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Thread: Asian cars not less safe than European makes

  1. #1
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    Default Asian cars not less safe than European makes

    My own conclusions from a few rounds of shopping for family cars and basing decisions on real hard data from reputable testing agencies, as opposed to succumbing to uninformed biases.

    http://www.euroncap.com/Content-Web-...n-qashqai.aspx

    http://www.euroncap.com/small_family_car.aspx

    http://www.euroncap.com/tests/toyota..._2007/285.aspx

    http://www.euroncap.com/large_family_car.aspx

    http://www.euroncap.com/small_mpv.aspx

    Who cares if the cars fold up? Passenger protection and pedestrian safety is paramount and if the car folds to take the impact, so much the better.
    Last edited by dkw; 20th June 2007 at 11:14 AM.

  2. #2

    Default Re: Asian cars not less safe than European makes

    Err.. It's general understanding that Japan designs some of the safest cars on the market. European cars tend to save lives through inertia, where the huge mass of European cars tend to work in favour of the driver by making the situation somewhat like a truck hitting a bunny. But note that the impact absorbing designs of Japanese cars tend not to work that well on the autobahn anyway, where high speeds often reduce the crumple zones to mere inches thick masses of compressed metal and then some.

  3. #3

    Default Re: Asian cars not less safe than European makes

    that is why most european cars are
    1) more expensive
    2) heavier
    3) never good on fuel consumption

  4. #4
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    Default Re: Asian cars not less safe than European makes

    Such discussion are appreciated, since knowledge is shared objectively. I would like to, however, remind one and all that I will not tolerate any trolling, flame baiting or any form of self indulgent behavior.

    Thank you.

  5. #5

    Default Re: Asian cars not less safe than European makes

    Take a look at the Ford Focus. It has a great safety record after tests were made in Europe. I think it achieved some special award for safety. But then the imported version has 2 air bags instead of 5 in europe. How does that affect the safety award that was won?

    I think the same is happening to most cars imported into Singapore. Somehow the features are reduced but they use all the 'awards' that were won overseas for marketing. It is confusing to the customer and very wrong in my opinion.

  6. #6
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    Default Re: Asian cars not less safe than European makes

    Quote Originally Posted by seankyh View Post
    Take a look at the Ford Focus. It has a great safety record after tests were made in Europe. I think it achieved some special award for safety. But then the imported version has 2 air bags instead of 5 in europe. How does that affect the safety award that was won?

    I think the same is happening to most cars imported into Singapore. Somehow the features are reduced but they use all the 'awards' that were won overseas for marketing. It is confusing to the customer and very wrong in my opinion.
    Now that you mentioned it, yes, that don't seem right.
    I get paid more shooting part time ...... damn, I should find more time to shoot part time

  7. #7

    Default Re: Asian cars not less safe than European makes

    Many cars are imported without the full safety specs which was tested by ENCAP. From my recent car shopping, most European safety specs are better than Japs in the local market, especially those in the compact to medium range. That's the reason I got my 1.4L european car that comes with 6 air bags, there is no Jap 1.4L cars that comes with similar specs.

    BC

  8. #8

    Default Re: Asian cars not less safe than European makes

    Quote Originally Posted by Scaglietti View Post
    Many cars are imported without the full safety specs which was tested by ENCAP. From my recent car shopping, most European safety specs are better than Japs in the local market, especially those in the compact to medium range. That's the reason I got my 1.4L european car that comes with 6 air bags, there is no Jap 1.4L cars that comes with similar specs.

    BC
    I think the body design plays a much bigger role in passenger safety than airbags. No point getting cushioned by an airbag just before the roll-cage compresses to half it's size and crushes you.

  9. #9

    Default Re: Asian cars not less safe than European makes

    Quote Originally Posted by jmmtn4aj View Post
    I think the body design plays a much bigger role in passenger safety than airbags. No point getting cushioned by an airbag just before the roll-cage compresses to half it's size and crushes you.
    You are wrong! I know of someone who was saved by side airbags when his car was T-bone by another car beating the red light. His car was a total loss but he managed to walk out of the wreckage.

    Roll-cage??? ... How often in normal driving do you get your car overturned? ... well unless you are driving like a crazy... in that case, please wear a crash helmet too... maybe a 5-point seat harness will save you.

    BTW, if you read the requirements by ENCAP, the passenger cell integrity is one of the primary requirements. It is usually the airbags that is removed to keep the OMV down for cost saving. If your car is rated ENCAP 5 stars, just take note of what the specs that was tested and what is the specs you are buying.

    BC
    Last edited by Scaglietti; 20th June 2007 at 10:32 PM.

  10. #10
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    Default Re: Asian cars not less safe than European makes

    to the best of my knowledge, besides the airbags, i tot the next best protection is the metal alloy used to make the car?

    when u look at pictures of accidents of japanese cars like toyota, honda etc, the damaged car is always squeezed into pancake shape. eg. when the car buang the back of the car in front, the front of the car is squashed till machiam there is no front at all...

    however when u look at pics of accidents of europe cars, the body shape is still pretty much preserved... that is why europe car is much safer..
    09 Oct 09 officially marks the date I become a canon convert.

  11. #11

    Default Re: Asian cars not less safe than European makes

    It is not true that all Japanese cars are weak. Front and rear are meant to be crushed, but the important thing is the integrity of the passenger cell.

    Look at this ENCAP report for the 2007 Corolla.
    http://www.euroncap.com/tests/toyota..._2007/285.aspx


    The Corolla scored a 5-Star ENCAP. The passenger cell is solid and intact. But look at the list of safety equipment.

    Front seatbelt pretensioners
    Front seatbelt load limiters
    Driver frontal airbag
    Front passenger frontal airbag
    Side body airbags
    Side head airbags
    Driver knee airbag
    ISOfix rear

    I do not think that the local Corolla or Altis have side body airbags and side head airbags.

    BC
    Last edited by Scaglietti; 20th June 2007 at 10:56 PM.

  12. #12
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    Default Re: Asian cars not less safe than European makes

    because if the front is easily squashable, then wont it become very very easy to damage the motor, the engines etc. and causing very big fire as a result?

    if the front is not easily squashed, then the engine, motor etc. will be able to maintain their integrity, and explosions etc. wont occur rite?
    09 Oct 09 officially marks the date I become a canon convert.

  13. #13

    Default Re: Asian cars not less safe than European makes

    Quote Originally Posted by Scaglietti View Post
    Roll-cage??? ... How often in normal driving do you get your car overturned? ... well unless you are driving like a crazy... in that case, please wear a crash helmet too... maybe a 5-point seat harness will save you.
    All cars come with roll-cages as a basic design criteria. How good the roll cages are is what's important. I'm glad you did your research before arguing. I'm glad you also think that airbags deploy often 'in normal driving'


    BTW, if you read the requirements by ENCAP, the passenger cell integrity is one of the primary requirements. It is usually the airbags that is removed to keep the OMV down for cost saving. If your car is rated ENCAP 5 stars, just take note of what the specs that was tested and what is the specs you are buying.

    BC
    Passenger cell refers to the roll-cage, the framework in which the passenger compartment is located. Hence the term cell. Integrity is the ability of the framework to resist deformation. Airbags play no part in this. Glad you did your research, again.

  14. #14

    Default Re: Asian cars not less safe than European makes

    Quote Originally Posted by kcuf2 View Post
    because if the front is easily squashable, then wont it become very very easy to damage the motor, the engines etc. and causing very big fire as a result?

    if the front is not easily squashed, then the engine, motor etc. will be able to maintain their integrity, and explosions etc. wont occur rite?
    Fires happen only when the fuel lines are damaged. A damage engine doesn't necessarily mean a fire. Fuel lines aren't located in crumple zones, for obvious reasons, and most of the engine isn't located in any crumple zone too. Allowing the engine to shift with the crumple zone is dangerous because it might shift too far back, into the passenger compartment. Many have been killed this way.

  15. #15
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    Default Re: Asian cars not less safe than European makes

    Crumple zones are intended to dissipate the force of an impact, so that the occupants of the vehicle do not have to deal with the full deceleration of coming to a sudden stop. The more immediate danger is dying from impact than a post-crash fire.

    I however agree that local Japanese brand cars tend to be fairly stripped down in terms of safety features, and can come with only one airbag, whereas European cars stand a better chance of coming in with a full set of airbags.

  16. #16

    Default Re: Asian cars not less safe than European makes

    Quote Originally Posted by kcuf2 View Post
    because if the front is easily squashable, then wont it become very very easy to damage the motor, the engines etc. and causing very big fire as a result?

    if the front is not easily squashed, then the engine, motor etc. will be able to maintain their integrity, and explosions etc. wont occur rite?
    In fact, fire risk is lower than the impact killing the driver/passenger. Most of the fatal accidents do not involve engine fires. Anyway, most of the modern cars Japs or Euro or Kor (not sure about Chinese ones though) comes with fuel cut off system. The fuel tanks are also made of rupture resistant materials.

    The engines is too tough to be crushed. It is usually made to slip below the floor of the passenger compartment on impact.

    BC
    Last edited by Scaglietti; 20th June 2007 at 11:19 PM.

  17. #17

    Default Re: Asian cars not less safe than European makes

    jus my two cents.. the most important safety feature a car has is that person sitting behind the wheel.. if everyone drives slower and has more patience, also dun drink and drive, that would increase the safety level of every road user as compared to any safety feature introduced.

    Of course, I'm not saying that these safety features are not important or necessary

  18. #18
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    Default Re: Asian cars not less safe than European makes

    Quote Originally Posted by Scaglietti View Post
    Look at this ENCAP report for the 2007 Corolla.
    http://www.euroncap.com/tests/toyota..._2007/285.aspx


    The Corolla scored a 5-Star ENCAP. The passenger cell is solid and intact. But look at the list of safety equipment.

    Front seatbelt pretensioners
    Front seatbelt load limiters
    Driver frontal airbag
    Front passenger frontal airbag
    Side body airbags
    Side head airbags
    Driver knee airbag
    ISOfix rear

    I do not think that the local Corolla or Altis have side body airbags and side head airbags.

    BC
    Maybe this one is 1800cc version. Borneo Motor also sells i think, but few ppl buy... I've only noticed 1, where the badge behind says '1.8'... it has a different headlamp unit than the 1.6i.

  19. #19
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    Default Re: Asian cars not less safe than European makes

    Quote Originally Posted by Scaglietti View Post
    You are wrong! I know of someone who was saved by side airbags when his car was T-bone by another car beating the red light. His car was a total loss but he managed to walk out of the wreckage.

    Roll-cage??? ... How often in normal driving do you get your car overturned? ... well unless you are driving like a crazy... in that case, please wear a crash helmet too... maybe a 5-point seat harness will save you.

    BTW, if you read the requirements by ENCAP, the passenger cell integrity is one of the primary requirements. It is usually the airbags that is removed to keep the OMV down for cost saving. If your car is rated ENCAP 5 stars, just take note of what the specs that was tested and what is the specs you are buying.

    BC
    Quite funny that you mentioned overturning - I have seen 2 incidences of a car overturning in SG. Both cars were travelling relatively slowly as well - around 60-70 kmh? One was in the wet along Bt Timah road and one was in the dry.

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