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Thread: defense for pple sued by odex?

  1. #121

    Default Re: defense for pple sued by odex?

    Quote Originally Posted by garou12 View Post
    that why i said if its not a legal entity then things just turned interesting.
    I think whether a director of Odex is a member of AVPAS has no bearing on Odex's claim against the downloaders.

    Even if there is a conflict of interest, that's between AVPAS and Odex and the director. The downloaders cannot use any claim of conflict of interest as a defence against the claim of infringement.

  2. #122
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    Default Re: defense for pple sued by odex?

    Quote Originally Posted by yoshi27 View Post
    I think whether a director of Odex is a member of AVPAS has no bearing on Odex's claim against the downloaders.

    Even if there is a conflict of interest, that's between AVPAS and Odex and the director. The downloaders cannot use any claim of conflict of interest as a defence against the claim of infringement.
    claim of infringement of what?

  3. #123

    Default Re: defense for pple sued by odex?

    Quote Originally Posted by eikin View Post
    claim of infringement of what?
    If Odex is the exclusive licensee of the anime titles, it can claim an infringement of their rights as set out in the Copyrights Act, e.g., right to reproduce the shows.

  4. #124
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    Default Re: defense for pple sued by odex?

    Quote Originally Posted by yoshi27 View Post
    If Odex is the exclusive licensee of the anime titles, it can claim an infringement of their rights as set out in the Copyrights Act, e.g., right to reproduce the shows.
    actually what constitutes reproduction in the act? shouldn't they go after illegal uploaders and distributors and not downloaders then?

  5. #125

    Default Re: defense for pple sued by odex?

    Quote Originally Posted by yoshi27 View Post
    I think whether a director of Odex is a member of AVPAS has no bearing on Odex's claim against the downloaders.

    Even if there is a conflict of interest, that's between AVPAS and Odex and the director. The downloaders cannot use any claim of conflict of interest as a defence against the claim of infringement.
    no but it won't help their case in court.

  6. #126

    Default Re: defense for pple sued by odex?

    Quote Originally Posted by yoshi27 View Post
    I think deadpixel is saying that under the law, the act of downloading is an infringement against Odex's rights as exclusive licensee. No number of good lawyers can argue against the fact that under the law such act constitutes an infringement.

    Also, I do not think he was trying to say that Odex has a good case against the alleged infringers (i.e., Odex possess strong evidence). For those that believe Odex would have a difficult task proving its case - by all means do not bow to their demands. Whether or not it can be proven in court, if one did indeed download the titles, it is an infringement.
    Yep, yep

    Perhaps it's just that everyone is so fired up against ODEX that anyone who makes statements that look like some defence for ODEX may get stoned.

    I'm just cautioning people that ODEX has enough lawyers to advise them and that in all probability are acting within the law. Otherwise the courts are unlikely to issue them warrants "forcing" the ISPs to divulge subscribers' downloading habits.

    _

  7. #127
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    Default Re: defense for pple sued by odex?

    Quote Originally Posted by deadpixel View Post
    Yep, yep

    Perhaps it's just that everyone is so fired up against ODEX that anyone who makes statements that look like some defence for ODEX may get stoned.

    I'm just cautioning people that ODEX has enough lawyers to advise them and that in all probability are acting within the law. Otherwise the courts are unlikely to issue them warrants "forcing" the ISPs to divulge subscribers' downloading habits.

    _
    it's just that your analogies sound really funny to even be considered as valid defense for Odex in the first place

    this issue might concern the wiping out of a fringe culture in singapore, so i'm quite interested to know actually how all these legal mambo jambos are going to twist the development of events. i still think Odex made a bad move, and things are only going to get messier

  8. #128

    Default Re: defense for pple sued by odex?

    Quote Originally Posted by deadpixel View Post
    Yes they can, regardless of whether the account used to download the files are subscribed under their parents names, particularly if the kids (teenagers included) are still below a certain age. That is why it is so important to monitor what our kids are downloading these days.

    For those of us who are planning on standing in front of a judge to say, "I cannot be made liable because it is my kid who did it and I wasn't aware of what he was downloading," all I can say is, "Go ahead and try." Wahahahaha!

    _
    Quote Originally Posted by garou12 View Post
    You obviously haven't read any of the RIAA cases have you?
    Ummmm... are you saying that such an excuse is actually acceptable by the courts? In the last landmark case I remember, the parents were made to pay heavily for their kids downloads. This news made those waiting for their cases to be heard soil their pants.

    _

  9. #129

    Default Re: defense for pple sued by odex?

    Quote Originally Posted by eikin View Post
    actually what constitutes reproduction in the act? shouldn't they go after illegal uploaders and distributors and not downloaders then?
    I can't answer this with certainty...it was eons ago when I took computer law...

    Anyway, from my understanding, a person who downloads material will be considered reproducing the material, as it is their computer that are making copies. I am quite sure they can go after uploaders as well and I'm not sure if they are targeting downloaders exclusively.

  10. #130

    Default Re: defense for pple sued by odex?

    Quote Originally Posted by deadpixel View Post
    Ummmm... are you saying that such an excuse is actually acceptable by the courts? In the last landmark case I remember, the parents were made to pay heavily for their kids downloads. This news made those waiting for their cases to be heard soil their pants.

    _
    It has flown before. Go read some more and stop playing games with your boy.

  11. #131

    Default Re: defense for pple sued by odex?

    Quote Originally Posted by eikin View Post
    it's just that your analogies sound really funny to even be considered as valid defense for Odex in the first place

    this issue might concern the wiping out of a fringe culture in singapore, so i'm quite interested to know actually how all these legal mambo jambos are going to twist the development of events. i still think Odex made a bad move, and things are only going to get messier
    Ha ha...I know, it's a habit I got from my legal prof, he was always making us think of extreme situations.

    But yeah, I believe that it is a bad move too, but sometimes money is all we think of.


    Ok, break time is over...back to the arcade marathon with my kid
    _

  12. #132

    Default Re: defense for pple sued by odex?

    Quote Originally Posted by eikin View Post
    it's just that your analogies sound really funny to even be considered as valid defense for Odex in the first place

    this issue might concern the wiping out of a fringe culture in singapore, so i'm quite interested to know actually how all these legal mambo jambos are going to twist the development of events. i still think Odex made a bad move, and things are only going to get messier
    I think they made a good move. If they have any goodwill to reputation to begin with, this will alienate their fans. But based on what I have read so far, they don't have much customers to begin with. What do they have to lose?

    Anyway, I do think what they are doing is not entirely ethical.

  13. #133

    Default Re: defense for pple sued by odex?

    Quote Originally Posted by deadpixel View Post

    I'm just cautioning people that ODEX has enough lawyers to advise them and that in all probability are acting within the law. Otherwise the courts are unlikely to issue them warrants "forcing" the ISPs to divulge subscribers' downloading habits.
    Different woah... first is to get the court to agree that there are cases of downloading and that they wanted the ISPs to release personal (private) information. secondly they would have to prove that chargable infringement/offence have taken place. Then, they have to prove their loss..and whatever else other proofs mentioned in this thread... Well at least this is for the Civil side.

    However if the PP decides to press for criminal charges... it's another story. (now then I know it's mutually exclusive)
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  14. #134
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    Default Re: defense for pple sued by odex?

    Quote Originally Posted by deadpixel View Post
    Ha ha...I know, it's a habit I got from my legal prof, he was always making us think of extreme situations.

    But yeah, I believe that it is a bad move too, but sometimes money is all we think of.


    Ok, break time is over...back to the arcade marathon with my kid
    _
    the games you playing legal or not?

  15. #135

    Default Re: defense for pple sued by odex?

    Quote Originally Posted by yoshi27 View Post
    I think they made a good move. If they have any goodwill to reputation to begin with, this will alienate their fans. But based on what I have read so far, they don't have much customers to begin with. What do they have to lose?

    Anyway, I do think what they are doing is not entirely ethical.
    would they affect the other AVPAS members/affiliates.
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  16. #136
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    Default Re: defense for pple sued by odex?

    Quote Originally Posted by yoshi27 View Post
    I think they made a good move. If they have any goodwill to reputation to begin with, this will alienate their fans. But based on what I have read so far, they don't have much customers to begin with. What do they have to lose?

    Anyway, I do think what they are doing is not entirely ethical.
    in terms of unscrupulous business sense, they made a ''good'' move for now, i wonder what kind of business Odex can get into after this saga. if i'm one of the copyright owners represented by Odex, i'll get another distributor to do the job after this thing.

    actually it'll be interesting to see what the real anime copyright owners have to say about this

  17. #137

    Default Re: defense for pple sued by odex?

    Quote Originally Posted by eikin View Post
    in terms of unscrupulous business sense, they made a ''good'' move for now, i wonder what kind of business Odex can get into after this saga. if i'm one of the copyright owners represented by Odex, i'll get another distributor to do the job after this thing.

    actually it'll be interesting to see what the real anime copyright owners have to say about this
    you're in japan write them and ask lor

  18. #138

    Default Re: defense for pple sued by odex?

    Quote Originally Posted by CYRN View Post
    Different woah... first is to get the court to agree that there are cases of downloading and that they wanted the ISPs to release personal (private) information. secondly they would have to prove that chargable infringement/offence have taken place. Then, they have to prove their loss..and whatever else other proofs mentioned in this thread... Well at least this is for the Civil side.

    However if the PP decides to press for criminal charges... it's another story. (now then I know it's mutually exclusive)
    Actually they don't need to provide an offence has been committed, only the infringement.

    Sorry, I used the wrong term - they are not mutually exclusive. Meant to say that parallel civil and criminal actions can be brought against a person for a single act.

  19. #139
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    Default Re: defense for pple sued by odex?

    Quote Originally Posted by garou12 View Post
    you're in japan write them and ask lor
    if opportunity arises i'll just inform a couple of people i know inside the industry ... i bet they'll be rather shocked/amused

  20. #140

    Default Re: defense for pple sued by odex?

    Quote Originally Posted by CYRN View Post
    would they affect the other AVPAS members/affiliates.
    Under the Copyright Act, Odex as licensee is entitled to proceed with the action without joining the owners of the copyright (i.e., need not bring in the owners as plaintiff). The apportionment of profits between the parties will be determined by the courts.
    Last edited by yoshi27; 19th August 2007 at 05:19 PM.

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