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Thread: Singapore wants older workers to continue working

  1. #61
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    Default Re: Singapore wants older workers to continue working

    Quote Originally Posted by ghost77 View Post
    No, hopefully we can support ourselve in our old age.
    With the standard of living over here, how much is "enough"?
    Just to close the loop on your question, this is therefore the reason why the g-ment is encouraging folk to delay retirement, yes? They have said they are making plans to facilitate it, the rest is up to us to make the adjustment in expectations in our golden years. If you wish to quit and not work from an early 60s, then who is going to support you into the 80s and beyond?

  2. #62
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    Default Re: Singapore wants older workers to continue working

    Hmmm....

    Quote Originally Posted by dkw View Post
    Just to close the loop on your question, this is therefore the reason why the g-ment is encouraging folk to delay retirement, yes? They have said they are making plans to facilitate it, the rest is up to us to make the adjustment in expectations in our golden years. If you wish to quit and not work from an early 60s, then who is going to support you into the 80s and beyond?

  3. #63

    Default Re: Singapore wants older workers to continue working

    This policy is morally wrong. I don't buy the whole idea about working after retirement. Personally I will work if I have the health and the drive to work. Energy and health decreases at old age. For people with poor health, how do you expect them to work?
    Look at some poor aunties and uncles. Many walk with a limp. They shouldn't be working, and yet they have to. They have done enough for the country and their loved ones and it is time for them to take a break. Yes, I am being emotional. But I think you guys have seen some very old Ah Peks carrying bundles of evening papers from the vans to their mini-stalls. If you think carefully, it is very sad.

  4. #64
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    Default Re: Singapore wants older workers to continue working

    Quote Originally Posted by leejay View Post
    This policy is morally wrong. I don't buy the whole idea about working after retirement. Personally I will work if I have the health and the drive to work. Energy and health decreases at old age. For people with poor health, how do you expect them to work?
    Look at some poor aunties and uncles. Many walk with a limp. They shouldn't be working, and yet they have to. They have done enough for the country and their loved ones and it is time for them to take a break. Yes, I am being emotional. But I think you guys have seen some very old Ah Peks carrying bundles of evening papers from the vans to their mini-stalls. If you think carefully, it is very sad.
    It is good that you are idealistic. It is indeed morally wrong for old people to be left destitute. It is however, not morally wrong for the relatively healthy at age 67 to be encouraged to continue to work to support themselves. If you are encouraging welfare for the elderly, I put it to you it needs to be selective. Also, bear in mind who will be carrying the burden, the ever shrinking proportion of young working adults, which is you and me, don't forget that in your reckoning.

  5. #65
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    Default Re: Singapore wants older workers to continue working

    Quote Originally Posted by leejay View Post
    This policy is morally wrong. I don't buy the whole idea about working after retirement. Personally I will work if I have the health and the drive to work. Energy and health decreases at old age. For people with poor health, how do you expect them to work?
    Look at some poor aunties and uncles. Many walk with a limp. They shouldn't be working, and yet they have to. They have done enough for the country and their loved ones and it is time for them to take a break. Yes, I am being emotional. But I think you guys have seen some very old Ah Peks carrying bundles of evening papers from the vans to their mini-stalls. If you think carefully, it is very sad.
    On a further note, I will go so far as to say that I am willing to bear higher income tax and GST so that the g-ment can pursue a more comprehensive social policy, but try saying that in THIS forum....shushhhhh........

  6. #66
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    Default Re: Singapore wants older workers to continue working

    Quote Originally Posted by dkw View Post
    On a further note, I will go so far as to say that I am willing to bear higher income tax and GST so that the g-ment can pursue a more comprehensive social policy, but try saying that in THIS forum....shushhhhh........
    Perhaps you can write in to your MP and submit this request to be implemented on yourself ONLY I support u

    Anyway, those hoping to withdraw their CPF Minimum Sum and enjoy retirement have to wait abit longer liao.
    陳綺貞 2010 [夏季練習曲] 巡迴演唱會 Cheer Concert 13 Nov 2010 MAX Pavilion@Singapore Expo

  7. #67

    Default Re: Singapore wants older workers to continue working

    I still believe we should have the right to choose for ourselves. It is indeed sad that our final resting days have to be controlled by the authorities. Some talk like you will not have illnesses when you all are old. Incredible. Nothing can be predicted. Yes, people are living longer, but does that mean that it is our fault for living longer? Some people like to work til they die. Ok. Some people like to cash out and enjoy themselves like kings before they meet their maker. Ok also. It is own personal choice. I still believe in freedom of choice.

  8. #68
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    Default Re: Singapore wants older workers to continue working

    Quote Originally Posted by Static View Post
    Perhaps you can write in to your MP and submit this request to be implemented on yourself ONLY I support u

    Anyway, those hoping to withdraw their CPF Minimum Sum and enjoy retirement have to wait abit longer liao.
    Har har! I do my bit in other ways. But you see the quandary don't you. If we want lower taxation then surely the welfare component must be under control. If welfare is under control then surely those who can manage to work should continue to do so?

    All I see in this forum are folk yelling out their self-interest only. "I want lower taxes, fast advancement, high wages, low costs, early retirement, universal welfare, income growth in old age", without considering how they all fit together. At the end of the day, the g-ment needs to cater to all sections of society. If we on this forum, of the DSLR/Photoshop/Travel photography/Blogger ilk, can't even get our heads around the issues and pull our weight, make the necessary compromises and support initiatives, then the g-ment can think up the best policies and none of it would work.

  9. #69
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    Default Re: Singapore wants older workers to continue working

    let me think about, what the garment is trying to do us Singaporeans.

    retire later? what has retirement gotta do with the age we can take out our CPF? isnt CPF our OWN money?? no?? we still work, but cant we take out our money at 55 years old still? weird, isnt it?

    at 1st, they say to us women, pls bear more babies as we have aging population.
    the 3 months' maternity leave is given, lotsa allowance.. only beneficial to those who intend to have babies. people like me ? i think garment will ask me to fly kite

    then , they increase GST.. which many bizmen are taking this golden opportunities to increase this price, that price... okay. i think we're heading for inflation... foreigners/ MNCs/foreign investments pulling out of Sg... way to go

    now, they think the funds are pulling out ..funds running low? no problem... so garment gonna targer who ?

    sorry but unless we die before we reach 67, we basically are living in a country called Singapore - Pay And Pay
    爱是要时间慢慢培养的。。

  10. #70
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    Default Re: Singapore wants older workers to continue working

    Quote Originally Posted by deckard View Post
    I still believe we should have the right to choose for ourselves. It is indeed sad that our final resting days have to be controlled by the authorities.
    How about personal responsibility for actions and decisions? If you make the decision to retire early, are you willing to take responsibility for the consequences. As I said, you have the freedom to quit working anytime you like, just recognise that if you do so without a adequate nest-egg, that you chose an impoverised elderhood. Can you live with that? Don't quit and then when you run out of money, blame the g-ment for not meeting your needs, ok?

    Quote Originally Posted by deckard View Post
    Some talk like you will not have illnesses when you all are old. Incredible. Nothing can be predicted. Yes, people are living longer, but does that mean that it is our fault for living longer?
    Of course not. Is that not even more reason to make sure we are thrifty in our prime earning years and build up a nice nest egg? It is not our fault for living longer, but it is our fault if we do not take responsibility for our own futures if we know we are likely to be living longer. I say again, personal responsibility.

    Quote Originally Posted by deckard View Post
    Some people like to cash out and enjoy themselves like kings before they meet their maker. Ok also. It is own personal choice. I still believe in freedom of choice.
    No, its not ok. Its NOT ok to splurge early and then go on welfare when money runs out. Its NOT ok to mortgage the future of our children and grandchildren in the form of a high tax burden..

  11. #71
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    Default Re: Singapore wants older workers to continue working

    And some of them are walking with their legs limping. I feel sad for them when I see all these. They are trying to make a living with that small amount of income.



    Quote Originally Posted by leejay View Post
    This policy is morally wrong. I don't buy the whole idea about working after retirement. Personally I will work if I have the health and the drive to work. Energy and health decreases at old age. For people with poor health, how do you expect them to work?
    Look at some poor aunties and uncles. Many walk with a limp. They shouldn't be working, and yet they have to. They have done enough for the country and their loved ones and it is time for them to take a break. Yes, I am being emotional. But I think you guys have seen some very old Ah Peks carrying bundles of evening papers from the vans to their mini-stalls. If you think carefully, it is very sad.

  12. #72
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    Default Re: Singapore wants older workers to continue working

    Quote Originally Posted by ghost77 View Post
    And some of them are walking with their legs limping. I feel sad for them when I see all these. They are trying to make a living with that small amount of income.
    I feel sorry for these old folk too, but please don't use these as a stick to beat the raising of retirement age. To a certain extent, these are the kinds of situations the g-ment are trying to avoid by doing so. Have you asked them about their circumstances? With retirement ages much lower in the past, presumably at least a few of them may have stopped working prematurely, and having lived long beyond their expectations, have run out of money. If you want to prescribe welfare, then yes, but selectively. It does not mean that raising the retirement age and CPF withdrawal will be causing these old folk to go out on the street.

  13. #73

    Default Re: Singapore wants older workers to continue working

    Quote Originally Posted by dkw View Post
    How about personal responsibility for actions and decisions? If you make the decision to retire early, are you willing to take responsibility for the consequences. As I said, you have the freedom to quit working anytime you like, just recognise that if you do so without a adequate nest-egg, that you chose an impoverised elderhood. Can you live with that? Don't quit and then when you run out of money, blame the g-ment for not meeting your needs, ok?
    people can make their own decisions. everyone is different and unique. Not everyone subscribes to the confucious way of doing things and living their lives. It is their money and it is up to them how they like to spend it. sure, some people like to spend everything and go on a round the world trip on a motorcycle. come back and then have nothing. their choice mah. their dream what....some people want to go Las Vegas and gamble and enjoy their last final days. it is their dream. some unfortunate people have illnesses and need the money to see doctors. people are all different. please don't force. anyway these people who spend everything will not blame g-ment also what. they know what they are doing.

  14. #74

    Default Re: Singapore wants older workers to continue working

    Quote Originally Posted by dkw View Post
    Of course not. Is that not even more reason to make sure we are thrifty in our prime earning years and build up a nice nest egg? It is not our fault for living longer, but it is our fault if we do not take responsibility for our own futures if we know we are likely to be living longer. I say again, personal responsibility.
    anything can happen. children may need money, illnesses etc.

  15. #75

    Default Re: Singapore wants older workers to continue working

    Quote Originally Posted by dkw View Post
    On a further note, I will go so far as to say that I am willing to bear higher income tax and GST so that the g-ment can pursue a more comprehensive social policy, but try saying that in THIS forum....shushhhhh........
    Instead of "loyal" singaporeans like yourself volunteering to pay more tax, one simple solution would be to not increase the pay of our already most highly paid ministers in the world. I believe those millions of dollars could be put to better use.

  16. #76
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    Default Re: Singapore wants older workers to continue working

    Quote Originally Posted by deckard View Post
    people can make their own decisions. everyone is different and unique. Not everyone subscribes to the confucious way of doing things and living their lives. It is their money and it is up to them how they like to spend it. sure, some people like to spend everything and go on a round the world trip on a motorcycle. come back and then have nothing. their choice mah. their dream what....some people want to go Las Vegas and gamble and enjoy their last final days. it is their dream. some unfortunate people have illnesses and need the money to see doctors. people are all different. please don't force. anyway these people who spend everything will not blame g-ment also what. they know what they are doing.
    So, if there are people want to be irresponsible, then g-ment has right to put checks in place. People like to think, "one last big bang", when its over, reality sets in and suddenly, they are broke. You say final days. How do you know? Odds are that at age 62 you have another 20 years to live on average, and large numbers live beyond that. Then what, take a leap off the 25th floor? Suicide rate goes up, and guess what, CS forum full of posts slamming g-ment. You say these people won't blame g-ment? How do you know? As it is, plenty of people on CS blaming g-ment on their behalf oredi.

  17. #77
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    Default Re: Singapore wants older workers to continue working

    No, I am not using it as a stick to beat the raising of the retirement age. I think by the age of 67, if we are still strong enough to carry on working and you are happy with your job. By all means, nobody can stop us.
    But, if you are limping and maybe your leg knee caps are hurting while you are walking and still you have to work. I think that is sad.

    Quote Originally Posted by dkw View Post
    I feel sorry for these old folk too, but please don't use these as a stick to beat the raising of retirement age. To a certain extent, these are the kinds of situations the g-ment are trying to avoid by doing so. Have you asked them about their circumstances? With retirement ages much lower in the past, presumably at least a few of them may have stopped working prematurely, and having lived long beyond their expectations, have run out of money. If you want to prescribe welfare, then yes, but selectively. It does not mean that raising the retirement age and CPF withdrawal will be causing these old folk to go out on the street.

  18. #78

    Default Re: Singapore wants older workers to continue working

    Quote Originally Posted by dkw View Post
    No, its not ok. Its NOT ok to splurge early and then go on welfare when money runs out. Its NOT ok to mortgage the future of our children and grandchildren in the form of a high tax burden..
    not everyone will spend like a mad fool in their old age. maybe one nut out of a thousand. because of the one nut, all are being punished. most old folks know how to handle their own money and spend wisely. give some to children, modest holiday etc. it is our own money. pls let us decide how we can spend it.

  19. #79
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    Default Re: Singapore wants older workers to continue working

    Quote Originally Posted by centuryegg View Post
    Instead of "loyal" singaporeans like yourself volunteering to pay more tax, one simple solution would be to not increase the pay of our already most highly paid ministers in the world. I believe those millions of dollars could be put to better use.
    Drop in the bucket. $30million/yr translates to $30 per person over 65/year by 2020. Could minister's salary be lower? I believe so, but it won't make a difference. This change needs to happen.

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    Default Re: Singapore wants older workers to continue working

    Quote Originally Posted by deckard View Post
    not everyone will spend like a mad fool in their old age. maybe one nut out of a thousand. because of the one nut, all are being punished. most old folks know how to handle their own money and spend wisely. give some to children, modest holiday etc. it is our own money. pls let us decide how we can spend it.
    What exactly is it you want changed? I am confused by your points.

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