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Thread: Weapon Talk

  1. #61
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    Default Re: Weapon Talk

    Quote Originally Posted by Clown View Post
    well the G11 was one such weapon.. it can fire a 3 round bursts accurately but the project ended due to some political reason.
    The G11 fires a caseless 4.7mm round, with 50 round mag loaded over the barrel..
    I've seen a clip on the 'Net, showing the G11 on fire range..
    Amazing ROF at full auto, i think it's 2000+rpm when 3-round burst selected..
    The theory here is that at extremely high ROF, the last round of the burst will leave the barrel along the axis of aim BEFORE the firer can flinch in anticipation of recoil.. (IIRC Royal Ordnance bought over Heckler&Koch so the project was canned, rt?)

    I've seen a picture of the an MG that's supposed to be big-bro of the G11..
    It packs 300(!!) caseless rounds in the butt, reload ala break-open shotgun style..

    I read from Jane's that the 5.7mm ball-round was not originally designed as a armour piercing, but is incidental due to the shape of the projectile.. The high-velocity round looks like a sabotted AP round..

    Anyone knows about the THV (tres-haute-something-something i think) round? I rem reading somewhere that it's wound profile is 'large-entry-small-exit' due to it's design: THV imparts most of it's KE upon impact, damaging the tissue around the wound site, leaving little energy on exit.. Seems that it's banned by internationl convention etc..

    Somewhere out there is also a battery-control Personal Defence Weapon (aka auto-pistol) the Bushman; the battery in the grip is to allow the user to vary ROF in the field..

  2. #62
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    Default Re: Weapon Talk

    Quote Originally Posted by Terence View Post
    You're at the mercy of the weather. If you've been to a range during NS, the conditions and type are quite similar... except you don't have to be part of the butt party.
    unker.. now no more butt party liao.... all automated.
    “How fortunate for leaders that men do not think.” - Adolf Hitler

  3. #63
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    Default Re: Weapon Talk

    Quote Originally Posted by yanyewkay View Post
    unker.. now no more butt party liao.... all automated.
    Shows you how long ago when I was NSF eh? I quite enjoyed being the butt party. Hard work but great fun. Having bullets wizz by inches above your head is pretty exciting.

    And who you calling uncle, uncle?
    Last edited by Terence; 21st June 2007 at 02:21 PM.

  4. #64
    Senior Member King Tiger's Avatar
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    Default Re: Weapon Talk

    Quote Originally Posted by Terence View Post
    Shows you how long ago when I was NSF eh? I quite enjoyed being the butt party. Hard work but great fun. Having bullets wizz by inches above your head is pretty exciting.
    Hahaha, yes yes, I recall that too.

  5. #65
    Senior Member zac08's Avatar
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    Default Re: Weapon Talk

    Quote Originally Posted by Ally View Post
    The G11 fires a caseless 4.7mm round, with 50 round mag loaded over the barrel..
    I've seen a clip on the 'Net, showing the G11 on fire range..
    Amazing ROF at full auto, i think it's 2000+rpm when 3-round burst selected..
    The theory here is that at extremely high ROF, the last round of the burst will leave the barrel along the axis of aim BEFORE the firer can flinch in anticipation of recoil.. (IIRC Royal Ordnance bought over Heckler&Koch so the project was canned, rt?)

    I've seen a picture of the an MG that's supposed to be big-bro of the G11..
    It packs 300(!!) caseless rounds in the butt, reload ala break-open shotgun style..

    I read from Jane's that the 5.7mm ball-round was not originally designed as a armour piercing, but is incidental due to the shape of the projectile.. The high-velocity round looks like a sabotted AP round..

    Anyone knows about the THV (tres-haute-something-something i think) round? I rem reading somewhere that it's wound profile is 'large-entry-small-exit' due to it's design: THV imparts most of it's KE upon impact, damaging the tissue around the wound site, leaving little energy on exit.. Seems that it's banned by internationl convention etc..

    Somewhere out there is also a battery-control Personal Defence Weapon (aka auto-pistol) the Bushman; the battery in the grip is to allow the user to vary ROF in the field..
    The G11 is only fast when you select 3 rd bursts. But when it comes to sustained fire, the rate drops down to 600rpm, which is even less than the HK33 (750rpm) or the M16 (700rpm)

    As for the 5.7, I believe it's a lot of hype. The round is equivalent to the 5.56 with a whole lot less powder, so how much velocity can it get?

    THV

    'Tres Haute Vites' = very high speed. This is a old development and dropped due to numerous problems, like the high barrel wear, high pressure and also changes of legislation to prevent export to certain countries. Penetration is low at approx. 6 inches and while this may cause a high damage flesh wound, this will not incapicitate by hitting the vital organs unless you hit the target at the neck or head.
    Michael Lim
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  6. #66
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    Default Re: Weapon Talk

    They can't shoot because there is only blanks in the magazines

    Quote Originally Posted by teruranse View Post
    just a curious question gens... are our airports or any others areas like orchard road and mrt stations securities personnels trained to shoot in that environments where the chances of collateral damages are high? i mean are they fully train like the sas where split decision is critical to indentify good and bad guys? sas are train to shoot on instinct... but are ours?

    cheerz

  7. #67
    Senior Member zac08's Avatar
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    Default Re: Weapon Talk

    Quote Originally Posted by kiwitan View Post
    They can't shoot because there is only blanks in the magazines
    You wanna try them?? Do let us know in advance though... we'll shoot the whole incident down for documentation. Mebbe we can get a nice 8 x 6 for you too.
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  8. #68
    Senior Member zac08's Avatar
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    Default Re: Weapon Talk

    Any other weapons you guys find interesting or wish to discuss about?
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    Default Re: Weapon Talk


  10. #70
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    Default Re: Weapon Talk

    Quote Originally Posted by Terence View Post
    Brute force, no finesse.

    This has a touch of style to it.

  11. #71
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    Default Re: Weapon Talk

    This one ought to hurt....


  12. #72
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    Default Re: Weapon Talk

    One way to get around things...


  13. #73

    Default Re: Weapon Talk

    Quote Originally Posted by afbug View Post
    That is not really the point as u see, the current assult rifles can fire 700 plus round a min and no soldier will really do that. The key is ability. If required, it can discharge rapid fire rounds and i think its before the gun recoils. That means, it can put a few bullets in a spot accurately.

    I think this clearly has an edge over normal guns. I think it will have less recoil, and most impt, no more jams. Fire an M16 before? If u did and it jams, its fustrating and deadly in battle situations.
    Ah, I thought you were talking about the typical vehicle mounted or towed Metal Storm, not the VLe pistol type.

    Accurate bursts are only a real issue when it comes to handgun, which is why the ability of an electronic triggering device to discharge multiple rounds before recoil affects accuracy was a big emphasis when they introduced the VLe. Rifles, at least those chambered for the 5.56 NATO, aren't as affected by the recoil due to two reasons. One, they are heavier. More mass means more force needed to move it. Two, they're usually designed with the axis of movement of the bolt running in a straight line, directly into the shoulder, as with the AR-15 family design.

    The most promoted angle on Metal Storm is still it's ability to fire millions of rounds within a very small time frame, and few infantry will ever be able to fire that many because of recoil and logistics. In fact, M16A2s don't have a fully automatic setting because users tended to leave it on that setting, spray, and empty the magazine in the middle of a firefight too quickly. The problem was basic psychology really. Whilst being shot at, people tend to be thinking about many things other than how many rounds are left in the magazine, or how long he's been holding on to the trigger. By allowing a three round burst at most, the new M16 design forced the user to consciously release the trigger, in other to continue firing. This basically achieved two things, it allowed him to conserve and keep track of ammunition more easily, and it gave him time to reacquire the target in between trigger squeezes. Bottom line is rate of fire, Metal Storm's greatest advantage, really doesn't matter at all in most infantry combat situations.

    Of course, that the guns won't jam is a major advantage. But don't forget that electronics tend to be more fragile than cast aluminum bolts and springs, and remember, they run off batteries. Currently the loads that troops carry already consist of a fair bit of batteries. Batteries for their AN/PEQ-2, night vision scopes and binoculars, laptops, radio, GPS, flash lights, the list goes on. All those devices aren't critical to your survival, but imagine if you run out of batteries in a hostile environment and because of that, your weapon doesn't work anymore.

    So no, until they create power packs that last weeks or months of constant usage in portable Metal Storm devices, and the packs are small enough to fit ON the gun and to put in pockets (so spares aren't troublesome to bring around), I don't see it taking off for infantry either.
    Last edited by jmmtn4aj; 22nd June 2007 at 05:46 PM.

  14. #74
    Senior Member zac08's Avatar
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    Default Re: Weapon Talk

    Quote Originally Posted by Terence View Post
    One way to get around things...

    And how heavy is this gonna be? Damn if I'm gonna be using this to fight in a war.
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  15. #75

    Default Re: Weapon Talk

    Quote Originally Posted by zac08 View Post
    And how heavy is this gonna be? Damn if I'm gonna be using this to fight in a war.
    It weighs about the same as the average carbine with the pistol attachment. If it's to be adopted by any regular army, then it'll probably be at squad level, not individual. After all only one man should be shooting around the corner, covering the others.

  16. #76

    Smile Re: Weapon Talk

    yes, this is weapon talk. technical in nature.

  17. #77

    Default Re: Weapon Talk

    Stop everything and hide nowhere wif M107 .5 caliber AP rounds
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  18. #78
    Senior Member +evenstar's Avatar
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    Default Re: Weapon Talk

    Quote Originally Posted by kiwitan View Post
    They can't shoot because there is only blanks in the magazines
    i thought all SAF guards have empty mag in their weapons, and a mag with live rounds in their mag pouch, while gurkhas have live rounds loaded in their weapons? not sure about the police tho
    eat. drink. shoot

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    Default Re: Weapon Talk

    Quote Originally Posted by Terence View Post
    One way to get around things...

    Cornershot!

  20. #80
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    Default Re: Weapon Talk

    Quote Originally Posted by +evenstar View Post
    i thought all SAF guards have empty mag in their weapons, and a mag with live rounds in their mag pouch, while gurkhas have live rounds loaded in their weapons? not sure about the police tho
    Actually not very true.

    What applies to ur BMT might not apply for Operational situation & deployment. Army procedures are not all across the board standard.

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