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Thread: Let's pray for the safe release of the Korean hostages

  1. #41
    Senior Member azul123's Avatar
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    Default Re: Let's pray for the safe release of the Korean hostages

    Quote Originally Posted by microcosm View Post
    I strongly urge you guys not to go towards this line of discussion. You are talking as if you understand what they really feel towards their belief. Like Extreme Muslims believing in Jihad, these are Christians that believed in going the extra mile. When they succeed, and help many around the world, not much people applaud their efforts, but when something like this happen, the condemnations come. One believe in helping people, the other believe in detonating a bomb... so?? We will get nowhere with this discussion. It is their freedom to choose their religion and believe. The problem here is with the media monkeys. They are heating things up for ratings.

    But MOST IMPORTANTLY... stay out of religious discussions in here. This is not ClubRELIGION. Its ClubSNAP.

    Feel free to post well wishes in this thread for the Koreans held hostage, but please, don't go to the other extreme to condemn their church. I am not defending the church, by the way. This is their calling and the media is playing this to the max for ratings. Honestly, if they have to die for their believes, then they have done themselves a great service. Treasure awaits them in heaven for those who lose their life for the Lord will gain a lot from it in heaven. If you understand the bible... (shall not comment further).

    Korea church : 23 in peril
    Extreme Muslims : 230 suicide bombers and still growing... how come the media is not talking about their "beliefs"?

    I hope I am making sense here...
    I think you should heed your own advice. You know not what you are talking about... Extreme Muslims believing in Jihad?

    All Muslims strive for Jihad, but what consititute Jihad is a different matter, if you know nothing about Muslims, you should at least refrain from referring to it.

    ../azul123

  2. #42

    Default Re: Let's pray for the safe release of the Korean hostages

    Quote Originally Posted by azul123 View Post
    I think you should heed your own advice. You know not what you are talking about... Extreme Muslims believing in Jihad?

    All Muslims strive for Jihad, but what consititute Jihad is a different matter, if you know nothing about Muslims, you should at least refrain from referring to it.

    ../azul123
    I should have re-worded it then... about terrorism and those extremists. My apologies.

    This is precisely my point, my friend. Keep religion out of ClubSNAP.

    Thanks for clearing this up. I have learnt something new. And please, keep hostility to a minimum in here. I am not against any religion. Muslims included.

  3. #43
    Senior Member azul123's Avatar
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    Default Re: Let's pray for the safe release of the Korean hostages

    Quote Originally Posted by microcosm View Post
    I should have re-worded it then... about terrorism and those extremists. My apologies.

    This is precisely my point, my friend. Keep religion out of ClubSNAP.

    Thanks for clearing this up. I have learnt something new. And please, keep hostility to a minimum in here. I am not against any religion. Muslims included.
    I understand that.. no offence taken. But please re-read what you posted, I know you are not against any religion but you are not being objectively fair when you clearly sided one over the other and it doesn't help when you quoted from the Bible either.

    So my point is you should heed your own advice.

    ../azul123

  4. #44
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    Default Re: Let's pray for the safe release of the Korean hostages

    Quote Originally Posted by garou12 View Post
    Exactly Korea can't do anything because the prisoners are under US control. But i do think the US could send a strike force in to rescue the hostages...after all its the least that they should do...in recent years the US has been guilty of demanding help from its allies but refusing to do anything to help them in return...the US really should do something about the situation. Casualities of war is just a conveient excuse for the hostage situation because the US would never let that happen to its people.
    The Taliban aren't stupid either. They have held the hostages in different location, and this makes rescue operations very difficult.

    It is sad indeed that these idiots are making use of the innocent their cause. To negotiate and compromise is not a solution either, as this will embolden them to carry out similar operation in the future.

    The Taliban will be running out of options soon, as the longer this saga stretches, the more support they'll lose from the Afghans, and they may be betrayed even by their own people. If they start shooting the hostages, they'll soon run out of male hostages soon, as there are only 4 left in the entourage. Not that I want to see the latter happens.

    If I were the Afghan government, I'll shoot one Taliban prisoner for every one of the hostage they kill, starting from the highest ranking one.

    In my opinion, as cruel as I may seem, if we were to fight terrorists like that, do not take prisoners, just shoot to kill each everyone of them. They'll then run out of excuses to kidnap the innocent.

    Human rights group will scream, but what do they know? Human right in such instances will only hamper our progress and not helping at all. In war, human right should not be made applicable. In practice, I'm sure many human rights issue are compromised anyway.

    Not that I don't respect human rights, but I believe in the right of the human as a community, and this should prevail over individual rights in this instance.
    Last edited by hobbit6003; 9th August 2007 at 12:31 PM.

  5. #45

    Default Re: Let's pray for the safe release of the Korean hostages

    Quote Originally Posted by hobbit6003 View Post
    If I were the Afghan government, I'll shoot one Taliban prisoner for every one of the hostage they kill, starting from the highest ranking one.
    Doing that might just push them to kill all the hostages in one sweep and mount more attacks...not the best solution...

  6. #46
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    Default Re: Let's pray for the safe release of the Korean hostages

    Quote Originally Posted by garou12 View Post
    Doing that might just push them to kill all the hostages in one sweep and mount more attacks...not the best solution...
    Nah, they won't do that, if they do, they've just lost their bargaining chips in one fell swoop. Why would they want to do that?

  7. #47

    Default Re: Let's pray for the safe release of the Korean hostages

    Quote Originally Posted by hobbit6003 View Post
    Nah, they won't do that, if they do, they've just lost their bargaining chips in one fell swoop. Why would they want to do that?
    To prove a point: which is we're not afraid of the West and we're willing to do whatever it takes to further our cause. Belief is a very powerful thing. You can't change a belief but you can with ideas...think about that. This whole hostage situation has never been about bargaining. Its been about the Taliban proving a point with the west: Despite all you've done, we're still here.
    Last edited by garou12; 9th August 2007 at 07:11 PM.

  8. #48
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    Default Re: Let's pray for the safe release of the Korean hostages

    Quote Originally Posted by azul123 View Post
    I think you should heed your own advice. You know not what you are talking about... Extreme Muslims believing in Jihad?

    All Muslims strive for Jihad, but what consititute Jihad is a different matter, if you know nothing about Muslims, you should at least refrain from referring to it.

    ../azul123
    Just to add to azul's response:

    To say that these extremists are doing Jihad is doing Islam a disservice, they are not doing Jihad! Jihad is about finding out what is good in life and is a search within oneself, not about killing or killing innocent people. These extremists are just abusing Islam to gain power over the people, since there are so many misunderstandings among people of different religions perhaps the below article is a good starting point to get a better understanding of (the real) Jihad:

    http://www.mediamonitors.net/shaziamirza2.html


    To me I don't see these extremists as Muslims anyway......I think Mohammad didn't mean the religion to be as what the Taliban wants.

    HS

  9. #49
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    Default Re: Let's pray for the safe release of the Korean hostages

    Quote Originally Posted by garou12 View Post
    To prove a point: which is we're not afraid of the West and we're willing to do whatever it takes to further our cause. Belief is a very powerful thing. You can't change a belief but you can with ideas...think about that. This whole hostage situation has never been about bargaining. Its been about the Taliban proving a point with the west: Despite all you've done, we're still here.
    Yup, belief is a very powerful thing indeed, and it's not going to be easy to change that over one or two generations I guess.

    While I think it is difficult to speculate their motives for taking hostages, but it is best not to give them excuses to do so. If they truly want to demonstrate to the world about their powerful presence, it may have better impact to do something devastating and quick, rather than treading down a slow and unpredictable path of taking hostages.

    One lesson, at least for me in such a saga, is that when dealing with terrorists, just take no prisoners.

    Like taking antibiotics against bacteria infection, you want a dosage that would totally annilhate and eradicate the bacterium from your body, not just to maim them and let them learn your ways and forge a more formidable resistant strain that may come back to haunt you.

  10. #50

    Default Re: Let's pray for the safe release of the Korean hostages

    Quote Originally Posted by hobbit6003 View Post
    Yup, belief is a very powerful thing indeed, and it's not going to be easy to change that over one or two generations I guess.

    While I think it is difficult to speculate their motives for taking hostages, but it is best not to give them excuses to do so. If they truly want to demonstrate to the world about their powerful presence, it may have better impact to do something devastating and quick, rather than treading down a slow and unpredictable path of taking hostages.

    One lesson, at least for me in such a saga, is that when dealing with terrorists, just take no prisoners.
    thing is with hostage taking there is an element of control there...the kidnapper will feel that they are the ones with all the advantages...there's also the potential of making money off of this if they decide to ransom them or they could also just brain wash the hostages into becoming sleepers for them...so there's alot of possible reasons why they'd do this. all potentially devastating.

  11. #51
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    Default Re: Let's pray for the safe release of the Korean hostages

    Quote Originally Posted by garou12 View Post
    thing is with hostage taking there is an element of control there...the kidnapper will feel that they are the ones with all the advantages...there's also the potential of making money off of this if they decide to ransom them or they could also just brain wash the hostages into becoming sleepers for them...so there's alot of possible reasons why they'd do this. all potentially devastating.
    Yeah, there are many more possible motives. And yes, they are potentially devastating, which can work the opposite ways as well.

    The longer they hold their hostages, the more likely things will work against them. Like I said, people may turn against them, the moment they realised that they do not have a strong cause to do so, other than wanting to exchange for their comrades.

    The moment they are holding out, they are being put on the defensive, especially when the authorities do not respond to their demands. And the longer the impasse, more weaknesses of theirs will be further exposed and get exploited.

    Furthermore, the religion forbids harming of the female hostages, and if they cross the line, they cannot claim that they do it for their religion. What are they gonna do after the last male hostage is killed?

    Worst if they decided to kill all hostages. This would give the authorities the moral support they need to move in for the kill, as all consideration and apprehension about the hostages disappear. Now, all hell will break lose for them.

    The authorities should not give in to their demands, as this will embolden them to carry out future kidnapping when they need to exchange for their comrades or for money.

  12. #52

    Default Re: Let's pray for the safe release of the Korean hostages

    Quote Originally Posted by hobbit6003 View Post
    Yeah, there are many more possible motives. And yes, they are potentially devastating, which can work the opposite ways as well.

    The longer they hold their hostages, the more likely things will work against them. Like I said, people may turn against them, the moment they realised that they do not have a strong cause to do so, other than wanting to exchange for their comrades.

    The moment they are holding out, they are being put on the defensive, especially when the authorities do not respond to their demands. And the longer the impasse, more weaknesses of theirs will be further exposed and get exploited.

    Furthermore, the religion forbids harming of the female hostages, and if they cross the line, they cannot claim that they do it for their religion. What are they gonna do after the last male hostage is killed?

    Worst if they decided to kill all hostages. This would give the authorities the moral support they need to move in for the kill, as all consideration and apprehension about the hostages disappear. Now, all hell will break lose for them.

    The authorities should not give in to their demands, as this will embolden them to carry out future kidnapping when they need to exchange for their comrades or for money.
    9/11's pretty much turned the world against them but they're still around aren't they? at this point with that group of radicals i think they don't care about the bit about the religion forbiding the harming of women...there's been alot of cases where honor killing of women is performed in afghan...let's just hope that something happens and the koreans come out of this alright...

  13. #53
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    Default Re: Let's pray for the safe release of the Korean hostages

    Before anyone questions me why i have decide to close this thread after a couple of attempts at intervention has been tried by other superusers and a fellow mod, let me state why;

    This is a photography forum. Allowing a place for fellow photographers to banter and chit chat is all fine and dandy and it is a privilege, not a given. For a long time, we have select members coming in here, shooting their mouths off and of course, doing nothing but simply trolling. Liberty or grace have been gievn and more often than not, we try our best to give members the benefit of doubt while ensuring the forum continues to serve its main function; i.e. to be a platform for one and all to learn and share their love for photography.

    Neither the owners of this forum, nor the moderators or even fellow members who join CS for the simple reason of sharing and learning deserve to be irritated by the vocal minority in airing their polemic views, especialy on issues as senstive as religion and politics.

    I agree with another member who posted, "talk is cheap".

    You can say what you want and try to impress whomever you think may be impressed but at the end of the day, are you doing anything about it? No. You are simply sitting behind a computer screen and keyboard. Nothing is coming across expect your false bravado and your feeble attempt at trolling. I see no need for anyone to come in here and choose to pick fights and argue over such matters. This is not the place for such discussions.

    How hard is that to understand?

    I am now closing this thread. If anyone of you have an axe to grind with each other, do so via PM. The entire forum does not need your angst. If you have any objections at all in closing this thread, feel free to contact me via PM and i would be happy to explain to you very clearly as to why i have done so but of course, it would also mean that i will have to de-register your account after that. It is only fair you know why you are no longer welcome in here.

    We have far too much angst in this world as it is. Save it for your own self.

    Consider this a final warning because i do not tolerate stupidity nor do i suffer fools.

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