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Thread: Creative .... which way u'r goin...?

  1. #81

    Default Re: Creative .... which way u'r goin...?

    Quote Originally Posted by tchoonyong View Post
    dont look at just the figures but the trends. Apple is all about lifestyle windows is all about monopolization. Figures can be recreate to make you think that is how the market fared. All pcs in the whole world are all pre installed with windows which consists of zillions of distributors so this make up the percentage as for mac they only distributed their own products that is one distributor so this make only a minor percentage of the markets.this is how the market calculated their percentage dont be blind folded by the market. They are great cheaters.
    I rather believe my eyes than stat. Even if there are stat that say lesser PC owners converted to Mac but around me, there are many PC to Mac owners...so from my point of view, there are more converts.

  2. #82

    Default Re: Creative .... which way u'r goin...?

    Quote Originally Posted by swampthing View Post
    My housemate went from Mac to PC, as well as two good friends I know who used to be die-hard about Macs. Seriously, strip away the marketing and the Mac really isn't a big deal.
    i beg to differ...i went from a pc to a mac and realised that for me anyway, pc means Piece of Crap, i had a sony vaio.

    regarding creative, its one product competing with many and frankly regarding the u.s. market, it's just seen as a cheap man's ipod. an ipod says hip, cool...creative basically says cheap or even copycat. i'm telling you this from a u.s. point of view. people in the states wil not care to research a product and say oh but they did this first or they are cheaper for same price...it's about image and that creative does not have that. it's image is cheap. cheaply made, and nothing great. i mean look at microsoft's zune or whatever that flop is called. in some ways it may be better than an ipod, but the ipod is the industry standard or leader in people's eyes. unless creative does what its name implies...does something "creative," ...like you always hear, "more good times ahead."

    truly, creative is best known as cheap charly speakers in the states so from that point of view anything they do will be hard to get away from a cheap charlie stigma in the states. i mean, why you buy a benz as opposed to nissan...image! nissan cheaper, might even have more features and both get you from a to b...but for image reasons, people gonna take a benz. what you rather pick up a hot date in...a benz or nissan? ...just like what would you rather people see you fiddling with in the mrt, an ipod or creative? i dun think he is smart for buying something that might be cheaper and has more featrures even if it may be true. again, it's about image.

    n the reason i talking about the states was because TS opened by saying how creative losing money in the states...so i am telling you why, creative is seen as having cheap charlie goods. TS, ever stop to think that creative lost out because the market is saturated and Zune entered cutting into creative's share? for what it's worth, other players will get back some of the share simply because iphone seems to have replaced any newer ipod models, however, creative just needs new minds, or change the name, nothing creative from them and they need to change their image regarding u.s. perceptions of the company. if not, "more good times ahead."

    like i said, TS was partially talking about u.s. market so i'm giving my opinion regarding u.s. market. besides, if creative cannot even dominate its home market, hehe, what you think?

  3. #83

    Default Re: Creative .... which way u'r goin...?

    Quote Originally Posted by Hawaiisg View Post
    i beg to differ...i went from a pc to a mac and realised that for me anyway, pc means Piece of Crap, i had a sony vaio.

    regarding creative, its one product competing with many and frankly regarding the u.s. market, it's just seen as a cheap man's ipod. an ipod says hip, cool...creative basically says cheap or even copycat. i'm telling you this from a u.s. point of view. people in the states wil not care to research a product and say oh but they did this first or they are cheaper for same price...it's about image and that creative does not have that. it's image is cheap. cheaply made, and nothing great. i mean look at microsoft's zune or whatever that flop is called. in some ways it may be better than an ipod, but the ipod is the industry standard or leader in people's eyes. unless creative does what its name implies...does something "creative," ...like you always hear, "more good times ahead."

    truly, creative is best known as cheap charly speakers in the states so from that point of view anything they do will be hard to get away from a cheap charlie stigma in the states. i mean, why you buy a benz as opposed to nissan...image! nissan cheaper, might even have more features and both get you from a to b...but for image reasons, people gonna take a benz. what you rather pick up a hot date in...a benz or nissan? ...just like what would you rather people see you fiddling with in the mrt, an ipod or creative? i dun think he is smart for buying something that might be cheaper and has more featrures even if it may be true. again, it's about image.

    n the reason i talking about the states was because TS opened by saying how creative losing money in the states...so i am telling you why, creative is seen as having cheap charlie goods. TS, ever stop to think that creative lost out because the market is saturated and Zune entered cutting into creative's share? for what it's worth, other players will get back some of the share simply because iphone seems to have replaced any newer ipod models, however, creative just needs new minds, or change the name, nothing creative from them and they need to change their image regarding u.s. perceptions of the company. if not, "more good times ahead."

    like i said, TS was partially talking about u.s. market so i'm giving my opinion regarding u.s. market. besides, if creative cannot even dominate its home market, hehe, what you think?
    So, how to change image???

  4. #84
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    Default Re: Creative .... which way u'r goin...?

    Thread is hereby closed as this has degenerated into a Apple vs Creative bashing, though we all know who will be the eventual winner.

  5. #85
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    Default Re: Creative .... which way u'r goin...?

    wah.. really thread closed?
    chezburgr i can haz?

  6. #86
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    Default Re: Creative .... which way u'r goin...?

    Quote Originally Posted by nottipiglet View Post
    Anyway, I still support him. I put $11K in his stock and I am not pulling out.
    I dun wanna remind u but remember.... IPC?

  7. #87
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    Default Re: Creative .... which way u'r goin...?

    Quote Originally Posted by Sim Wong Hoo
    ““Actually, to me it’s a big let-down: we’re expecting a good fight but they’re coming out with something that’s five generations older. It’s our first generation MuVo One product feature, without display, just have a (shuffle feature). We had that—that’s a four-year-old product. So I think the whole industry will just laugh at it, because the flash people—it’s worse than the cheapest Chinese player. Even the cheap, cheap Chinese brand today has display and has FM. They don’t have this kind of thing, and they expect to come out with a fight; I think it’s a non-starter to begin with.”
    Just recently they launched the Creative Stone...

    Image from Creative website.
    http://www.creative.com/products/pro...&product=16424

    so.. where's the creativity?

    Those holding to Creative Shares.. better dump and save whatever you have left.
    “How fortunate for leaders that men do not think.” - Adolf Hitler

  8. #88

    Default Re: Creative .... which way u'r goin...?

    Quote Originally Posted by yanyewkay View Post
    Just recently they launched the Creative Stone...

    Image from Creative website.
    http://www.creative.com/products/pro...&product=16424

    so.. where's the creativity?

    Those holding to Creative Shares.. better dump and save whatever you have left.
    Zen "stone"....."rock" in colour..HAHAHAHAHA i thought toots the frog, the sentosa mascot was bad, but this is it! this is number 1...well maybe toots the frog is still worse.

    is it an ipod shuffle wannabee? calling all primary school students, creative has a job a for you in their marketing department... hehe
    this is exactly why it is known as a cheap charlie brand, how you gonna call yourself creative and put out this kind of marketing garbage. i find this hard to even impress a primary school kid with creative's oh so fun and "creative" play on words.

    it's entireably laffable...

  9. #89

    Default Re: Creative .... which way u'r goin...?

    Quote Originally Posted by tchoonyong View Post
    dont look at just the figures but the trends. Apple is all about lifestyle windows is all about monopolization. Figures can be recreate to make you think that is how the market fared. All pcs in the whole world are all pre installed with windows which consists of zillions of distributors so this make up the percentage as for mac they only distributed their own products that is one distributor so this make only a minor percentage of the markets.this is how the market calculated their percentage dont be blind folded by the market. They are great cheaters.
    my hero! its exactly what i've been saying.

  10. #90

    Default Re: Creative .... which way u'r goin...?

    Quote Originally Posted by Hawaiisg View Post
    i beg to differ...i went from a pc to a mac and realised that for me anyway, pc means Piece of Crap, i had a sony vaio.

    regarding creative, its one product competing with many and frankly regarding the u.s. market, it's just seen as a cheap man's ipod. an ipod says hip, cool...creative basically says cheap or even copycat. i'm telling you this from a u.s. point of view. people in the states wil not care to research a product and say oh but they did this first or they are cheaper for same price...it's about image and that creative does not have that. it's image is cheap. cheaply made, and nothing great. i mean look at microsoft's zune or whatever that flop is called. in some ways it may be better than an ipod, but the ipod is the industry standard or leader in people's eyes. unless creative does what its name implies...does something "creative," ...like you always hear, "more good times ahead."

    truly, creative is best known as cheap charly speakers in the states so from that point of view anything they do will be hard to get away from a cheap charlie stigma in the states. i mean, why you buy a benz as opposed to nissan...image! nissan cheaper, might even have more features and both get you from a to b...but for image reasons, people gonna take a benz. what you rather pick up a hot date in...a benz or nissan? ...just like what would you rather people see you fiddling with in the mrt, an ipod or creative? i dun think he is smart for buying something that might be cheaper and has more featrures even if it may be true. again, it's about image.

    n the reason i talking about the states was because TS opened by saying how creative losing money in the states...so i am telling you why, creative is seen as having cheap charlie goods. TS, ever stop to think that creative lost out because the market is saturated and Zune entered cutting into creative's share? for what it's worth, other players will get back some of the share simply because iphone seems to have replaced any newer ipod models, however, creative just needs new minds, or change the name, nothing creative from them and they need to change their image regarding u.s. perceptions of the company. if not, "more good times ahead."

    like i said, TS was partially talking about u.s. market so i'm giving my opinion regarding u.s. market. besides, if creative cannot even dominate its home market, hehe, what you think?
    Well said. Well said.

  11. #91

    Default Re: Creative .... which way u'r goin...?

    Quote Originally Posted by tchoonyong View Post
    dont look at just the figures but the trends. Apple is all about lifestyle windows is all about monopolization. Figures can be recreate to make you think that is how the market fared. All pcs in the whole world are all pre installed with windows which consists of zillions of distributors so this make up the percentage as for mac they only distributed their own products that is one distributor so this make only a minor percentage of the markets.this is how the market calculated their percentage dont be blind folded by the market. They are great cheaters.
    ?

    So you think that Mac will take over the world? Lolll.

    Apple MP3 market definitely solid, computer? Phone?


  12. #92

    Default Re: Creative .... which way u'r goin...?

    that kitty sure doesn't look amused

  13. #93

    Default Re: Creative .... which way u'r goin...?

    Quote Originally Posted by night86mare View Post
    ?

    So you think that Mac will take over the world? Lolll.

    Apple MP3 market definitely solid, computer? Phone?
    thought this thread was about creative? so doesnt matter which way apple goes...or if mac will take over the world right? the big question is what is creative doing to reinvent themselves? it is so very convenient to drag apple into the picture and slam the ipod. but even without the ipod, creative is fighting a losing battle against the other PC-based mp3 player manufacturers like samsung, iriver and sony. so how is creative going to entice the local population to buy its products?
    Last edited by madmacs; 10th August 2007 at 10:40 PM.

  14. #94

    Default Re: Creative .... which way u'r goin...?

    Quote Originally Posted by madmacs View Post
    thought this thread was about creative? so doesnt matter which way apple goes...or if mac will take over the world right? the big question is what is creative doing to reinvent themselves? it is so very convenient to drag apple into the picture and slam the ipod. but even without the ipod, creative is fighting a losing battle against the other PC-based mp3 player manufacturers like samsung, iriver and sony. so how is creative going to entice the local population to buy its products?
    No la, people drag in PC versus Mac what. =(

    I think the ipod is fine and dandy, even though I refuse to use it; the iPhone is quite buggy though! So I hear.

    As to what Creative does, really not my problem. There are success stories which keep getting more and more successful. There are success stories which blow. And you can have the best resources, the best investment team, just like sometimes people have - putting together the dream team that is supposedly the ultimate, Nobel prize winners etc and they still end up getting defeated by the market - I'm sure you've heard it all before.

    Creative is Mr Sim's problem, teehee, and I'm not a shareholder. I can live with any MP3 player, and would definitely feel sad that one of Singapore's "giants" might crumble eventually, but it is not my life. Nor my place to worry for him/Creative.
    Last edited by night86mare; 10th August 2007 at 11:06 PM.

  15. #95
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    Default Re: Creative .... which way u'r goin...?

    Quote Originally Posted by night86mare View Post
    I think the ipod is fine and dandy, even though I refuse to use it; the iPhone is quite buggy though! So I hear.
    Sorry to barge in like that, but how do you know that the iPod is fine and dandy if you've refused to use it? How do you know for sure that the iPhone is buggy simply because you hear so?

    It is funny that for the past 20 years, I often hear friends and relatives telling me that the Mac is incompatible with Windows, that the Mac is hard to use, etc, when they never even lay their hands on a Mac before....

    Well, I think it all boils down to perception la, or one that is created by the companies. When Mac started, it was marketed to a small segment of people, professionals in the graphics and design industry, and "For the Rest of Us". It was hence made to be like a Benz and simply priced itself out of the common market.

    Microsoft came in at the height of the PC revolution, and it strategised itself to reach out to the common people, the majority of the people which was pretty well left out by Apple. MS capitalised on this very well, and started to license its OS with almost every PC that was sold.

    Human are habitual creatures. When they've gotten used to a certain system or a way of life, it is indeed very hard to change. Thus, when you've gotten an OS loaded into almost every PC, and made affordable, alot of people are going to buy them and become used to them, and would be very reluctant to switch, especially when the barely competing OS and hardware has prohibitive pricing.

    When that Amelio guy took over as Apple's CEO, he thought he could reverse the trend by lowering the pirce of the Mac hardware and licensed out its OS at the same time. However, by this time, it is too late. Almost everybody has gotten used to a PC. And by making the Mac to look like a PC, it had lost its market differentiation. The almost fatal blow came when profit margins started to drop drastically when they too lowered their price and worse of all, not only did Apple have to compete with PC for market share, it had to compete with the makers of the Mac clones!

    And I think that Mr Sim can draw some lessons from Apple: when they came into the MP3 market, the iPod as already a resounding success and it was an almost impossible trend to oveturn. Like I said, the iPod is about a trend and a lifestyle that is a marketing success, while the Creative's MP3 is just another MP3. Being just another MP3, it had to content with the many other MP3s that's on the market. To put it simply, it did not have a market differentiatio to begin with.

    I think that Mr Sim would do well to focus back on what it did very well from the beginning : the Soundcard. Back then, it was a revelation, and Creative could have pursued that line and develop the soundcard to target at the very hip and trendy industry. It was the market leader back then, and could have ridden on the coattail of such a resounding success and overwhelming market share and squeeze everybody out of business.

    Only if Creative had the marketing genius of Apple and the business acumen of Microsoft....but alas, it didn't live up to its name, Creative....

  16. #96

    Default Re: Creative .... which way u'r goin...?

    If u wanna talk PC VS Apple... here's my 2 cents.

    Windoze rules the corporates. You could easily administer and secure thousands of PC single handedly, locking down all the PCs and Laptops with Group Policies(not forgeting physical security such password protect the BIOS, disable booting from other devices and locking the chasis). We run automatic software roll outs, system patching, software inventory and power management(Automatic shut down and remote PC wake up) on all the PCs in the company. All these which are important to a corporate can be easily done on the PC.

    You can't do the same to the spoilt Macs users in a corporate. Mac users have this... I'm different attitude (Dun u dare to enforce your company computer policies on my beloved MAC). Every MAC users that i know runs as their own admins on their Macs(they don't use the NIS or any Kerberos authentication). User install their own applications... including unlicensed softwares. It'll be nightmarish even in asset management portion for a corporate.

    So.. That my answer's to why Mac Market share isn't that high although home users are increasingly leaning towards it. Even Linux are easier to secure and roll out on corporates as most Linux users know that superuser(root) is not a given right in the company.

  17. #97
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    Default Re: Creative .... which way u'r goin...?

    First of all, my respect for Sim W H for daring to try and succeeding.

    The need for his sound card was born out of IBM's ill-conceived original design for the IBM PC.
    It created a ready market for him and made him a billionaire.

    But Creative has reached a cross road and it made a mistake in identifying MP3 as the next great thing.

    Also, I find the design and product finish to be poor, when I saw some Creative products in computer exhibitions. Detailing is not there.

    You find this in Sony products.

    The problem Sim W H faces is not new. Every business tycoon, Corporate head or PM or emperor has the same problem.
    They tend to assemble around them a group of YESmen who would not dare to point out that all is not well and that the ship is sailing in the wrong direction; because they have too much to lose if the TopMan gets angry.

    Also because there are too many unprincipled hopefuls eager to capitalise on this and destroy his career and squeeze themselves into the inner circle of YESmen to replace the one who was brave enough to tell the Topman he is wrong.

  18. #98

    Default Re: Creative .... which way u'r goin...?

    Quote Originally Posted by AhSeng View Post
    If u wanna talk PC VS Apple... here's my 2 cents.

    Windoze rules the corporates. You could easily administer and secure thousands of PC single handedly, locking down all the PCs and Laptops with Group Policies(not forgeting physical security such password protect the BIOS, disable booting from other devices and locking the chasis). We run automatic software roll outs, system patching, software inventory and power management(Automatic shut down and remote PC wake up) on all the PCs in the company. All these which are important to a corporate can be easily done on the PC.

    You can't do the same to the spoilt Macs users in a corporate. Mac users have this... I'm different attitude (Dun u dare to enforce your company computer policies on my beloved MAC). Every MAC users that i know runs as their own admins on their Macs(they don't use the NIS or any Kerberos authentication). User install their own applications... including unlicensed softwares. It'll be nightmarish even in asset management portion for a corporate.

    So.. That my answer's to why Mac Market share isn't that high although home users are increasingly leaning towards it. Even Linux are easier to secure and roll out on corporates as most Linux users know that superuser(root) is not a given right in the company.
    you speak just like BIG BROTHER

  19. #99
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    Default Re: Creative .... which way u'r goin...?

    Hmm...... hope that some one from Creative and some one from those phone company (Motorola especially) could see this idea.

    This idea, which I think of few years back, using wire and therefore, got rejected due to this reason? Then when Bluetooth already on the market but still new, they also reject this idea.

    As I now own the Motorola K3, it does have MP3 function. But one weak thing is the battery life!!! Compare to a MP3 player, the battery life is way too short!!! Since Motorola is having those Bluetooth ear piece and why not, Creative invent a MP3 player with A2DP and therefore, we could listen to more songs n spend less time on recharging? On top of that, the MP3 will pause during incoming call and resume the tracks once call end. Since motorola got a few nice looking Bluetooth headset (S9 for example), I think Creative should come out a MP3 with that function.

    Maybe Apply might snatch this idea.
    Only Sony device mostly, haha!

  20. #100
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    Default Re: Creative .... which way u'r goin...?

    Quote Originally Posted by madmacs View Post
    you speak just like BIG BROTHER
    I think he's got a point....Mac users are quite individualistic, and mostly from the creative sector, that's the industry the Mac was targetted at since day 1. The Mac were marketed as "For the Rest of Us" and then were told to "Think Different", remember?

    If you can still remember the 1984 ad, the Mac was portrayed as the one individual that sledgehammered the screen which Big Brother was speaking from, to a homogenous looking crowd wearing drab prisoner clothing.

    Unfortunately, Microsoft has already a stranglehold on PCs and have 'brainwashed' most computer users, thinking that other systems can't do this and can't do that. This belief, will be hard to break.

    I'm no techie, but if you ask someone who is IT savvy, I'm quite sure that admin controlling thingy is possible on the Mac, and possibly even more secure, as the OS is being built on the Unix platform, which many defence agencies' system are being built on as well.

    Since the Windows platform has been so deeply entrenched in corporate world, I think many will be reluctant to switch, as this may need both software and hardware overhaul, which can prove costly.

    Back to Creative, yeah, they definitely made a big mistake in being a follower into the MP3 market.

    Haha, how to be leader of the industry when you are always trying to copy other's "Best Practice" and not come up with something completely new of your own? This applies not only to Creative, but throughout the companies here in Singapore.

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