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Thread: Too old to worK till 65?

  1. #81
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    Default Re: Too old to worK till 65?

    Quote Originally Posted by blazer_workz View Post
    lol..u must be joking..orchard road? how many are Singaporeans? go to the heartlands where all the Singaporeans are..kopishop, hawker centres, wet markets..8-9 out of 10 are complaining hardly can survive in Singapore..other countries? and which country?

    Riduculous? lol apple compare wif orange? or apple compare wif pineapples? so wat's next? apple compare wif durains? Mine are not research..no need funds one..just a touch of humanity..

    I never say numbers are concocted.. Its like playing 4D u noe? 24 permutation..there will be a combination to strike 1st prize..
    My goodness, you didn't even read the link, did you?

  2. #82
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    Default Re: Too old to worK till 65?

    Quote Originally Posted by dkw View Post
    Singaporeans are living longer and getting older on average. Are you saying that is a lie?
    im not trying to side with Deckard, and if i do sound like it...but what we trying to say this, this statistics shouldnt be a support to prove that (all?) Singaporeans are living longer and getting older - it's just a generalised statement to me. what about the PR here, or other people (some holding S Passes or even some with E Pass) whom have been contributing to CPF as well ?

    you know i have a feeling that we might argue until the cows come home and you still stick to your views that this delayed 'retirement' move is correct but i am entitled to my own views too. say why cant they give people an option ?

    did they report the no. of people jumping off the mrt tracks increased over the years? think again why i said, they let you see what you want to see.

    i rest my case. i dont feel the need to argue so much as its pointless
    爱是要时间慢慢培养的。。

  3. #83
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    Default Re: Too old to worK till 65?

    Quote Originally Posted by deckard View Post
    how can you trust the numbers?

    how much is in our foreign reserves?

    how much money is COE and ERP making for the g-ment?
    I ain't talking about ERP and I ain't talking about foreign reserves. Even if these are used in the WHO population statistcs? Even if it is entirely consistent with trends observed in other developed nations, and easily projected from crude birth and death rates? You don't believe that SGreans are living longer and are getting older on average? I think you have just demonstrated the unreasonableness of your position.

  4. #84
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    Default Re: Too old to worK till 65?

    Quote Originally Posted by furrycake View Post
    im not trying to side with Deckard, and if i do sound like it...but what we trying to say this, this statistics shouldnt be a support to prove that (all?)
    A statistic is just a statistic. It is a number describing a situation. It does not take sides. If you wnat to talk about how to apply a policy based on a statistic, that's fine. If the statistic points out a problem, and the g-ment takes steps to address it, you then attack the statistic? How reasonable is that? Form my perspective, this is how I see the thought process;

    I don't like the CPF policy change --> G-ment must have hidden agenda --> Statistic shows the problem g-ment is trying to solve --> statistics must be a lie...... How ridiculous is that?

    How about;

    Statistic shows a problem --> g-ment proposes a solution --> I don't like the solution but accept that problem exists, want alternative....... How about that as a more reasoned position as a starting point for discussion?
    Last edited by dkw; 22nd August 2007 at 05:55 PM.

  5. #85

    Default Re: Too old to worK till 65?

    Just to interupt the interesting discussion. I really do wonder how come if Singapore is so good and well, why do we have so much grouses in all forums not only this one. I can only interpret it as

    1) We are bunch of whiners and losers who just like to complain

    OR

    2) There is nothing wrong, just that we are misinformed and hence we get so worked up

    OR

    3) There is something wrong and no matter what we say, it is brushed aside as whining of an ungrateful bunch of Singaporeans.

    I am also really curious on how certain individuals here don't seek to understand why others besides himself have so much to complain about. Instead this individuals blasts all having alternative views as well being not right and should be shutted up. I am also amazed at how these individuals are able to pull out statistics and figures at will in record short time as if it is sitting right in front of them. Frankly I really wont be surprised these individuals are our ministers themselves! If you are ministers or are someone who has access to them, then let them know please. It pays to listen to the common people no matter how much a nuisance you think we are as compared to your grand plan for Singapore. We are after all the citizens you profess to be serving in return for the high pay you are demanding.

  6. #86
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    Default Re: Too old to worK till 65?

    Quote Originally Posted by centuryegg View Post

    I am also really curious on how certain individuals here don't seek to understand why others besides himself have so much to complain about. Instead this individuals blasts all having alternative views as well being not right and should be shutted up. I am also amazed at how these individuals are able to pull out statistics and figures at will in record short time as if it is sitting right in front of them. Frankly I really wont be surprised these individuals are our ministers themselves! If you are ministers or are someone who has access to them, then let them know please. It pays to listen to the common people no matter how much a nuisance you think we are as compared to your grand plan for Singapore. We are after all the citizens you profess to be serving in return for the high pay you are demanding.
    Was wondering when you would show up. Attack people at will and squeal for your mom when you get prodded. Do some diligence lah, 0.003 sec search on Google will uncover the SG numbers.

    Same old boring tactic........

  7. #87

    Default Re: Too old to worK till 65?

    Quote Originally Posted by dkw View Post
    I ain't talking about ERP and I ain't talking about foreign reserves. Even if these are used in the WHO population statistcs? Even if it is entirely consistent with trends observed in other developed nations, and easily projected from crude birth and death rates? You don't believe that SGreans are living longer and are getting older on average? I think you have just demonstrated the unreasonableness of your position.
    you are the one that is saying that we will finish the foreign reserves in 6 to 7 years.

    there is money coming in and money going out right? so what is wrong with knowing how much it makes from COE and ERP? maybe there is enough money?

    if you can use statistics to support your case, please do let us know how much reserves singapore have so that we know how long it can last.

    anyway. you know I am anti-globalization. If that makes me a bigot, so be it.
    Last edited by deckard; 22nd August 2007 at 09:10 PM.

  8. #88
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    Default Re: Too old to worK till 65?

    Quote Originally Posted by centuryegg View Post
    1) We are bunch of whiners who just like to complain

    OR

    2) we are misinformed and hence we get so worked up
    For some, both of the above, and in other's, massive chips the size of houses sitting on very small shoulders. Note, I don't call people losers, I have more respect than that, and I never said there is nothing wrong. There is plenty wrong with g-ment policies, just not what you are picking on.
    Last edited by dkw; 22nd August 2007 at 06:05 PM.

  9. #89

    Default Re: Too old to worK till 65?

    Quote Originally Posted by dkw View Post
    Was wondering when you would show up. Attack people at will and squeal for your mom when you get prodded. Do some diligence lah, 0.003 sec search on Google will uncover the SG numbers.

    Same old boring tactic........
    Oh I am always here... haha sorry to bore you with the same old "boring" tactic just like you always give us the same old boring answer... "our govt is good, our govt is moral etc etc etc" And when on earth did my mother come into the picture now? From arrogance to mother.... my my you really love to hit below the belt do you? Why shaking in your feet now that you have people who dare to question you? Oh please cuckoo cuckoo.....

    Since you say there are problems then why not bring it up? Instead of us hearing you always praising the govt?
    Last edited by centuryegg; 22nd August 2007 at 06:38 PM.

  10. #90
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    Default Re: Too old to worK till 65?

    Those who can live so long receive the prime of healthcare - they have jumbo jets at their disposal to fly around to get treatment.

    Quote Originally Posted by johnlim View Post
    Living to age of 100? Just Urban legend lah.

    Science can make you younger meh? Science can cure all the diseases meh?

    What I can think of is they are producing more & more chemical, polluting the earth, polluting human body system. YOu still think you can live longer?

    Do not rely on statistic alone. It is not reliable. Who knows 20 years down the road, what might happen to human being. Maybe scientists are overly optimistic, just like decades ago they envisioned a better life on earth for future generations to come by relying on technologies and chemical. Look at what happens now, the earth is on the brim of calamities. All attributed to many the development of science.

    Trees & forests are depleting, oceans are poisoned, ice at the north is melting; Who contributed to these changes? The optimistic scientists!


  11. #91
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    Default Re: Too old to worK till 65?

    I suppose with all the questions surrounding numbers on "residents" unemployment rate, to numbers on foreign students getting acccepted into University, it is understandable that one takes a skeptical view towards numbers.

    Quote Originally Posted by dkw View Post
    Furrycake, how about being a little objectiveon this matter? This is nothing surprising, the birth rate has been low for decades, and the population is aging. This is the road trod by the Japanese and many Western European countries, it is entirely consistent. Yes, there is a possibility of slight error in all estimates, but what is the basis to contend that these figures are to be doubted?

  12. #92
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    Default Re: Too old to worK till 65?

    Quote Originally Posted by centuryegg View Post
    Oh I am always here... haha sorry to bore you with the same old "boring" tactic just like you always give us the same old boring answer... "our govt is good, our govt is moral etc etc etc" And when on earth did my mother come into the picture now? From arrogance to mother.... my my you really love to hit below the belt do you? Why shaking in your feet now that you have people who dare to question you? Oh please cuckoo cuckoo.....

    Since you say there are problems then why not bring it up? Instead of us hearing you always praising the govt?
    Healthcare financing structure and distribution is very poor for a developed country. I have written to press and had it published.

    Education system is too focussed on academic results and too little on holistic development.

    2 of my bugbears.

    Hit below the belt? Try this, centuryegg, I don't think you are a concerned Singaporean at ALL, I think you are an agent of a foreign country trying to drive a wedge between the people and the leaders. That's why, when someone like me posts in strong support, you must reply. The text in blue, a baseless, speculative accusation, spoken as a fact, completely disregarding reason, based on MY impressions of your posts. THATS what you do ALL the time, when you try to taint me with a white brush. So go look in the mirror, ok?

    P.S. Missed your quip about shaking. Its shaking in your BOOTS, not shaking in your feet, please.
    Last edited by dkw; 22nd August 2007 at 06:56 PM.

  13. #93

    Default Re: Too old to worK till 65?

    Seriously DKW, no one is targetting you but rather you are targeting all who dont agree with you as idiots. You may not say it but the conscending way you put us all down and bring in our mothers. Well you are only going to get yourself blasted, taunted, and ridiculed. Yeah and frankly what is meant to be a discussion has become name calling simply because you cannot understand that many here have reasons to be unhappy despite you saying they dont. You are sounding more and more like typical civil servant everyday telling us off and telling us that govt policy is this and that when we on the ground dont see it as such.

    I would say to you, come down from your pedestal high up there and understand the unhappiness that is brewing on the ground. Remember this the party only won elections because of clever GRC partitioning and scare tactics like vote for us if not no upgrade for you. One tatic which we all know has backfired badly on the party.

    Anyway I do apologise for any infractions not because I am afraid that you might get so irritated by me that you report me as a subversive to ISA. but rather I find that we just want the best for our country and it is not helping by trying to silence each other. And no I am no foreign agent, I am a true Singaporean who has served his NS and is still serving and paying taxes. I am not driving a wedge between the people and their leaders. Put it this way, I am not the only one to question and many out there who have even more than what I have brought up. NKF, Minister's pay increases, temasek holdings losses, many many other issues. Just open your ears and you will hear it. Have a good night... Dear Minister.... please make your pay increase worth it yah... And oh yeah really it is quite lame how I only repeat that I find you might be a govt minister which you should find honourable but you go from Arrogant fellow to mother whiner to now foreign govt agent?? Oh boy what is next? I am alien from the planet mars? Please at least be consistent in your labelling.... haha
    Last edited by centuryegg; 22nd August 2007 at 07:00 PM.

  14. #94

    Default Re: Too old to worK till 65?

    Quote Originally Posted by dkw View Post
    Healthcare financing structure and distribution is very poor for a developed country. I have written to press and had it published.

    Education system is too focussed on academic results and too little on holistic development.
    got copy of the letters? would like to read.

  15. #95
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    Default Re: Too old to worK till 65?

    Quote Originally Posted by garou12 View Post
    got copy of the letters? would like to read.
    A bit dangerous for me as the name will be on the letters. Don't want death threats like that ODEX guy. Still, if you want my opinion on healthcare financing and distribution, you can start a grouse and I will join you.

  16. #96
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    Default Re: Too old to worK till 65?

    Quote Originally Posted by centuryegg View Post

    Anyway I do apologise for any infractions not because I am afraid that you might get so irritated by me that you report me as a subversive to ISA. but rather I find that we just want the best for our country and it is not helping by trying to silence each other. And no I am no foreign agent, I am a true Singaporean who has served his NS and is still serving and paying taxes. I am not driving a wedge between the people and their leaders. Put it this way, I am not the only one to question and many out there who have even more than what I have brought up. NKF, Minister's pay increases, temasek holdings losses, many many other issues. Just open your ears and you will hear it. Have a good night... Dear Minister.... please make your pay increase worth it yah... And oh yeah really it is quite lame how I only repeat that I find you might be a govt minister which you should find honourable but you go from Arrogant fellow to mother whiner to now foreign govt agent?? Oh boy what is next? I am alien from the planet mars? Please at least be consistent in your labelling.... haha
    You cast the first stone my fren, a long time ago, and it hurts. I will agree to stop the name calling, if we agree to discuss the issues as issues, and not go into personal motivations. For that I apologise too.

    And I promise to get off my high horse, ok.

    Have a good day.

  17. #97

    Default Re: Too old to worK till 65?

    Quote Originally Posted by dkw View Post
    A bit dangerous for me as the name will be on the letters. Don't want death threats like that ODEX guy. Still, if you want my opinion on healthcare financing and distribution, you can start a grouse and I will join you.
    or you can pm me and edit the name out so its not shown. like that your cover won't be blown.

  18. #98

    Default Re: Too old to worK till 65?

    Quote Originally Posted by dkw View Post
    You cast the first stone my fren, a long time ago, and it hurts. I will agree to stop the name calling, if we agree to discuss the issues as issues, and not go into personal motivations. For that I apologise too.

    And I promise to get off my high horse, ok.

    Have a good day.
    If I did cast the first stone which I dont remember actually and sigh I think many stones have been casted at you from many here. I sincerely apologize for that. I just hope that you understand that not agreeing with govt views doesnt mean disloyalty. We love our country that is why we bring up issues which we think are flawed. And the problem is we on the ground are really unhappy with alot of things which those up there dont seem to see.

    For example the GST increase which has led to many food stalls increasing their price by 50 cents. Numerous letters to the ST Forum has garner not even a reply saying that they cannot publish your letter, simply silence until finally i got a letter today telling me they cannot publish my letter and advise me to contact the GST profiteering Committee instead. Which incidentally I had done so before writing to the ST Forum as I got no replies from the committee.... The letter was just stating exactly which hawker centre and coffee shops have increased their prices and enquired if a 50 cents increase is correct.

    How are we to believe surveys that show only 0.6 percent of hawkers did increase their price when right in front of me, half the stalls at a hawker centre, 2 coffee shops increase their prices by 20 percent? Am I the unlucky one that all of the 0.6 percent who increased prices are in the 1 hawker centre and 2 coffee shops? Questions like this are left unanswered and we get survey results that seem to be not in tally with conditions on the ground. It is not about only the 50 cents, it is about accountability. Is the survey flawed or are we painting a rosy picture just to cover things up?

    That is only one of the grouses, believe me there are alot more. The examples are overwhelming, I dont deny the govt has done a good job but then recently we dont see accountability for many unpopular decisions. All the reasons for implementation dont seem to tally and on the ground, we suffer for it.

  19. #99
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    Default Re: Too old to worK till 65?

    Quote Originally Posted by garou12 View Post
    or you can pm me and edit the name out so its not shown. like that your cover won't be blown.
    Issues have changed since then my fren, far better to address the present, you will see I have a lot of thoughts about the idiosyncrasies of our healthcare delivery system. I have to say the present health minister has a lot to do the fix the neglect passed on to him by his predecessors, who basically sat on their hands and did nothing (or worse!).

  20. #100
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    Default Re: Too old to worK till 65?

    Quote Originally Posted by centuryegg View Post
    If I did cast the first stone which I dont remember actually and sigh I think many stones have been casted at you from many here. I sincerely apologize for that. I just hope that you understand that not agreeing with govt views doesnt mean disloyalty. We love our country that is why we bring up issues which we think are flawed. And the problem is we on the ground are really unhappy with alot of things which those up there dont seem to see.

    For example the GST increase which has led to many food stalls increasing their price by 50 cents. Numerous letters to the ST Forum has garner not even a reply saying that they cannot publish your letter, simply silence until finally i got a letter today telling me they cannot publish my letter and advise me to contact the GST profiteering Committee instead. Which incidentally I had done so before writing to the ST Forum as I got no replies from the committee.... The letter was just stating exactly which hawker centre and coffee shops have increased their prices and enquired if a 50 cents increase is correct.

    How are we to believe surveys that show only 0.6 percent of hawkers did increase their price when right in front of me, half the stalls at a hawker centre, 2 coffee shops increase their prices by 20 percent? Am I the unlucky one that all of the 0.6 percent who increased prices are in the 1 hawker centre and 2 coffee shops? Questions like this are left unanswered and we get survey results that seem to be not in tally with conditions on the ground. It is not about only the 50 cents, it is about accountability. Is the survey flawed or are we painting a rosy picture just to cover things up?

    That is only one of the grouses, believe me there are alot more. The examples are overwhelming, I dont deny the govt has done a good job but then recently we dont see accountability for many unpopular decisions. All the reasons for implementation dont seem to tally and on the ground, we suffer for it.
    There is a lot of on the ground unhappiness, I could not agree more. Part of it is their political tactics, which can be petty and vindictive. The other is the ministers' pay. I do think they should be well paid, but the latest round of increase certainly made me do a double-take. Still, its sad because it distracts from a lot of good policy-making. In my heart of hearts, this CPF/retirement thing I believe to be the right step, unpopular though it may be, and therefore a brave one and a demonstration of courage. In my younger days I truly disliked the xxx, but now with issues of globalisation hitting us, I'm glad we have a really fine team who understand what it takes to run a country. Connecting with the ground, that's another story.........
    Last edited by dkw; 22nd August 2007 at 09:33 PM.

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