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Thread: Everybody needs RAID! please do so today!

  1. #41
    Member boombox's Avatar
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    Default Re: Everybody needs RAID! please do so today!

    With 2 of my hard disks approaching the end of their MTBF, think I'd start moving the important data everything onto duplicate External Hard disks.

    Already one of my HDD kaput... luckily it's just the applications HDD.

  2. #42

    Default Re: Everybody needs RAID! please do so today!

    Quote Originally Posted by Hacker View Post
    Does not RAID 5 also use controllers? Why are 5 disks more beneficial than 3-4 disks in a RAID 5 configuration? For budget constraints, why is RAID 1 better since usuable space is 50%?
    Why are 5 disks more beneficial than 3-4 disks in a RAID 5 configuration? - Performance wise, it is faster to read the same amount of data from 5 Disks than 3-4. Overall disks utilization efficiency is higher too. 80% utilization efficiency for 5 Disks versus 75% for 4 disks and 66% for 3 disks.

    why is RAID 1 better since usuable space is 50%? The performance and redundancy advantage by sacrificing just 16% or 25% efficiency is perceived as more worth the money. RAID1 is preferred for almost all critical application as it's faster (No data parity calculation and striping involved) and offers total redundancy. For most Raid 1 implementation(Not All), you can always take out the hard drive, put it on another system and starts reading/booting from it. You can't do the same for RAID5 Raid Group drives.

  3. #43
    Senior Member Virgo's Avatar
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    Default Re: Everybody needs RAID! please do so today!

    Yep. Can't agree more with DP. It's backup that we need, not necessary RAID.

    I've got my backups over 3 external hard disks, so failure rate is 0.33x0.33x0.33 = 0.035937

    Quote Originally Posted by Deadpoet View Post
    Actually, it's NOT RAID that you or anyone needs, it's BACK UP.

    You really have to be very careful about RAID. Did you buy the HDD from the same batch? If you did, you are at risk. RAID is one way to back up, but bach up is what everyone must do.

    For your friend, I hope he did not try anything heroic with the failed HDD. A lot of files can still be recovered, but please tell your friend, goto a true data recovery specialist. If he is interested, ask him to contact me.

  4. #44
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    Default Re: Everybody needs RAID! please do so today!

    Really feel like going down to my friend's place to collect the 2 Sun 440s and 12 x 40GB SAN back home to use for backup. Too heavy though... noisy too.

  5. #45
    Senior Member blueskye168's Avatar
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    Default Re: Everybody needs RAID! please do so today!

    Quote Originally Posted by Deadpoet View Post
    Actually, it's NOT RAID that you or anyone needs, it's BACK UP.

    You really have to be very careful about RAID. Did you buy the HDD from the same batch? If you did, you are at risk. RAID is one way to back up, but bach up is what everyone must do.

    For your friend, I hope he did not try anything heroic with the failed HDD. A lot of files can still be recovered, but please tell your friend, goto a true data recovery specialist. If he is interested, ask him to contact me.
    Yes, it's Back Up to External HDD Drive/s which will do much safer & better than RAID-1(used b4 but "let-go") thru my experience/encounters, coz real-time got gd & bad tho

    That's why now I use 2 x 500GB Ext HDD(under-1-roof) & plus 1 x 500GB Ext HDD(at another Roof/locationcumblesome at times).
    Last edited by blueskye168; 20th July 2007 at 03:28 PM.
    Anything that can take pictures...happy already lor...(..but...Hasselblad_H5D-50 as my Workhorse)

  6. #46
    Senior Member blueskye168's Avatar
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    Default Re: Everybody needs RAID! please do so today!

    Quote Originally Posted by arpinkor View Post
    RAID arrays do not protect you against everything, eg. accidental deletion or corruption. They only protect against physical hard-disk hardware failures. If you work with Raid arrays long enough, you will know of horror stories where entire racks of disks are wiped out, because the controller went crazy.
    That's why it's always prudent to have regular off-line backup as well, like DVD-R.
    Yup agreed.

    (Sori, OT abit=coz why can't multi-quote now, previously can leh)
    Anything that can take pictures...happy already lor...(..but...Hasselblad_H5D-50 as my Workhorse)

  7. #47
    Senior Member blueskye168's Avatar
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    Default Re: Everybody needs RAID! please do so today!

    Quote Originally Posted by Virgo View Post
    Yep. Can't agree more with DP. It's backup that we need, not necessary RAID.

    I've got my backups over 3 external hard disks, so failure rate is 0.33x0.33x0.33 = 0.035937
    yes
    Anything that can take pictures...happy already lor...(..but...Hasselblad_H5D-50 as my Workhorse)

  8. #48
    Senior Member Hacker's Avatar
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    Default Re: Everybody needs RAID! please do so today!

    Quote Originally Posted by AhSeng View Post
    why is RAID 1 better since usuable space is 50%? The performance and redundancy advantage by sacrificing just 16% or 25% efficiency is perceived as more worth the money
    I think the question was related to those with budget constraints, not why RAID 1 is better than RAID 5. Would not RAID 5 with 3 disks be cheaper per byte than RAID 1 with 2 disks?
    Last edited by Hacker; 20th July 2007 at 06:44 PM.

  9. #49

    Default Re: Everybody needs RAID! please do so today!

    Quote Originally Posted by Hacker View Post
    I think the question was related to those with budget constraints, not why RAID 1 is better than RAID 5. Would not RAID 5 with 3 disks will be cheaper per byte than RAID 1 with 2 disks?
    My bad. I didn't catch the part on budget constraints wise. Billions apologies. It'll be cheaper per byte with the RAID 5.

    Cost Effectiveness wise, Raid 5 will always be the winner. Corporates wouldn't use them if they are otherwise. This is always true if the administration costs, Drive interface port costs, electricity costs and cooling costs that are required are not higher than buying the additional disk.

  10. #50

    Default Re: Everybody needs RAID! please do so today!

    Quote Originally Posted by Hacker View Post
    I think the question was related to those with budget constraints, not why RAID 1 is better than RAID 5. Would not RAID 5 with 3 disks will be cheaper per byte than RAID 1 with 2 disks?
    with budget constraint, just get another HDD, use one of those free utilities, and back up ... simple as that
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  11. #51
    Senior Member Hacker's Avatar
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    Default Re: Everybody needs RAID! please do so today!

    Quote Originally Posted by AhSeng View Post
    My bad. I didn't catch the part on budget constraints wise. Billions apologies. It'll be cheaper per byte with the RAID 5.

    Cost Effectiveness wise, Raid 5 will always be the winner. Corporates wouldn't use them if they are otherwise. This is always true if the administration costs, Drive interface port costs, electricity costs and cooling costs that are required are not higher than buying the additional disk.
    Wha...so many IT experts here. No one recommended virtual SAN?

  12. #52

    Default Re: Everybody needs RAID! please do so today!

    What about something that is incorruptable when stored properly, able to be improved years from now, readable by any computer, doesn't crash at all and lasts around 150+ years?

    Like film maybe?

  13. #53

    Default Re: Everybody needs RAID! please do so today!

    Sad to say.. I just lost over 300 gig of hdd data last week. The hdd gave no warning at all. Now I have installed the SMART on my WinXP OS to detect any likely harddisk failure. I just lost the entire year photos taken since last sep... All the thanks to no harddisk space for backup. ..

  14. #54
    Senior Member zoossh's Avatar
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    Default Re: Everybody needs RAID! please do so today!

    other than backing up on multiple hdd, which i'm already doing, is there hdd integrity check programs that can run on external hdds?

    a fear i have is that when the original data becomes corrupted, and unknowingly it overwrites the existing backup, transferring over the corruption. can it happen that way?

  15. #55

    Default Re: Everybody needs RAID! please do so today!

    Quote Originally Posted by Hacker View Post
    Wha...so many IT experts here. No one recommended virtual SAN?
    Virtual SAN is just a term to describe segregation of the SAN fabric at the SAN switches/directors. This term is first introduced by Cisco with their introduction of their MDS storage switches and routers. Concept wise, it's much like VLAN for networks. VSAN segregates the SAN fabric traffic for SAN fabric security and traffic segregation. It has nothing to do with higher availability of the SAN storage.

    I think u're referring to storage virtualization rather eh?

  16. #56

    Default Re: Everybody needs RAID! please do so today!

    Quote Originally Posted by alternatve View Post
    What about something that is incorruptable when stored properly, able to be improved years from now, readable by any computer, doesn't crash at all and lasts around 150+ years?

    Like film maybe?
    if we are shooting film, will we even have thi discussion?

    is there going back now to film?
    deadpoet
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  17. #57
    Senior Member Hacker's Avatar
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    Default Re: Everybody needs RAID! please do so today!

    Quote Originally Posted by AhSeng View Post
    Virtual SAN is just a term to describe segregation of the SAN fabric at the SAN switches/directors. This term is first introduced by Cisco with their introduction of their MDS storage switches and routers. Concept wise, it's much like VLAN for networks. VSAN segregates the SAN fabric traffic for SAN fabric security and traffic segregation. It has nothing to do with higher availability of the SAN storage.

    I think u're referring to storage virtualization rather eh?
    VSAN design across multiple sites (with realtime replication).

  18. #58
    Senior Member jnet6's Avatar
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    Default Re: Everybody needs RAID! please do so today!

    Like what DP said...
    Get more HDDs and do regular backups, is more important then investing a raid system which require some technicial knowledge plus time for setting up and fine tuning it.

  19. #59
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    Default Re: Everybody needs RAID! please do so today!

    haiz, 2x 500gb seagate freeagent is all good for average user... cost <$500 and you get to have 1 1TB of backup or 2 copies of 500GB backup.

  20. #60

    Default Re: Everybody needs RAID! please do so today!

    Quote Originally Posted by Deadpoet View Post
    if we are shooting film, will we even have thi discussion?

    is there going back now to film?
    For 1TB worth of JPEGs photos... you gotta hav pretty big storage and indexing system. In the tropics, still gotta fight fungus. And it's kinda of hard to have remote backup.
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