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Thread: Permission to snap public performers?

  1. #61
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    Default Re: Permission to snap public performers?

    Honestly, I think sometimes we push for our own rights too hard, and forget that other people has their rights to do their own things too. Either that or we have the tendency to think that our own rights supercede other people's. If things cannot be settled amicably, why push it so hard? The person's not happy and you are not happy. It's bad for the health leh.

    My point is, is taking that picture so important that you wouldn't mind spending the rest of day thinking about that bad incident?
    Last edited by Prismatic; 30th August 2007 at 10:14 AM.

  2. #62
    vince123123
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    Default Re: Permission to snap public performers?

    Last I checked (and I may be wrong), it is only an offence to take a photograph IN a protected place/area and it is not an offence to take a photograph OF a protected place/area FROM a public place.

    Quote Originally Posted by redstone View Post
    Standing on public grounds taking photo of a building is not an offence unless it's a Protected Place / Protected Area which will have the large sign in red saying so.

    Few years ago I was shooting a row of crumbling shophouses in preparation for demolition (moving out furniture, hoarding up the place) from the inside alley (the alley was being hoarded up as well) Then these 2 foreign chinese workers came out and scolded me this and that. blah blah blah, call police, etc. I didn't want to kick up a fuss and just walked away.

    Then round the front I met the supervisor (or foreman, or head). I told him I was doing photography and he just smiled and walked into one of the houses.

  3. #63

    Default Re: Permission to snap public performers?

    Quote Originally Posted by vince123123 View Post
    Last I checked (and I may be wrong), it is only an offence to take a photograph IN a protected place/area and it is not an offence to take a photograph OF a protected place/area FROM a public place.
    Not really, taking photos of protected place is covered under OSA. And I wouldn't even wan to test that.

    Somehow, there is a difference between gazetted area, protected place and protected area.
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  4. #64
    vince123123
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    Default Re: Permission to snap public performers?

    Hmm, can tell us which section you are looking at?

    I only see Section 3(2), which states that:

    3(2): Any person who takes or makes any photograph, drawing, map, measurement, sounding or survey of or within a prohibited place, shall, unless he proves that the thing so taken or made is not prejudicial to the safety or interests of Singapore and is not intended to be directly or indirectly useful to a foreign Power or to an enemy, be guilty of an offence

    Provided that it shall not be an offence under this subsection to take or make, outside a prohibited place, a photograph or drawing in which such place or part thereof is included, unless it is proved that the photograph or drawing is intended to be prejudicial to the safety or interests of Singapore or to be directly or indirectly useful to a foreign Power or to an enemy. This proviso does not apply to any photograph taken from an aircraft.

    Quote Originally Posted by CYRN View Post
    Not really, taking photos of protected place is covered under OSA. And I wouldn't even wan to test that.

    Somehow, there is a difference between gazetted area, protected place and protected area.
    Anyway, the OSA talks about prohibited place and not protected place. Guess we used the wrong terms .

  5. #65
    Senior Member redstone's Avatar
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    Default Re: Permission to snap public performers?

    Well it just happened again!!!

    I was shooting the shophouse at Lavender Street and Kempas Road at Tangs Cuisine. Then this idiot employee stood looking at me angrily. Asked me in angry tone who I was, what was I doing so I replied back in the same tone to all of his questions.




    Mr Knows the law: "HEY, who are you, what are you doing?!"
    Me: "For personal use!"
    Mr Knows the law: "ARE YOU A STUDENT?!"
    Me: " YES!"
    Mr Knows the law: "YOU'RE A STUDENT, FOR PERSONAL USE?!"
    Me: " YES! Is there a problem?"
    Mr Knows the law: "You can't take photo of private property"
    Me: "I'm standing outside private property"
    Mr Knows the law: "But you're taking photo of private property"

    blah blah blah again. I had it and just left. I crossed the road and shoot til I shiok in front of him. I also deliberately shot infront of the shophouse later, but the guy vanished, instead the boss was there, and he didn't say anything.

    Some people think they know the law.

    I'll be going for an outing there soon, if I happen to shoot there and that guy is there to stop me again...
    Last edited by redstone; 30th August 2007 at 05:41 PM.

  6. #66
    vince123123
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    Default Re: Permission to snap public performers?

    Just ignore him and say that you willl report to the police for criminal intimidation.

    Or invite him to call the police if he is not happy.

    Too bad I don't often take photos of this nature so I seldom encounter these know-it-alls.

    Oh by the way, it also helps to take HIS picture I once read a UK/US site about this guy who faces same issues and takes photos of these pple and posts on his site.

    Quote Originally Posted by redstone View Post
    Well it just happened again!!!

    I was shooting the shophouse at Lavender Street and Kempas Road at Tangs Cuisine. Then this idiot employee stood looking at me angrily. Asked me in angry tone who I was, what was I doing so I replied back in the same tone to all of his questions.

    Mr Knows the law: "HEY, who are you, what are you doing?!"
    Me: "For personal use!"
    Mr Knows the law: "ARE YOU A STUDENT?!"
    Me: " YES!"
    Mr Knows the law: "YOU'RE A STUDENT, FOR PERSONAL USE?!"
    Me: " YES! Is there a problem?"
    Mr Knows the law: "You can't take photo of private property"
    Me: "I'm standing outside private property"
    Mr Knows the law: "But you're taking photo of private property"

    blah blah blah again. I had it and just left. I crossed the road and shoot til I shiok in front of him. I also deliberately shot infront of the shophouse later, but the guy vanished, instead the boss was there, and he didn't say anything.

    Some people think they know the law.

    I'll be going for an outing there soon, if I happen to shoot there and that guy is there to stop me again...

  7. #67
    Senior Member redstone's Avatar
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    Default Re: Permission to snap public performers?

    Quote Originally Posted by vince123123 View Post
    Just ignore him and say that you willl report to the police for criminal intimidation.

    Or invite him to call the police if he is not happy.

    Too bad I don't often take photos of this nature so I seldom encounter these know-it-alls.

    Oh by the way, it also helps to take HIS picture I once read a UK/US site about this guy who faces same issues and takes photos of these pple and posts on his site.

    Well, the shop had spoilt it's own public image. And it's lost a potential customer (me).

    I still have a police spokeperson's email to me about the rights of private property owners vs photography rights.

    Next time I'll tell him the law. If the says call the police, I'll wait for the police to arrive with him. See how, during my outing there.

  8. #68
    vince123123
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    Default Re: Permission to snap public performers?

    Next time tell the shop guy that you'll be posting on the incident on the internet. And his photo too if you manage to get it. Ask him if he has an email address so that you can send the link to him

    Quote Originally Posted by redstone View Post
    Well, the shop had spoilt it's own public image. And it's lost a potential customer (me).

    I still have a police spokeperson's email to me about the rights of private property owners vs photography rights.

    Next time I'll tell him the law. If the says call the police, I'll wait for the police to arrive with him. See how, during my outing there.

  9. #69
    Senior Member redstone's Avatar
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    Default Re: Permission to snap public performers?

    Quote Originally Posted by vince123123 View Post
    Next time tell the shop guy that you'll be posting on the incident on the internet. And his photo too if you manage to get it. Ask him if he has an email address so that you can send the link to him
    Here's the letter:

    Dear Sir,

    I refer to our email of 20 Jul 2006.

    Any agreement is between the person and the owners of the building, whose
    security guards act as their agents. As it is a private premises, they can
    impose conditions, which have to be complied. Taking photographs of a
    private building outside the private premises is not a criminal offence.
    However, buildings which are gazetted as Prohibited or Protected have
    restrictions on photography.

    Thank you and best regards.


    Paul Tan
    for Quality Service Manager
    Singapore Police Force
    I hate people who abuse their rights/power or who thinks they have the right. For I'm protective of my rights. Also I'm not the kind of person who'll pick a fight, so I refuse to argue with him.

    As far as I know I'm not commiting a criminal offense so I've got nothing to fear. Call police? Be my guest. I have all the time in the world. I'll wait with you for the police to come.

    Or maybe I should say I've heard that the food is quite good and I'm writing a food review about the place in a forum, but sadly not anymore as the service is horrible. See how he'll react.
    Last edited by redstone; 30th August 2007 at 06:33 PM.

  10. #70
    vince123123
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    Default Re: Permission to snap public performers?

    Yeap that is a good idea too, maybe you should ask him to call his boss out while you are at it then he'll really start to feel the heat heheh

    Quote Originally Posted by redstone View Post
    Or maybe I should say I've heard that the food is quite good and I'm writing a food review about the place in a forum, but sadly not anymore as the service is horrible. See how he'll react.

  11. #71
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    Default Re: Permission to snap public performers?

    Quote Originally Posted by redstone View Post
    Here's the letter:



    I hate people who abuse their rights/power or who thinks they have the right. For I'm protective of my rights. Also I'm not the kind of person who'll pick a fight, so I refuse to argue with him.

    As far as I know I'm not commiting a criminal offense so I've got nothing to fear. Call police? Be my guest. I have all the time in the world. I'll wait with you for the police to come.

    Or maybe I should say I've heard that the food is quite good and I'm writing a food review about the place in a forum, but sadly not anymore as the service is horrible. See how he'll react.
    things work both ways. while you expect others to respect your rights, it's good to give others their spatial comfort as well. i'm sure you'll get suspicious as well when someone loiters around your property with a big camera. sometimes in street shooting, it's good to show some tactfulness. if it's just places you're shooting, one of the things you can try to do is to ''announce'' your presence by standing around the place and observe the happenings, and see whether others around are comfortable with it. as much as people around you don't own your equipment or pictures, you don't own the public space as well. i think it's bad upbringing if a photog continues shooting his/her own ways when members of public displayed negative reactions against his/her actions.
    Last edited by eikin; 30th August 2007 at 06:48 PM.

  12. #72
    Senior Member redstone's Avatar
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    Default Re: Permission to snap public performers?

    Quote Originally Posted by eikin View Post
    things work both ways. while you expect others to respect your rights, it's good to give others their spatial comfort as well. i'm sure you'll get suspicious as well when someone loiters around your property with a big camera. sometimes in street shooting, it's good to show some tactfulness. if it's just places you're shooting, one of the things you can try to do is to ''announce'' your presence by standing around the place and observe the happenings, and see whether others around are comfortable with it. as much as people around you don't own your equipment or pictures, you don't own the public space as well.
    I know my rights. I wasn't even taking photos of the shop, I'm shooting the building upwards from the pavement (can't see shop sign, customers, anything). Abstract photography. I'm not on private property and this guy comes along and scolds me thinking he's right. He is not even the boss. The boss ignored me while the worker scolds me suddenly.

    I didn't argue back cos I don't like fighting (words, physical or otherwise). I rarely shoot people, and I don't like when I'm minding my own business and someone scolds me for something I have a right to do and since I'm not offending anyone or putting a bad name to the shop at that point in time.

  13. #73
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    Default Re: Permission to snap public performers?

    actually it all simply boils down to this - having rights to shoot smth is one thing; and being rude and offensive is another.

    had the guy the threadstarter met been polite, i'm sure the threadstarter would adhere to the busker's request. otherwise, anyone would be in a foul mood, photography or not. but of course if the threadstarter refused to budge, then the busker would naturally be irritated.

    btw i've met that same guy and i informed him that we have the rights to take photos of him, but walked off anyway. i could do with one less rude person in my daily life. and i'm sure you can too.

  14. #74
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    Default Re: Permission to snap public performers?

    Quote Originally Posted by cjtune View Post
    Besides the busker above, I have also been scolded by flea market sellers. I have been doing well with a don't-give-a-damn attitude. At least my experience with mall security guards have been amicable...
    Maybe you can STOMP him....

  15. #75

    Default Re: Permission to snap public performers?

    Wow now that's just plain rude and nasty! He's not a true performer!

    I once asked this band, Sino Si Kat?, (a Filipino band) during the 5th Manila Jazz Fest and they accepted me warmly and allowed me to take their photo --- Now that's a good band!

  16. #76
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    Default Re: Permission to snap public performers?

    always 2 sides of a coin. some people are camera-shy and some simply love to poise in front of the cam (think people like, Steven Tan if you get the drift). on a personal basis, i dont like to be photographed and 1 of my friend got it real bad from me when i was having a bad day and he took candid pics of me just like that.

    no one is right or wrong, just have to match good photographers with people with good spot! hehe!!

    disclaimer : just my personal views, don't lambast me okay
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  17. #77
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    Default Re: Permission to snap public performers?

    If you are meaning Steven Lim, then you are bring great shame to Steven Tan man.
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  18. #78

    Default Re: Permission to snap public performers?

    Quote Originally Posted by redstone View Post
    Standing on public grounds taking photo of a building is not an offence unless it's a Protected Place / Protected Area which will have the large sign in red saying so.

    Few years ago I was shooting a row of crumbling shophouses in preparation for demolition (moving out furniture, hoarding up the place) from the inside alley (the alley was being hoarded up as well) Then these 2 foreign chinese workers came out and scolded me this and that. blah blah blah, call police, etc. I didn't want to kick up a fuss and just walked away.

    Then round the front I met the supervisor (or foreman, or head). I told him I was doing photography and he just smiled and walked into one of the houses.

    recently i take shots of the ongoing construction , and the supervisor actually ask me to leave or he`ll call police, the construction is on the condon ?? why ?? sigh..and i told him i was doing project for my sch , on construction sigh

    another case is

    taking picture of secondary school , but got being chase off by the security guard

  19. #79
    Senior Member redstone's Avatar
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    Default Re: Permission to snap public performers?

    Quote Originally Posted by antonnius View Post
    recently i take shots of the ongoing construction , and the supervisor actually ask me to leave or he`ll call police, the construction is on the condon ?? why ?? sigh..and i told him i was doing project for my sch , on construction sigh

    another case is

    taking picture of secondary school , but got being chase off by the security guard
    That's not an offence. For me I'll wait with him for the police to come.

  20. #80
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    Default Re: Permission to snap public performers?

    Quote Originally Posted by Prismatic View Post
    Honestly, I think sometimes we push for our own rights too hard, and forget that other people has their rights to do their own things too. Either that or we have the tendency to think that our own rights supercede other people's. If things cannot be settled amicably, why push it so hard? The person's not happy and you are not happy. It's bad for the health leh.

    My point is, is taking that picture so important that you wouldn't mind spending the rest of day thinking about that bad incident?
    on a bigger and unrelated aspect to rights, social manners is the point, a responsibility of everyone including photographers and the public. photographers should show tacts before or after shooting (depending on type of photography) while the public should also show proper manners if they feel a subjective feeling of being infringed on.

    each incident has their own situations. so if the story of the ts is truely reflective of the whole situation (it is afterall still a side of the story), then the fault goes to that aggressive/abusive person. and if it is not an isolated incident with many people experiencing it with the same person, then we all know it - and i think it is good to circulate such information. not everyone copes well with such bad experiences, and it would be good for some of us to avoid this person.

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