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Thread: Letter of Guarantee..

  1. #41
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    Default Re: Letter of Guarantee..

    Quote Originally Posted by waileong View Post
    Isn't that where organisations such as NKF, Cancer Society, SATA, etc. come in?
    I think the patient monetary state must be very very poor stage before they can look into these resources
    Sony Alpha 700 hobbyist

  2. #42

    Default Re: Letter of Guarantee..

    Quote Originally Posted by zcf View Post
    I think the patient monetary state must be very very poor stage before they can look into these resources
    Well, once you draw down all your savings, sell your car, sell your flat, etc. you will be able to qualify. Eventually.

  3. #43

    Default Re: Letter of Guarantee..

    that is why there is a saying, in Singapore, if you fall sick, make sure you die..... if you dont die, the medical bills will kill you and your family.

  4. #44
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    Default Re: Letter of Guarantee..

    Quote Originally Posted by waileong View Post
    Well, once you draw down all your savings, sell your car, sell your flat, etc. you will be able to qualify. Eventually.
    It sound depressing, especially regarding in terms of Quality of Life (where other 1st world country are looking into) .

    I guess in Singapore, self dignity is not a privilege, one got to earn it by oneself.
    Sony Alpha 700 hobbyist

  5. #45

    Default Re: Letter of Guarantee..

    Quote Originally Posted by waileong View Post
    Health care is such a sensitive topic, sigh...

    Silence, your example is real but difficult to use simply because it's in two different countries. Plainly speaking everything is cheaper in Malaysia. It's for that reason that there are medical "tourists" from the West, from Indonesia, etc. going to Malaysia, Thailand and other cheaper countries for medical procedures. What's there to say?
    Yes, I agree things are cheaper in Malaysia. But why essential items are cheaper there and not in Singapore?
    What went wrong here?

    I remember an article about Madam Jin Pai Mia. The article compares Madam Jin monthly salary of $1,500 to a domestic helper's salary of $300. And it turns out the domestic helper is better off than Madam Jin.

  6. #46

    Default Re: Letter of Guarantee..

    Quote Originally Posted by night86mare View Post
    Your suggestion of the income-based taxation being workable is not true. As always, my concern with any welfare-orientated system is precisely for the group which you think everyone is in - the middle class.

    The rich lose nothing much, they won't feel the pinch. The poor only stand to gain. The ones which will feel the pinch are the ones who are neither here nor there, not rich enough to be immune to the effects, and not poor enough to gain the benefits of such a system. Agreed?

    I don't really get what you mean in your last paragraph - you state that looking at salary alone is superficial, but you say that the co-payment should be based on income. Last I checked, income was salary?
    If you look at my full sentence,

    As I mentioned looking at Salary alone is superficial. A better way will be co-payment by citizens. You pay for the same rate to get consultation, but if bills for the medicine, will depend on your income level, those who earn more will pay more.


    I said that medical consultation, access to doctors should be readily available to all, regardless of your income. Paying for medicines should be based on your income level, those who are rich get less subsidies, and those who are poor are heaviliy subsidised, and the income level assessement level should be restricted to the patients, not the WHOLE family, as I mentioned, the other family members may have heavy financial burdens.
    Last edited by mlwang; 26th July 2007 at 07:32 PM.

  7. #47

    Default Re: Letter of Guarantee..

    Quote Originally Posted by jsbn View Post
    Actually I have been wondering.

    What makes the cost of healthcare shoot up? Equipment moola? Medicine moola? Lets face it, whoever bought over & patented pencillin has 2 choices, depense it freely at the basic production cost or make a profit out of it.

    It makes me wonder abt the true production cost of medicine. Medicine is supposed to save right?
    The drug companies and medical docs may be responsilble for the increase, there are a whole lot of stories in there, which i personally heard, that is too shocking to believe that it is true. I wont state it here because I dont want to be sued for libel haahah

  8. #48

    Default Re: Letter of Guarantee..

    Quote Originally Posted by centuryegg View Post
    Remember the news article about the ruling party having a "top secret" team of net savy members who reported to an high level party member and whose job was to post pro party comments in Forums and to put down anti party comments? Mmmmm not suprised someone here is one...... if not I find it funny why is this person rabidly fanatically loyal to the party and defends everything and shoots down everyone who has an alternative view.

    I am a loyal Singaporean but I dont believe in being loyal means I have to agree 100 percent with everything the party says. I believe that if we fail to examine ourselves and see if we are really correct and fail to detect problems, we rot from within. History has taught us lessons with great empires like Russia, China's dynasties falling from power all because they felt that dissent mean disloyalty and was to be squashed.
    Well said, remember Mr Brown? He merely state that prices will increase after election, which is a true fact now, and he got shot down for his alternative views, the govt said that he gave unconstructive criticism.

    The State want us to give open feedback, but once your opinion gain too much support from the ground and a threat to them, they will shoot you down, IMOH.

  9. #49

    Default Re: Letter of Guarantee..

    Quote Originally Posted by Nisa View Post
    My prefer question is "can EVERYONE buy health insurance?"
    in sg...obviously not...if no money...one cannot buy...but can die...

  10. #50

    Default Re: Letter of Guarantee..

    Quote Originally Posted by blazer_workz View Post
    Yeah..and lenses breed lenses too..u know..
    but i guess u have more money then my lenses since u understand the former..
    Really ar, if I had money I would have enough lenses to breed.

    Kit lens and Sigma 10-20 (after having to save painstakingly for like, 4 months plus) put together get what sort of lens ar? =D

  11. #51

    Default Re: Letter of Guarantee..

    Quote Originally Posted by LKSC View Post
    People "nitpick" at what you post because you promulgate such strong views based on limited knowledge and experience. Are the facts so clear as you say?
    You read just a few articles and hear some opinions, and from that you are satisfied that "the facts are clear".

    I have lived under the NHS system for years and my family continues to do so, and despite its various failings, it has worked for us.
    Is your knowledge unlimited? Is your experience unlimited?

    Wink.

    You are from Britain? I'm going there soon, will get to see it for myself, shrug.

  12. #52

    Default Re: Letter of Guarantee..

    Quote Originally Posted by zcf View Post
    Your friend must be rich enough to pay for private doctor visit in UK
    I have worked under NHS before, I would think NHS is actually not that bad, so do you think I am more credible than your friend or online story? Or no? We all see things from different angle, so we can't just say our view is correct just based on some angle....

    Also, everyone do look at different "broad" picture, so please just don't assume yours is broader than other.
    I never did assumed mine is broader than everyone's, and I am more than willing to admit my sources, unlike certain people who just present their views and never bother to explain.

    If I didn't explain where I was coming from, there would be nothing to attack in the first place, so kindly keep that in mind.

    Right now, it's a lot better than it was in the past, I'm sure you'd agree to that too. When it first came out, the UK side totally messed around with it, didn't bother to think it through properly. The kinks are still being ironed out, so there's a lot more improvement these days.

    And btw, I didn't just read ONE x article and make my conclusions. If I did that it would have been rather hypocritical, don't you think?

  13. #53

    Default Re: Letter of Guarantee..

    Quote Originally Posted by Silence Sky View Post
    I think people here is not asking for absolutely free medical services, but asking for affordable services.
    Let's not talk about others places, let compare with Malaysia, our closest neighbour.


    Let me give a real life account, i think i quoted it before.

    Mr A Singaporean and MR B Malaysian both down with Colon cancer.
    Mr A is treated in a private hospital and Mr B is also treated in a private hospital but in JB.
    Both use the same drug and similar procedure.
    Mr A pays SG$45,000 for the treatment.
    Mr B pays MR$28,000 for the treatment.

    Why is there such a big difference?
    Fair enough, let's have a comparison to some other country then:

    Mr A Singaporean and Mr B British, both down with Colon cancer.
    Mr A is treated in a private hospital and Mr B is also treated in a private hospital but in UK.
    Both use the same drug and similar procedure.
    Mr A pays XXX SGD for the treatment,
    Mr B pays XXX pounds for the treatment,

    No matter what, Mr B's cost is definitely going to PWN Mr A's cost because he happens to be living in a country with higher living costs.

    Why do we need to compare? What I cannot tolerate is the need to always compare to some place seemingly better or some place seemingly worse - my reply to that is always to offer an counterexample with an equally idiotic comparison, but no one ever seems to point that out.

    What we should be talking about is HOW best to improve the situation HERE.

    It is like one of my favourite authors wrote on you know, the common threat that parents make to force kids to finish their food, about how the people in Africa are dying, etc, so we should not waste. It's not as if finishing your food would make them feel better. Same thing here, you are NOT addressing the problem by comparing to country XXX. So what? Is it a race to be the most benevolent government in the world? Do we win an award? Is it that easy - that's my question as always.

    I detest it when people are unhappy when I disagree with the common viewpoint. Not happy, use logic, don't just after a while just du lan and use emotive/ad hominem arguments. Attacking the person, instead of his argument, is paramount to your admission that your argument sucks big time so you have to resort to personal methods to try to prove your point. Not that it's happened much here, though, I must say, quite happy about that.

  14. #54

    Default Re: Letter of Guarantee..

    Quote Originally Posted by mlwang View Post
    If you look at my full sentence,

    As I mentioned looking at Salary alone is superficial. A better way will be co-payment by citizens. You pay for the same rate to get consultation, but if bills for the medicine, will depend on your income level, those who earn more will pay more.


    I said that medical consultation, access to doctors should be readily available to all, regardless of your income. Paying for medicines should be based on your income level, those who are rich get less subsidies, and those who are poor are heaviliy subsidised, and the income level assessement level should be restricted to the patients, not the WHOLE family, as I mentioned, the other family members may have heavy financial burdens.
    Ah, thanks for the explanation, apologise for reading too fast.

    Fair enough, but it's still linked to salary, hmm?

    I see where you're coming from, really, but the cruel fact is that consultation often is a relatively small chunk compared to the medicines, so it doesn't make any difference to anyone even if it is taken out of the picture.

    In any case, I really do not think that the government owes us a living; largely an advocate of taking personal responsibility for one's self - after all it is YOU, yourself who is in charge of yourself. Quite abhor any welfare-orientated system, because frankly to me it discourages hard work; given the reality that there are people who do not even get a choice, these are the ones that need help, and should be given help.

    After all, there is a difference between the person who was born with a heart defect to a poor family, compared to the person who was born normal, but just screwed up his heart with a McDonald's diet. The problem with a "all for one, one for all" healthcare system is precisely this, instead of preventing the problem, we resort to ignoring it because we know that there'll be a cure out there to catch us when we fall. When was the last time any of you exercised regularly? =)

  15. #55
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    Default Re: Letter of Guarantee..

    Its so sad that most, if not all, of your comments are true. When I was youger, I had a very good friend who was a Dutch citizen. He was paying up to 60% of his income in taxes. I told him that even though I was only paying about 20% of my income in taxes (this was 30 years ago), I would rather pay his rates because the government would look after him should he fall ill, get retrenched, grow old, etc. etc. etc. I thought that he had a better deal..now 30 years on, I am certain he had a better deal! We get nothing from our government unless you are destitute and then you get something like about $65 per month (its been revised recently but I don't know how much!). My pet grief over the years is the story about the samsui women. They had families - husbands and sons and when World War 2 came about, many of their menfolk were killed during the war, with a lot of them giving their lives for Singapore. Thus they had to go out and work to survive as they no longer had their next of kin to look after them. Do you think the govt. has ever helped them out?

    You talk about insurance - well I'm covered until I'm 65 years old and for me that's only 3 years left to go. After that ? I don't know but all I know is that I cannot afford to fall ill! I encourage everyone to take out health insurance but the sad fact of life is that when we are most vulnerable, after 65 years old, health insurance is unobtainable then - just when we need it most. Talk about giving umbrellas on sunny days and taking them away when it rains!

    No I better stop before I get too morose. I'm sorry to hear about your plight and I understand what you are going through. I just wish we had a more caring govt.

  16. #56

    Default Re: Letter of Guarantee..

    Quote Originally Posted by LKSC View Post
    I do not claim unlimited knowledge or experience. You, however, assume "the facts are clear" when it is based on so little, and consider it appropriate to rely on that to make sweeping statements.

    Yes, I am from Britain, and my advice to you is to adjust your sciolistic attitude when you arrive there. It will not be appreciated by your colleagues or teachers at LSE, or by anyone for that matter, and it will hamper your ability to learn. That is all I will say here.
    And could you raise some personal experience examples to counter what I have read on the NHS?

    Or are you just going to sit around and claim that my statements are sweeping? What is the exact situation over there? I have newspaper articles to back me up, what about you? Or do you just have some claim that you come from Britain, and situation is not like that?

    What have you gone through? You are there, you should tell the world what it is like, instead of just saying IT IS NOT SO, without backing anything up, seems rather hypocritical after calling me names, don't you think?

    P.S. It's none of your business, thankyew! From my various forays on the Internet I have met various people who claimed this and claimed that, in the end proven to be hot air, which is why I tend to double guess anyone, shrug. And I've written A LOT MORE than what you quoted, so perhaps you should examine what you are saying, have a good day. Ignored list. You don't strike me as one living in Britain, because from what I've heard the culture there is a lot more open, and people actually take each other seriously and with respect.

    So what of the people who died? Just simply because you have not undergone a horrible experience, does not mean that the critics and the statistics which BACK UP the critics are wrong. YOUR experience. Based on YOUR experience, I believe to see what a broader picture is, instead of taking your word of mouth for it.
    Last edited by night86mare; 26th July 2007 at 10:35 PM.

  17. #57

    Default Re: Letter of Guarantee..

    Hiya forget it..... just carry on the discussion and ignore him... every post just makes him more and more like a rabid party member... defending for the sake of defending to the point of sounding irrational.....

    To party members and leaders..... , the more you and your followers try to put us down, the more we will ask questions.... Till the next election.....

  18. #58

    Default Re: Letter of Guarantee..

    You also? =(

    I thought you were ok.

    Alright, I'll just not post on anything like this again, having been gagged by the anti-party members.

    Back to inane threads and photos 101. =( =( =( note: I actually post more photos than most of the members here. I must be a very free party member indeed, tsk tsk! This is the trend of Singapore, where the people who profess that they have no freedom of speech resort to pressurising means and name-calling to gag people.

    \emosob

    Btw, people do mass orders to Britain these days??
    Last edited by night86mare; 26th July 2007 at 11:11 PM.

  19. #59

    Default Re: Letter of Guarantee..

    Quote Originally Posted by centuryegg View Post
    Hiya forget it..... just carry on the discussion and ignore him... every post just makes him more and more like a rabid party member... defending for the sake of defending to the point of sounding irrational.....

    To party members and leaders..... , the more you and your followers try to put us down, the more we will ask questions.... Till the next election.....
    Hahaha, I love Glen Han.

  20. #60

    Default Re: Letter of Guarantee..

    Quote Originally Posted by Nisa View Post

    My life is cheap
    None of a life is cheap. No matter what happen to you, must keep on breathing as we know it's kind of hard in this "nice nice" reality world

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