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Thread: defense for pple sued by odex?

  1. #1

    Default defense for pple sued by odex?

    Dun need to hire a lawyer.

    The reason is very VERY VERY simple. In singapore, if you want to take anyone to court, the onus is on you to provide the evidence to prove that someone is guilty. No one is going to do it for you.

    ODEX might have your IP, but there can be a very simple defense easily available.

    1) If you are on wireless, ODEX have to prove that it is you who download it and no someone who taps into your network. Now, i am not suggesting that for those not on wireless to go and buy one set now and then delete all the anime completely from your harddisk and use this defense...
    BUT then, imagine the amount of hard work that odex have to put in to prove this....case by case. AND it's not going to be easy. IF fact, if u look at it, they have to go by elimination, by proving that it's not YOUR neighbors who are doing it.

    In the same way that if u hire out a car and a robber use it to rob a bank and escape, you as the owner of the car is not resposbilite, unless u knowingly lend it out for such a purpose.

    Based on this alone, for ODEX to even bring you to court, they have to get this ready....and trust me, they dun have enough funds to do this to every one or EVEN one person for that sake of arguement

    Which is why they are going for a scare tactic and trying to settle out of court.

  2. #2
    vince123123
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    Default Re: defense for pple sued by odex?

    There are other burdens of proof that Odex needs to show:

    1. That when you're connected to the tracker, you actually did download. We all know how sometimes torrent downloads stay at 0%.

    2. Even if they can prove you downloaded, can they prove how miuch? 0.1%? 1%? 100%? This has a bearing on damages.

    3. Even if they can prove you downloaded 100%, can they prove you uploaded? How much? This again has a bearing on damages.

    They have many many many things to prove, as Rajah & Tann would have probably told them by now.

  3. #3

    Default Re: defense for pple sued by odex?

    Being too simplistic here.

  4. #4

    Default Re: defense for pple sued by odex?

    I'm sure that if you have an internet connection, you are responsible for whatever is downloaded through that connection.
    If you have a wireless set up, and "didn't know", I don't think that's a good enough excuse.

    Anime downloaders - be scared! Odex is going to catch you, bring you to court and make you pay
    It is the camera, not the photographer.
    my flickr - adamloh.com

  5. #5

    Default Re: defense for pple sued by odex?

    Actually I am more interested to know if they can know exactly what you downloaded or they just know you download xxx gigabyte of info from what websites or P2P.

    I agree to that it should be a court case instead of what seems like extortion now to make the whole case more transparent.

  6. #6

    Default Re: defense for pple sued by odex?

    Quote Originally Posted by adamadam View Post
    I'm sure that if you have an internet connection, you are responsible for whatever is downloaded through that connection.
    If you have a wireless set up, and "didn't know", I don't think that's a good enough excuse.

    Anime downloaders - be scared! Odex is going to catch you, bring you to court and make you pay
    One of committee members of Odex?

  7. #7

    Default Re: defense for pple sued by odex?

    Quote Originally Posted by vince123123 View Post
    There are other burdens of proof that Odex needs to show:

    1. That when you're connected to the tracker, you actually did download. We all know how sometimes torrent downloads stay at 0%.

    2. Even if they can prove you downloaded, can they prove how miuch? 0.1%? 1%? 100%? This has a bearing on damages.

    3. Even if they can prove you downloaded 100%, can they prove you uploaded? How much? This again has a bearing on damages.

    They have many many many things to prove, as Rajah & Tann would have probably told them by now.
    who's Rajah & Tann?

  8. #8
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    Default Re: defense for pple sued by odex?

    Quote Originally Posted by garou12 View Post
    who's Rajah & Tann?

    The quite(very) famous Litigation firm.

  9. #9

    Default Re: defense for pple sued by odex?

    Quote Originally Posted by steadyshot View Post
    The quite famous Litigation firm.
    used by LkY and family?

  10. #10

    Default Re: defense for pple sued by odex?

    Quote Originally Posted by garou12 View Post
    who's Rajah & Tann?
    http://www.rajahtann.com/RajahtannCMS/
    It is the camera, not the photographer.
    my flickr - adamloh.com

  11. #11
    vince123123
    Guests

    Default Re: defense for pple sued by odex?

    They are the lawyers which Odex has engaged to assist them in this matter.

    It is noteworthy however that the letters of demand sent out to downoaders were not sent by a lawyer, but by Odex themselves, presumably because of the threat of criminal proceedings, or it could be a cost-cutting move - these are just speculations.

    Quote Originally Posted by garou12 View Post
    who's Rajah & Tann?

  12. #12
    vince123123
    Guests

    Default Re: defense for pple sued by odex?

    I could be wrong, but I think they are more famous for their IT practice, not so much litigation.
    .
    Quote Originally Posted by steadyshot View Post
    The quite(very) famous Litigation firm.

  13. #13

    Default Re: defense for pple sued by odex?

    Not sure if it's a criminal case or a civil one. If civil, it's not about proving guilt, it's about damages.

    Have you heard the expression, kill a chicken to frighten the monkeys? All they need is to have one high-profile win, this will scare the rest of the downloaders into submission.

    Don't joke, you force them to expend legal resources and expenses to get you, that is going to pile up on top of whatever damages were caused by the downloading itself. Not to mention your own legal expenses of going to court, incl. your own costs for counsel.


    Quote Originally Posted by cosycatus View Post
    Dun need to hire a lawyer.

    The reason is very VERY VERY simple. In singapore, if you want to take anyone to court, the onus is on you to provide the evidence to prove that someone is guilty. No one is going to do it for you.

    ODEX might have your IP, but there can be a very simple defense easily available.

    1) If you are on wireless, ODEX have to prove that it is you who download it and no someone who taps into your network. Now, i am not suggesting that for those not on wireless to go and buy one set now and then delete all the anime completely from your harddisk and use this defense...
    BUT then, imagine the amount of hard work that odex have to put in to prove this....case by case. AND it's not going to be easy. IF fact, if u look at it, they have to go by elimination, by proving that it's not YOUR neighbors who are doing it.

    In the same way that if u hire out a car and a robber use it to rob a bank and escape, you as the owner of the car is not resposbilite, unless u knowingly lend it out for such a purpose.

    Based on this alone, for ODEX to even bring you to court, they have to get this ready....and trust me, they dun have enough funds to do this to every one or EVEN one person for that sake of arguement

    Which is why they are going for a scare tactic and trying to settle out of court.
    Last edited by waileong; 18th August 2007 at 02:43 PM.

  14. #14

    Default Re: defense for pple sued by odex?

    Quote Originally Posted by garou12 View Post
    used by LkY and family?
    Let's not degenerate into that, shall we?

  15. #15

    Default Re: defense for pple sued by odex?

    Quote Originally Posted by drakon09 View Post
    Let's not degenerate into that, shall we?
    It wasn't meant as criticism was just wondering if that's the firm he uses coz i was under the impression the one he does is the best in the country.

  16. #16

    Default Re: defense for pple sued by odex?

    Quote Originally Posted by garou12 View Post
    It wasn't meant as criticism was just wondering if that's the firm he uses coz i was under the impression the one he does is the best in the country.
    My apologies then.

  17. #17
    vince123123
    Guests

    Default Re: defense for pple sued by odex?

    LKY doesn't use Rajah & Tann

  18. #18
    vince123123
    Guests

    Default Re: defense for pple sued by odex?

    For the Virtual Map case, they tried the same trick of kill 1 scare 1000. The only thing int hat case was that they never proceeded to assess damages, and the talk was because they would have trouble proving any significant damages.

    Imagine they win and the judge say, okay, your map is worth $100.

    Odex would have its work cut out for it in this case also to prove damgaes.

    And if all they sue is a poor student, the student declares bankrupt and Odex is stuck with a paper judgment and all its R&T bills to pay.

    Quote Originally Posted by waileong View Post
    Not sure if it's a criminal case or a civil one. If civil, it's not about proving guilt, it's about damages.

    Have you heard the expression, kill a chicken to frighten the monkeys? All they need is to have one high-profile win, this will scare the rest of the downloaders into submission.

    Don't joke, you force them to expend legal resources and expenses to get you, that is going to pile up on top of whatever damages were caused by the downloading itself. Not to mention your own legal expenses of going to court, incl. your own costs for counsel.

  19. #19

    Default Re: defense for pple sued by odex?

    Quote Originally Posted by vince123123 View Post
    For the Virtual Map case, they tried the same trick of kill 1 scare 1000. The only thing int hat case was that they never proceeded to assess damages, and the talk was because they would have trouble proving any significant damages.

    Imagine they win and the judge say, okay, your map is worth $100.

    Odex would have its work cut out for it in this case also to prove damgaes.

    And if all they sue is a poor student, the student declares bankrupt and Odex is stuck with a paper judgment and all its R&T bills to pay.
    interesting. Remind me to consult you for legal services if one of my many family lawyers are busy Respect you for pointing out all the legal technicalities in this place.

  20. #20
    Senior Member azul123's Avatar
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    Default Re: defense for pple sued by odex?

    I am quite surprised actually, why are we so adamant in protecting copyrights to our images but this we are against?

    Anyway, I don't know enough about this to comment further.

    ../azul123

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