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Thread: Wu Xiao Kang - A Dose of LIES

  1. #341

    Default Re: Wu Xiao Kang - A Dose of LIES

    in spite of what has transcended,I would like to say that as artists we have a responsibility to explore.
    I don't mean explore just in terms of technical aspects of our work, but even beyond the point of so called "OB" markers

  2. #342

    Default Re: Wu Xiao Kang - A Dose of LIES

    Quote Originally Posted by shinken View Post
    Where is bicameralism in the photos?
    Where is schizophrenia in the photos?
    Did this artwork draw any awareness to schizophrenia like it claimed to set out to do? Or just an individual?
    Did this artwork accomplish any bigger accomplishment like it claimed (to raise awareness for the less fortunate) than the self-gloryfying one?

    I think as a conceptual art piece, those questions are not really on the agenda
    and its intention was not to raise awareness of schizophrenia (unless you believe the silly justification they gave after the hoax was discovered...)
    art doesn't need to have some sort of worthwhile intention.I don't think there's anything wrong with self-glorifying art (we are photographers, there is a whole tradition of self-portraiture)
    If no one revealed that this story was a hoax, you would have gone to the exhibition and assumed that that was how a schizophrenic takes photos. The questioning only arose because the hoax was discovered.

    if 3 different personalities took photographs and merged it into one character, Wu Xiao Kang, then in some naive way it's a presentation of schizophrenia. I don't believe it's an effective interpretation...but it's one interpretation

    I think that there is a positive side to this whole drama
    many people seem to have sympathised with this person simply from seeing a website with a little story and some photos online
    Perhaps the very fact that we are so easily taken in should remind us that we need to be abit more skeptical before believing everything we see/read?
    I find that we tend to be very easily convinced by sob stories (always a good tactic to misuse when you are a charity), perhaps this will make us think more.

    I uphold the artist's right to create any sort of work
    I just don't think that the drama surrounding it will be good for art's name in singapore
    Last edited by mattlock; 4th July 2007 at 01:43 PM.

  3. #343
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    Default Re: Wu Xiao Kang - A Dose of LIES

    Quote Originally Posted by Max 2.8 View Post
    I protest what?
    What you were suggesting us as a precursor to protest.

    Sigh, let me put this in a manner easy to understand. Slightly OT.

    Protests in even western culture is often a last resort, and it's usually held by students or associated people with any idealistic notions. How often are any protests are succesful? Vietnam war, watergate scandal, czechosolvakia , is all I could think of. Even then, its probably petitions from the influential who got these done rather than those students marching on the streets.

    I have been living in australia for 2 1/2 years. Sure...they protest
    sure they have permits. I myself have been documenting activities as such that goes up to 22,000 strong. Have I even see a single protest change anything? No. Has it made any profound difference in the govt? No. Why? If you got a whole bunch of people yelling and chanting slogans, as photographically interesting as it may sound, it just makes the whole scenario looks uncouth and a debacle.

    Which sounds better? A very precise worded letter made public and to the open press, or going around like a couple of exhibits with everybody rolling their eyeballs and go 'Here we go again...'. It just delays the inevitable.

    Now, an online petition and email has been sent. The photographs got pulled. Now..what would a protest accomplish...?

  4. #344
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    Default Re: Wu Xiao Kang - A Dose of LIES

    one is first a human being before he/she proclaims himself/herself an artist.

    artists have the right to create any work, the public has the right to judge them.

  5. #345
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    Default Re: Wu Xiao Kang - A Dose of LIES

    Quote Originally Posted by mattlock View Post
    "absolute chaos"????
    you sure have a flair for the dramatic.
    Read the model of Communism and see what happened to Soviet Union.

    Sorry to say but even if u have faith in ur own integrity to uphold basic common sense and morals, I don't have faith in the remaining few zillion ppl on planet Earth to uphold the same basic sense like u do.

    I believe u heard of the saying, "One kind of rice feeds a thousand different kinds of people."

  6. #346
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    Default Re: Wu Xiao Kang - A Dose of LIES

    i think there's no point in responding to those who challenge others to hold physical demonstrations. there are more than 1 way to respond to problems. i hate you doesn't mean that i need to kill you.

  7. #347

    Default Re: Wu Xiao Kang - A Dose of LIES

    Quote Originally Posted by Wisp View Post
    What you were suggesting us as a precursor to protest.

    Sigh, let me put this in a manner easy to understand. Slightly OT.

    Protests in even western culture is often a last resort, and it's usually held by students or associated people with any idealistic notions. How often are any protests are succesful? Vietnam war, watergate scandal, czechosolvakia , is all I could think of. Even then, its probably petitions from the influential who got these done rather than those students marching on the streets.

    I have been living in australia for 2 1/2 years. Sure...they protest
    sure they have permits. I myself have been documenting activities as such that goes up to 22,000 strong. Have I even see a single protest change anything? No. Has it made any profound difference in the govt? No. Why? If you got a whole bunch of people yelling and chanting slogans, as photographically interesting as it may sound, it just makes the whole scenario looks uncouth and a debacle.

    Which sounds better? A very precise worded letter made public and to the open press, or going around like a couple of exhibits with everybody rolling their eyeballs and go 'Here we go again...'. It just delays the inevitable.

    Now, an online petition and email has been sent. The photographs got pulled. Now..what would a protest accomplish...?

    a protest would be visually stunning and would bring an emotive point across, would put pressure on people nd would make great publicity
    all protests work on getting media attention.
    What would be more effective, a precisely worded letter that is subject to the editor's whims or fancies, if you're lucky you're on page 21 inside the newspaper in a small column

    or a visually,aurally and emotionally captivating scene, of people chanting with angry faces
    on the 9pm news?

  8. #348
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    Default Re: Wu Xiao Kang - A Dose of LIES

    Quote Originally Posted by mattlock View Post
    a protest would be visually stunning and would bring an emotive point across, would put pressure on people nd would make great publicity
    all protests work on getting media attention.
    What would be more effective, a precisely worded letter that is subject to the editor's whims or fancies, if you're lucky you're on page 21 inside the newspaper in a small column

    or a visually,aurally and emotionally captivating scene, of people chanting with angry faces
    on the 9pm news?
    You've got a point. It probably would work very well, if those ppl on the 9pm news are allowed to show much of it in the first place =/.

  9. #349
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    Default Re: Wu Xiao Kang - A Dose of LIES

    Quote Originally Posted by mattlock View Post
    I think as a conceptual art piece, those questions are not really on the agenda
    and its intention was not to raise awareness of schizophrenia (unless you believe the silly justification they gave after the hoax was discovered...)
    art doesn't need to have some sort of worthwhile intention.I don't think there's anything wrong with self-glorifying art (we are photographers, there is a whole tradition of self-portraiture)
    If no one revealed that this story was a hoax, you would have gone to the exhibition and assumed that that was how a schizophrenic takes photos. The questioning only arose because the hoax was discovered.

    if 3 different personalities took photographs and merged it into one character, Wu Xiao Kang, then in some naive way it's a presentation of schizophrenia. I don't believe it's an effective interpretation...but it's one interpretation

    I think that there is a positive side to this whole drama
    many people seem to have sympathised with this person simply from seeing a website with a little story and some photos online
    Perhaps the very fact that we are so easily taken in should remind us that we need to be abit more skeptical before believing everything we see/read?
    I find that we tend to be very easily convinced by sob stories (always a good tactic to misuse when you are a charity), perhaps this will make us think more.

    I uphold the artist's right to create any sort of work
    I just don't think that the drama surrounding it will be good for art's name in singapore
    i'll be more worried for art in singapore if there's no response to the issue

  10. #350

    Default Re: Wu Xiao Kang - A Dose of LIES

    Quote Originally Posted by jsbn View Post
    Read the model of Communism and see what happened to Soviet Union.

    Sorry to say but even if u have faith in ur own integrity to uphold basic common sense and morals, I don't have faith in the remaining few zillion ppl on planet Earth to uphold the same basic sense like u do.

    I believe u heard of the saying, "One kind of rice feeds a thousand different kinds of people."
    Communism is ALL ABOUT social norms
    it's about conforming to social norms! you want to talk about overstepping social norms then you should be looking at democracy
    Artists of all sorts from the literary to the visual arts have a rich history of challenging social norms
    Alot of it came from Europe
    I don't see France exactly crumbling. If anything they have a rich cultural history that they are very proud of.

    Soviet union didn't collapse due to crossing OB markers! I don't know how you connected those two things together.

  11. #351

    Default Re: Wu Xiao Kang - A Dose of LIES

    Quote Originally Posted by Wisp View Post
    You've got a point. It probably would work very well, if those ppl on the 9pm news are allowed to show much of it in the first place =/.

    well trust me some foreign media would love to pick up on it
    wouldn't it be funny if the only protest in singapore was over a bunch of photographs that aren't actually very interesting?

  12. #352

    Default Re: Wu Xiao Kang - A Dose of LIES

    Hi Matt,

    I agree (which you probably can tell), that if it were a conceptual art piece, then the questions didn't matter.

    And you're quick to realise that I didn't believe their justification after they were discovered.

    Which is why being obliged to give them the benefit of doubt, I said what I said.

    If, indeed, it were conceptual, they couldn't claim the artist's integrity.

    I also agree how artist should constantly push the boundaries.

    Photographing nude pregnant women used to be a huge taboo in our society, for those of us who can remember that far back.

    Now I get paid for doing it. Thanks to the very first artists who pushed that boundary.

    There are many artists who pushed that boundary, which I still feel pretty uncomfortable with. Like that guy who grew corpse on his garden (yes, laid dead bodies in the garden to grow mold). Like the exhibition on dissected corpses. Like many experimental pieces which though forgotten, but may lead to greater discoveries. These artists don't bat an eyelid on societal pressure and their OB markers. Many of them don't even bother to explain, but those who did showed resolution and purposefulness.

    I know my examples can be offensive to some. If they are, please just refer to the example on pregnant nudes on what I mean by artists pushing the boundaries.

    Even if I were uncomfortable with them, I could see the value in it. I could see the artist integrity behind it. The resolute for pushing boundaries. The firm and sure intent and execution. And I respect these artists for their insights, visions and courage.

    But I personally don't feel that this piece of work in discussion, at least to me, fall in that category.

    Thanks for your interpretation of the possible interpretation of the artists - that having 3 photographers is one form of interpretation of schizophrenia. It's enlightening, and reminded me of how close minded I was to overlook that possibility. But again, this spark of creativity, I would rather, credit it to you, than to give the authors the benefit of doubt. I can debate on what you said for the sake of an intellectual exchange, but that's not the issue here. And I do wish that I had seen it as well.

    Quote Originally Posted by mattlock View Post
    I think as a conceptual art piece, those questions are not really on the agenda
    and its intention was not to raise awareness of schizophrenia (unless you believe the silly justification they gave after the hoax was discovered...)
    art doesn't need to have some sort of worthwhile intention.I don't think there's anything wrong with self-glorifying art (we are photographers, there is a whole tradition of self-portraiture)
    If no one revealed that this story was a hoax, you would have gone to the exhibition and assumed that that was how a schizophrenic takes photos. The questioning only arose because the hoax was discovered.
    Last edited by shinken; 4th July 2007 at 02:00 PM.

  13. #353
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    Default Re: Wu Xiao Kang - A Dose of LIES

    Quote Originally Posted by Sam0606 View Post
    Hmms. Since there seems to be at least one aspect of closure on this matter, I guess part of the blood calling will kinda die down.

    Spent the last hour or so reading through all the posts here, and I think Shinken balances the whole issue best in his post, and expresses my sentiments exactly.

    If the whole point of this project/art piece/whatever you want to call it was to create reactions, generate controversy, and raise their own profile, they did a good job.

    But the point about schizophrenia was totally missed. The photography didn't do a good job with respect to the subject matter. They didn't seem like they did their homework, or if they did, they showed no prove of it.

    And the way they changed their stories to cover their backside is downright shameful.

    Regardless, I wonder where this episode will lead to next? Another entertaining show to watch?
    Yes, my bone of contention is about how these bunch of so called artists, have totally misrepresented schizophrenia, the exact community that they were purportedly trying to highlight and raise awareness.

    By doing what they did, they have actually achieved the opposite: it makes people misunderstand them even more!

    In my opinion, I'd think that if they've done their research properly and pull off this hoax with accurate pictorial depiction of a schizophrenic, it would have actually been an intelligent piece of work.

    Thus, I thought that something must be done about this and that prompted me to write to the reporter.

    I must also thank Kay Chin, who actually helped facilitate the communication. I sincerely think that it was really a gross oversight by him, and it is indeed brave and noble of him to come forward and face the brunt here in CS.

    I hope that this episode will just die down, whe the wrong has been righted.

  14. #354

    Default Re: Wu Xiao Kang - A Dose of LIES

    Quote Originally Posted by shinken View Post
    Even if I were uncomfortable with them, I could see the value in it. I could see the artist integrity behind it. The resolute for pushing boundaries. The firm and sure intent and execution. And I respect these artists for their insights, visions and courage.

    But I personally don't feel that this piece of work in discussion, at least to me, fall in that category.

    Thanks for your interpretation of the possible interpretation of the artists - that having 3 photographers is one form of interpretation of schizophrenia. It's enlightening, and reminded me of how close minded I was to overlook that possibility. But again, this spark of creativity, I would rather, credit it to you, than to give the authors the benefit of doubt. I can debate on what you said for the sake of an intellectual exchange, but that's not the issue here. And I do wish that I had seen it as well.
    yeah I don't believe in it either
    but I think that we should give the artists an opportunity to discuss their process and intentions HONESTLY (not to the media for soundbites) before we lynch them.
    the strong reaction provoked in Clubsnap points to the fact that some sacred cow was slaughtered here...some big boundary was crossed.

    I think when people discuss this in terms of art they come in with the mentality that art should be confined to certain playing fields...but let's analyze the whole process and consider the effectiveness of each point

    -The setting up of a website with a believable character
    Done pretty well apart from eagle eyed folks who noticed the digital manipulation

    -The petitioning for the roll of film
    Abit dramatic, but managed to garner some response

    -Exhibiting the work under the character's name
    Nearly got there!Nearly!

    The manipulation of the web media to stir emotions and reactions in people was done pretty well methinks
    Their artwork is not finished yet, the incorporation of the news media into this piece is still ongoing.

  15. #355

    Default Re: Wu Xiao Kang - A Dose of LIES

    Yep. I witheld my response because I was just as impressed by the points you made. But when I read the published justification...

    If the published justification were some form bowing to public pressure, and nowhere authentic because of the need to conform to expectations (or even more exciting still, part of the performance), then probably the benefit of doubt you are giving (and which I gave at first) is deserved. Then I would be very very heartened at the creativity of the emerging generation in the art scene.

    Nevertheless, I still find it hard to wipe out the disappointment (and bad taste) left behind by the said justification. Although after your sharing, my mind is reopened. I really hope that if that were to happen, the benefit of doubt you gave is deserved. Instead of a group of failed authors who's trying to find the next best excuse for their flounder.

    Quote Originally Posted by mattlock View Post
    I think when people discuss this in terms of art they come in with the mentality that art should be confined to certain playing fields...but let's analyze the whole process and consider the effectiveness of each point

    -The setting up of a website with a believable character
    Done pretty well apart from eagle eyed folks who noticed the digital manipulation

    -The petitioning for the roll of film
    Abit dramatic, but managed to garner some response

    -Exhibiting the work under the character's name
    Nearly got there!Nearly!

    The manipulation of the web media to stir emotions and reactions in people was done pretty well methinks
    Their artwork is not finished yet, the incorporation of the news media into this piece is still ongoing.
    Last edited by shinken; 4th July 2007 at 02:16 PM.

  16. #356
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    Default Re: Wu Xiao Kang - A Dose of LIES

    Quote Originally Posted by mattlock View Post
    yeah I don't believe in it either
    but I think that we should give the artists an opportunity to discuss their process and intentions HONESTLY (not to the media for soundbites) before we lynch them.
    the strong reaction provoked in Clubsnap points to the fact that some sacred cow was slaughtered here...some big boundary was crossed.

    I think when people discuss this in terms of art they come in with the mentality that art should be confined to certain playing fields...but let's analyze the whole process and consider the effectiveness of each point

    -The setting up of a website with a believable character
    Done pretty well apart from eagle eyed folks who noticed the digital manipulation

    -The petitioning for the roll of film
    Abit dramatic, but managed to garner some response

    -Exhibiting the work under the character's name
    Nearly got there!Nearly!

    The manipulation of the web media to stir emotions and reactions in people was done pretty well methinks
    Their artwork is not finished yet, the incorporation of the news media into this piece is still ongoing.
    you think highly of these artists.

    you left out the part where they were supposed to intentionally expose the hoax for the sake of their art.

    and i believe the cancellation of the exhibition was part of the artistic agenda.

  17. #357
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    Default Re: Wu Xiao Kang - A Dose of LIES

    so shinken & mattlock...

    both of you are saying that, this is a superb piece of work by the artist and its not actually about schizophrenia and only about the 3 artist trying to display their art?
    Logging Off. "You have 2,631 messages stored, of a total 400 allowed." don't PM me.

  18. #358

    Default Re: Wu Xiao Kang - A Dose of LIES

    Quote Originally Posted by Del_CtrlnoAlt View Post
    so shinken & mattlock...

    both of you are saying that, this is a superb piece of work by the artist and its not actually about schizophrenia and only about the 3 artist trying to display their art?
    No. At this point in time, I think the work is created by 3 people, who had hoped to generate interest in their shabby work by using an interesting theme, and proceeded on building on that theme to dupe people into being interested in their shabby photography, and were forced to admit the hoax.

  19. #359
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    Default Re: Wu Xiao Kang - A Dose of LIES

    Quote Originally Posted by shinken View Post
    No. At this point in time, I think the work is created by 3 people, who had hoped to generate interest in their shabby work by using an interesting theme, and proceeded on building on that theme to dupe people into being interested in their shabby photography, and were forced to admit the hoax.
    but then again, you are illustrating that the work generates something called art, in a positive notion... and should be promoted... or am i getting the wrong idea.
    Logging Off. "You have 2,631 messages stored, of a total 400 allowed." don't PM me.

  20. #360

    Default Re: Wu Xiao Kang - A Dose of LIES

    Quote Originally Posted by Sam0606 View Post
    Hmms. Since there seems to be at least one aspect of closure on this matter, I guess part of the blood calling will kinda die down.

    Spent the last hour or so reading through all the posts here, and I think Shinken balances the whole issue best in his post, and expresses my sentiments exactly.

    If the whole point of this project/art piece/whatever you want to call it was to create reactions, generate controversy, and raise their own profile, they did a good job.

    But the point about schizophrenia was totally missed. The photography didn't do a good job with respect to the subject matter. They didn't seem like they did their homework, or if they did, they showed no prove of it.

    And the way they changed their stories to cover their backside is downright shameful.

    Regardless, I wonder where this episode will lead to next? Another entertaining show to watch?
    perhaps

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