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Thread: Singapore wants older workers to continue working

  1. #121

    Default Re: Singapore wants older workers to continue working

    Wow, looks like this thread is still piping hot. Keke~ Relax guys, we all have different perspectives.

  2. #122

    Default Re: Singapore wants older workers to continue working

    Quote Originally Posted by Chiang View Post
    will i still have a choice ?

    i watch channelnewsasia most of the time , n i get to see some programs of people living a diff life - , eg priviledge life, super yatch n super cars, . i tell myself before i kick the bucket , i must travel around the world.

    is abt experience, true i can book a travel video but nothings beats the feeling of the environmental factors brushing against your senses.

    right now , i already have no savings cause go loans to clear, n when i learn that when i m old i may not withdraw my money for thingslike touring saddens me further.

    ofcourse i have to keep my self healthy,otherwise no employees will want me, but the main reason why i want to keep healthy is to really have the fitness to tour the world.
    same dream here. need money leh.

  3. #123
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    Default Re: Singapore wants older workers to continue working

    Quote Originally Posted by ghost77 View Post
    Hey, CPF money is all our own "blood" money. OK. Now the g-ment decide for us whether or not we are allowed to take out our money for our old age. Please.....
    The CPF is like pension, social security, whatever you want to call it. It's your money, true, but it's not exactly like cash in your pocket. It's supposed to be a sort of compulsory savings for you, so that the state does not have to take care of you when you are old. Sure, many of the people in this forum may be thrifty and savvy and have enough savings for retirement and question this policy, but the fact we all have to acknowledge is that policies have to be made to take into account the worst case situation, ie. what if everyone spent all their CPF money at 62 ? So the state will have to take care of thousands of old folks.

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    Default Re: Singapore wants older workers to continue working

    Quote Originally Posted by arpinkor View Post
    I don't think you get the point. Lack of foresight ? Just the opposite. The govt must cater to the worst case, ie. we all know there will be people who will spend every cent in their pocket and then it will be up to the state to take care of them, meaning you and me (our tax dollars). The CPFIS has been around, but most people actually lose money. Like I said, the govt has to cater to the majority, maybe some people make a lot of money from the CPFIS, good for them, but lots of others kena burnt.
    haha..i would have to call this as preventive measures..just look at the lift upgrading programmes..izzzit so hard to build lifts to stop at every level last time..but this is OT..

    back to the CPF issue..the gov. oni allows ppl to withdraw a small amount every month at the age of 62 out from the minimum sum..its not drawing everything..I would have to say, its more of a matter of keeping cost low for elderlies than to make them work to keep up with the rising cost..but have they ("gov") play a good role in keeping cost low?
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  5. #125
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    Default Re: Singapore wants older workers to continue working

    You are speaking for everyobe spend all their CPF money at 62. I admit there are some "rotten" apples out there who doesn't know how to manage money when they have a huge cash in their pocket and start spending money on the young beauty and thinking that they have fallen in love. Because of these? everybody has to be punished when they get old?

    Quote Originally Posted by arpinkor View Post
    The CPF is like pension, social security, whatever you want to call it. It's your money, true, but it's not exactly like cash in your pocket. It's supposed to be a sort of compulsory savings for you, so that the state does not have to take care of you when you are old. Sure, many of the people in this forum may be thrifty and savvy and have enough savings for retirement and question this policy, but the fact we all have to acknowledge is that policies have to be made to take into account the worst case situation, ie. what if everyone spent all their CPF money at 62 ? So the state will have to take care of thousands of old folks.

  6. #126
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    Default Re: Singapore wants older workers to continue working

    Quote Originally Posted by ghost77 View Post
    You are speaking for everyobe spend all their CPF money at 62. I admit there are some "rotten" apples out there who doesn't know how to manage money when they have a huge cash in their pocket and start spending money on the young beauty and thinking that they have fallen in love. Because of these? everybody has to be punished when they get old?
    Punish is a harsh word. But, yeah, there can only be one policy for everyone right ? How to differentiate the different kinds of people, ie. those who have their own savings and those who don't ? If look at bank account, some people may try to borrow money to pad their accounts temporarily. There's no easy painless solution. That's why I said, if you want freedom, choice, etc., you have to take matters into your own hands, build up your own savings while you are still young and working, don't be at the mercy of govt policies.

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    Default Re: Singapore wants older workers to continue working

    Quote Originally Posted by ghost77 View Post
    You are speaking for everyobe spend all their CPF money at 62. I admit there are some "rotten" apples out there who doesn't know how to manage money when they have a huge cash in their pocket and start spending money on the young beauty and thinking that they have fallen in love. Because of these? everybody has to be punished when they get old?
    Bro..ur comment suddenly give me some idea..i think they("gov") dun want those retirees to spend the CPF inside the IRs..else later everyone put the blame on IRs and they will be in deep "sai"..
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  8. #128
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    Default Re: Singapore wants older workers to continue working

    AND "IF" they don't invest so much in the "Temasek Holding". Understand there are quite a lot of investment is losing money. Wonder whose money is that?

    Quote Originally Posted by blazer_workz View Post
    Bro..ur comment suddenly give me some idea..i think they("gov") dun want those retirees to spend the CPF inside the IRs..else later everyone put the blame on IRs and they will be in deep "sai"..

  9. #129
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    Default Re: Singapore wants older workers to continue working

    I don't give it a "****" in the govt policies. I don't see any certainty in it. The policies changes from time to time and it gets more and more contradicting.

    Quote Originally Posted by arpinkor View Post
    Punish is a harsh word. But, yeah, there can only be one policy for everyone right ? How to differentiate the different kinds of people, ie. those who have their own savings and those who don't ? If look at bank account, some people may try to borrow money to pad their accounts temporarily. There's no easy painless solution. That's why I said, if you want freedom, choice, etc., you have to take matters into your own hands, build up your own savings while you are still young and working, don't be at the mercy of govt policies.

  10. #130

    Default Re: Singapore wants older workers to continue working

    Quote Originally Posted by ghost77 View Post
    I don't give it a "****" in the govt policies. I don't see any certainty in it. The policies changes from time to time and it gets more and more contradicting.
    yeah. they suka suka find one 70 year old hero that do triathon then assumes that all old hero can.

    suka suka raise and raise. now 67, later 70, 73. bit by bit never end.

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    Default Re: Singapore wants older workers to continue working

    If you go up the lorry before your "official" retirement age, then your kids gets your cpf. Life's like that.

    There are some good points being raised here, like we shouldn't depend on cpf for retirement completely, we need to other sources of income (investments? other savings?) so that we could live comfortably when we are older.

    No one is forced to work till 67, if I win Toto first prize 2M tomolo I can retire the day after! OT sorry..

  12. #132
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    Default Re: Singapore wants older workers to continue working

    Ya lor, they suka suka show one old man working in Burger King counter in the TV programme and assunming all the old folks should work like that too.

    Quote Originally Posted by deckard View Post
    yeah. they suka suka find one 70 year old hero that do triathon then assumes that all old hero can.

    suka suka raise and raise. now 67, later 70, 73. bit by bit never end.

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    Default Re: Singapore wants older workers to continue working

    Quote Originally Posted by ghost77 View Post
    I don't give it a "****" in the govt policies. I don't see any certainty in it. The policies changes from time to time and it gets more and more contradicting.
    Yes..contradiction is the word..
    Rememeber they have a law that the children must support the parents when the parents grow old..now the cost is too high for everyone..if the children have to support the parent, he/she will not have enough to support the family..but it seems to me no action taken to keep cost low..maybe have, and that's to suppress our wage..
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    Default Re: Singapore wants older workers to continue working

    Quote Originally Posted by FooFighter View Post
    If you go up the lorry before your "official" retirement age, then your kids gets your cpf. Life's like that.

    There are some good points being raised here, like we shouldn't depend on cpf for retirement completely, we need to other sources of income (investments? other savings?) so that we could live comfortably when we are older.

    No one is forced to work till 67, if I win Toto first prize 2M tomolo I can retire the day after! OT sorry..
    Well, the TOTO is at least a dream Singaporeans has been hoping..

    An old man ever told me a phrase in hokkien - i translate as follows:
    "The gov. not scare u buy 1 or 2 dollar 4D or TOTO, they oni scare u dun buy."

    Think of every draw, be it 4D, TOTO, horse or soccer betting..compare the prize paid out with the sales intake..but of course, Singapore Pools is a so call "charity" organization..but are they being very transparent? (*OT*)
    Last edited by blazer_workz; 21st August 2007 at 11:23 AM.
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  15. #135
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    Default Re: Singapore wants older workers to continue working

    Yes, on one hand, they saying these. On the other hand, they start increasing the GST to 7% reasoning that the economy is doing well now. On the other hand, they worry that the older propulation is getting higher and higher and worrying that the old folks couldn't take care of themselve if they don't work at the retirement age, they will have no cash to handle the high cost of living.
    I believe everybody has noticed that after the increase of the extra 2% GST, the hawker centre giving excuse to increase the cost of the food and drink even now the transport fees.

    Quote Originally Posted by blazer_workz View Post
    Yes..contradiction is the word..
    Rememeber they have a law that the children must support the parents when the parents grow old..now the cost is too high for everyone..if the children have to support the parent, he/she will not have enough to support the family..but it seems to me no action taken to keep cost low..maybe have, and that's to suppress our wage..
    Last edited by ghost77; 21st August 2007 at 11:26 AM.

  16. #136
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    Default Re: Singapore wants older workers to continue working

    on the bright side
    mayb the more we work, the more money we'll have for retirement
    then more money we'll have for medical expenses. good ne
    think the companies wants to bang walls bang tables .... still contributing CPF to all workers till they are 67?

    oh puuuullleeeeeeeeeeeeeaaaasssseeeee
    爱是要时间慢慢培养的。。

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    Default Re: Singapore wants older workers to continue working

    Quote Originally Posted by furrycake View Post
    on the bright side
    mayb the more we work, the more money we'll have for retirement
    then more money we'll have for medical expenses. good ne
    think the companies wants to bang walls bang tables .... still contributing CPF to all workers till they are 67?

    oh puuuullleeeeeeeeeeeeeaaaasssseeeee
    optimistic thinking..how i wish i can think like u..
    haha..if u can work till u reach the higher income group of ppl then good for u..hard work doesn't promise great returns..
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  18. #138
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    Default Re: Singapore wants older workers to continue working

    Usually when you reach late 50s and you have been working in your company for over 35 years. Your boss starts giving you hard time in your work. Correct me if I am wrong. Anyway, now it is hard to keep a job for 35 years even you are very loyal.

    Quote Originally Posted by blazer_workz View Post
    optimistic thinking..how i wish i can think like u..
    haha..if u can work till u reach the higher income group of ppl then good for u..hard work doesn't promise great returns..

  19. #139
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    Default Re: Singapore wants older workers to continue working

    Quote Originally Posted by dkw View Post
    Static,
    really, do try and read a little bit of background? This is the frustration in this kinds of discussions. We are debating the need for this change, yet folk who are engaging in this discussion are not even aware of the fundamental underlying drivers and statistics necessitating this action.

    Yes, life expectancy in Singapore in increasing. When I was in Primary school, life expectancy was mid-60s, in secondary school, late 60s, in Uni, it was already mid-70s. As a rough guide, please look at the link below. Form 1998 to 2000, life expectancy for SGreans increased from 78 to 80.

    http://geography.about.com/library/weekly/aa042000b.htm

    More comprehensive stats are available if you look hard enough. Increase in life expectancy is a fact. Does this now change your perspective?

    Triathlons --> Look at Osim 2007 results. Small number of over 50s, but set to increase, as is the case for many western countries. People are staying more active in their older age, agian, fact.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Life_expectancy

    Throughout human history most increases in life expectancy arose from preventing early deaths. However, some people believe this trend will not continue, as medical advancements aimed at better monitoring day to day, medically significant test values, and simple intervention such as blood pressure and clotting level control, will prevent many sudden deaths or strokes. Some people[weasel words] predict that half of the North American and Japanese babies born since 2000 will live to 90, and 10% to 100.

    These represent the life expectancies of the population as a whole. In many instances life expectancy varied considerably according to class and gender. All statistics include infant mortality, but not miscarriage or abortion


    Statistics include infant death.

    Lower infrant death was one of the factor contributed to the significant rise in life expectancy in the statistics.

    Yes I do agree that life expectancy is raising as a result of the development in modern medicine to combat illness and diseases in all stages in life which resulted in an overall increase in number of people survinving into older age.

    I can understand the fact that it is a reality we have to work until at older age.

    But let's be realistic, why are the chances of companies employing older workers. Dun try to be too optimistic here. You will see the real problem arises when you are unemployed and not able to withdraw your minimum sum in your cpf. How you gona live day after day without $

    We understand that this is the reason why our govt is actively promoting strengthening family ties so that singaporeans would look after these aging population. Eliminating the problem tat these group of ppl would cause if they would to depend on govt for monetary assistance. But our current society seemed to place more importance on chasing money than fillial piety.. So its hopeless oso

    So is making ppl work longer so they can self substain in their later years a good move ?

    Longer life expectancy doesn't equate to a healthy body and mind capable of working until 65 or 67
    And a reality check on companies willing to employ older workers would be pessimistic oso

    U need $ and squeezing $ from ppl through taxing is even not feasible.

    Come up with solutions that match ur salaries then. I am stupid, dun ask me for suggestion.
    Last edited by Static; 21st August 2007 at 11:51 AM.
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  20. #140

    Default Re: Singapore wants older workers to continue working

    Quote Originally Posted by ghost77 View Post
    Usually when you reach late 50s and you have been working in your company for over 35 years. Your boss starts giving you hard time in your work. Correct me if I am wrong. Anyway, now it is hard to keep a job for 35 years even you are very loyal.
    yeah. I also suspect. the new law that force the company to keep you with slightly lower pay and reduced responsibilities. but smart companies will just find some excuse to terminate you before you reach that age lah. then the employer don't have to wreck his head trying to find simple job for you to do.

    that a young chap or pretty gal can do for a fraction of the price.

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