things fast, cheap and good.

  18. #38

    Default Re: Price of photography service has been going down?

    Quote Originally Posted by canturn View Post
    My clients never rush me, in fact all of them are convinced that you can't rush art, in my case, the post-processing/editing.

    I've got it in the service agreement that clients will get to see their photos within 15 to 60 days after their wedding.

    It's pretty much a take it or leave it policy. For clients who wants express service, even after explaining to them why they need to wait, I'll suggest they go find another photographer.
    Sorry. I was just referring to commercial photography. Weddings are excluded in the rush category.

  19. #39
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    Default Re: Price of photography service has been going down?

    Quote Originally Posted by Godzilla Invades View Post
    Sorry. I was just referring to commercial photography. Weddings are excluded in the rush category.
    Oh yea. Commercial expects you to deliver in 3 days, but when comes to getting payment from them, it takes 3 months.

    One of the reasons why I'm doing less commercial work now, I'm a photographer, not a banker who goes after the companies for $$

    Sorry for the OT

  20. #40

    Default Re: Price of photography service has been going down?

    Quote Originally Posted by canturn View Post
    Oh yea. Commercial expects you to deliver in 3 days, but when comes to getting payment from them, it takes 3 months.

    One of the reasons why I'm doing less commercial work now, I'm a photographer, not a banker who goes after the companies for $$

    Sorry for the OT
    No OT as this is part of business photography which we would like to share with those who have little or no experience.

    Oh for the payment, I make my clientele and my life very simple. COD is my terms. So far all my contract is all drafted as such. You want fast photo results, I want fast money in return. I do not believe in credit terms.

    I give them a good service with competitive rates and fast delivery. In return, I just want money to be given when goods are delivered. So, I do not have any bad credits. I use to give one month and then turn to 2 months and then became bad habit among them. So I only work with clients who accept COD.

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