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Thread: What culture is it here??!!

  1. #201

    Default Re: What culture is it here??!!

    Quote Originally Posted by yqt View Post
    My post is directed to " those who are uninformed ".

    I next state that " This is ClubSnap "

    You post what you posted in ClubSnap as your opinion.
    I posted what I did as what is the Rules,T&Cs and the norm in CS.
    My purpose is to draw the attention of the readers here, that your post is your own view and my post is what is the Rules,T&Cs and the norm in CS

    I'm a professional photographer and so are you.
    If you have something aginst me, take it offline, but don't bother to PM me.
    Thank you for your advise not to distory myself, but till date, you're the only one feeling this way and, I find your tone and labelling me as foolish and childish, how should I put it nicely ........ under the belt?
    Anyhow, I'll try not to go down to that level.
    I'm sure by now, everyone here will have their own idea of how they view all who have posted here.
    Perhaps you would want to take a step back and read how others have responded to the postings here, including both yours and mine, and draw your own conclusion.

    Cheers.

    If having a politcal group in this Forum give you the rights to bully other sincere User in ClubSnap, then it is really sad ...

    No, i am not making this up ... please use a search on your past postings ( dated years back ) that you have been nit-picking and the fire-starters -- and yet You are saying you are Innocent ??

    People Lie, facts don't.


  2. #202
    Senior Member
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    East of Singapore
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    1,750

    Default Re: What culture is it here??!!

    Quote Originally Posted by vince123123 View Post
    It is refreshing to note that still some professional photographers also take the view that qualifications are not required in order to give criticism on photographs, unlike other so called "professionals".

    The only people who wave qualifications about are those who are too insecure about the substance of their own posts and have to fall back on their qualifications in order to even make a half-decent point.

    Thanks vince

    Actually, out of all the critics and comments given here, many goods ones come from hobbist or even non shooters.

    In my view,
    A professional photographer is only someone whose main source of income is from photography.

    If he's able to last in this trade it only means that he able to consistanly produce work at a certian level which clients are willing to pay good money for, but that does not mean that he's an expert in in that profession. Just that he's consistant. Many, myself included are in this cat.

    A good and respected photographer is a title and a form of aknowladgement from clients and/or his peers base on his work and actions. It's not something which the photographer can claim to be but something which others claim him/her to be. And he/she don't even have to be a professional photographer.
    I get paid more shooting part time ...... damn, I should find more time to shoot part time

  3. #203
    Senior Member
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    1,750

    Default Re: What culture is it here??!!

    Quote Originally Posted by Enchanted View Post
    If having a politcal group in this Forum give you the rights to bully other sincere User in ClubSnap, then it is really sad ...

    No, i am not making this up ... please use a search on your past postings ( dated years back ) that you have been nit-picking and the fire-starters -- and yet You are saying you are Innocent ??

    People Lie, facts don't.

    As I've said, if you have something against me, take it offline, but don't bother to PM me.

    Again, as I've said, I'm sure by now, everyone here will have their own idea of how they view all who have posted here.
    CSers can judge for themself if I'm nit-picking and who's the fire starter. I'll not take just your opinion for it.

    Just my opinion, I don't think it's fair to myself and others here for you to post " If having a politcal group in this Forum give you the rights to bully other sincere User in ClubSnap "
    It's not fair to the Mods here nor the other CSers in your so called " politcal group ". Everyone is entilted to their opinion, you should not label them as bullies just because they share the same opinion. But than again, that is your opinion and you're entilted to it.

    Yes, People Lie, facts don't, nither do the posting here.

    Cheers
    I get paid more shooting part time ...... damn, I should find more time to shoot part time

  4. #204

    Default Re: What culture is it here??!!

    Quote Originally Posted by Enchanted View Post
    Yes & No -- If you are not proven or validate as a proficient photographer or Photo Artist ( in whatever in your specific fields), your critiques on related photo works will be deem less valuable. However, if the Receiver knew the Critique Giver, in person or in private long-term exchanges, then YES, it will be quite valid, due to personal Trust, that built thru fellowship and sharings.

    Advocating Elitism ? - NO. What i am proposing is Responsibility !

    - - -
    If this is not elitism, then what is?

    What responsibility? We are talking about art and the critic of art. By defination, there is no defination for art. Art is for the ey of the beholder.

    What are you trying to advoicate? I can only think of one, elitism.

    Since I advocate a free world with freedom of expression, feel free to advocate your brand of elitism and exclusionism. I may not like it, and I do not, but I respect your rights to do things, no matter how well thought out they may be.

    Quote Originally Posted by Enchanted View Post
    In my view, the only people could validate is either [1] Paying Clients, [2] Photo Professionals, or [3] Pro Art Critiques ( people who does Critiques for a living ).

    Well, a non-professionals can always comments, but not Critique -- that's the difference.

    However, if that same person is paying to have his comments turned into 'Critiques', then you got to make your own judegement to Serve or Not to Serve.
    Paying customers' comments and criticisms are just that, something aritsts have to live with the make ends meet. I respect that. Please do not equate these commetns from customers with true criticism. It's an insult to the honest critics.

    Again, your yearning for an elitist enviroment ozzes out of every crevices. A non-professional can not criticise? Wow, how much clear can you get to endorsing elitism.

    Go forth and set you your elitist forum. I won't be joining, don't think a free thinker like me will be welcom. And by the way, I am a rank amateur hobbist, I won;t be able to say much.
    deadpoet
    my portfolio

  5. #205
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    Default Re: What culture is it here??!!

    Quote Originally Posted by vince123123 View Post
    The only people who wave qualifications about are those who are too insecure about the substance of their own posts and have to fall back on their qualifications in order to even make a half-decent point.

    I second that.

  6. #206

    Default Re: What culture is it here??!!

    Quote Originally Posted by vince123123 View Post
    It is refreshing to note that still some professional photographers also take the view that qualifications are not required in order to give criticism on photographs, unlike other so called "professionals".

    The only people who wave qualifications about are those who are too insecure about the substance of their own posts and have to fall back on their qualifications in order to even make a half-decent point.

    Hey, how's going ... and how did I missed this comment is beyond me.

    3 cheers for vince
    deadpoet
    my portfolio

  7. #207

    Default Re: What culture is it here??!!

    Quote Originally Posted by vince123123 View Post
    And now you are saying that just because a client is a paying client, and he critiques your work, his criticism is automatically valid?? This is again flawed reasoning. The only reason why you are accepting his criticism is because he is the one writing your paycheck, and the only reason why you are changing your work is because you want to keep the client. Whether you disagree with or challenge the validity of the criticism is immaterial.

    And since when does the word "critique" has a tag "professional" before it? In the same way, we have non-professisonal photographers and we have professional photographers, we can have professional critique and non-professional critique.

    And why is being a professional photographer mean you are giving good critique? A professional photographer may do nothing but shoot cookie-cutter mass-produced photographs every day for a living - does that make him a qualified person in your book?

    Do reexamine your own criteria and remove yourself from inherent bias.

    Totally argee. Its abit extreme to say that only the paying client can validate or critique the piece or that the term critic has to be a professional before it can be acknowledged and recongised. The main thing about a pro critic and a pro photog that separates them from the "non-pros" is the fact that they get paid to do it. There's no other distinction. It seems that you're advocating the same bias as the person who started the thread. what's next? Only a 5 star chef or his client has the right to be a food critic?
    Last edited by garou12; 21st June 2007 at 04:27 PM.

  8. #208
    vince123123
    Guests

    Default Re: What culture is it here??!!

    I think you want to elaborate how is yqt "having a political group in this Forum".

    What political groups are you talking about?

    And if you want to throw an allegation or accusation at someone, the burden of proof is on you to substantiate it with the appropriate references, links to past posts or otherwise.

    It is really amusing each time I see someone accusing another person of something, and then say "go search for it yourself", almost as if the accused has a duty to help the accuser prove his (the accuser's) own point.

    Quote Originally Posted by Enchanted View Post
    If having a politcal group in this Forum give you the rights to bully other sincere User in ClubSnap, then it is really sad ...

    No, i am not making this up ... please use a search on your past postings ( dated years back ) that you have been nit-picking and the fire-starters -- and yet You are saying you are Innocent ??

    People Lie, facts don't.


  9. #209
    vince123123
    Guests

    Default Re: What culture is it here??!!

    Garou12: Just to clarify, in the "you" highlighted in bold/red below, are you referring to me (vince123123) or "Enchanted"?

    Quote Originally Posted by garou12 View Post
    Totally argee. Its abit extreme to say that only the paying client can validate or critique the piece or that the term critic has to be a professional before it can be acknowledged and recongised. The main thing about a pro critic and a pro photog that separates them from the "non-pros" is the fact that they get paid to do it. There's no other distinction. It seems that you're advocating the same bias as the person who started the thread. what's next? Only a 5 star chef or his client has the right to be a food critic?

  10. #210

    Default Re: What culture is it here??!!

    Quote Originally Posted by vince123123 View Post
    Garou12: Just to clarify, in the "you" highlighted in bold/red below, are you referring to me (vince123123) or "Enchanted"?
    Enchanted. not you no worries. I'm trying to be as neutral here and not let emotion into my thought process.

  11. #211
    vince123123
    Guests

    Default Re: What culture is it here??!!

    Alright I thought so too, but again thought its better to confirm just in case

    Cheers!

    Quote Originally Posted by garou12 View Post
    Enchanted. not you no worries. I'm trying to be as neutral here and not let emotion into my thought process.

  12. #212

    Default Re: What culture is it here??!!

    Quote Originally Posted by garou12 View Post
    Totally argee. Its abit extreme to say that only the paying client can validate or critique the piece or that the term critic has to be a professional before it can be acknowledged and recongised. The main thing about a pro critic and a pro photog that separates them from the "non-pros" is the fact that they get paid to do it. There's no other distinction. It seems that you're advocating the same bias as the person who started the thread. what's next? Only a 5 star chef or his client has the right to be a food critic?
    Do you value your personal doctor's opinions or anybody on the street ??

    If either your health, money, reputation and relationship at stake, that's the issue -- others will seems trival, in comparison.


  13. #213
    vince123123
    Guests

    Default Re: What culture is it here??!!

    The question is, when someone posts a photo on Clubsnap for criticism, is he necessarily having his "health, money, reputation and relationship at stake"?

    You seem to be confusing and bringing the issues off to a new tangent.

    Quote Originally Posted by Enchanted View Post
    Do you value your personal doctor's opinions or anybody on the street ??

    If either your health, money, reputation and relationship at stake, that's the issue -- others will seems trival, in comparison.


  14. #214

    Default Re: What culture is it here??!!

    Quote Originally Posted by Enchanted View Post
    Do you value your personal doctor's opinions or anybody on the street ??

    If either your health, money, reputation and relationship at stake, that's the issue -- others will seems trival, in comparison.

    See the difference is when i go see my doctor it is about a medical concern and if it is an objective opinion... His artistic opinion on the other hand is as valid as the next man's. nothing to do with the fact that he might be making more $ than anyone else. I only trust my doctor so far if my health is at stake. Not my artistic integrity or ability.

  15. #215

    Default Re: What culture is it here??!!

    Quote Originally Posted by Enchanted View Post
    Do you value your personal doctor's opinions or anybody on the street ??

    If either your health, money, reputation and relationship at stake, that's the issue -- others will seems trival, in comparison.

    We are talking art. Art is something that is strictly based on the eye of the beholder.

    It is surprising that some can try so hard to argue a lost cause!
    deadpoet
    my portfolio

  16. #216

    Default Re: What culture is it here??!!

    Quote Originally Posted by Deadpoet View Post
    We are talking art. Art is something that is strictly based on the eye of the beholder.

    It is surprising that some can try so hard to argue a lost cause!
    hey you have to at least give the man props for sticking to his convictions.

  17. #217
    vince123123
    Guests

    Default Re: What culture is it here??!!

    Maybe to him, his money, health, reputation and relationship is at stake here?

    Quote Originally Posted by Deadpoet View Post
    We are talking art. Art is something that is strictly based on the eye of the beholder.

    It is surprising that some can try so hard to argue a lost cause!

  18. #218

    Default Re: What culture is it here??!!

    Quote Originally Posted by garou12 View Post
    hey you have to at least give the man props for sticking to his convictions.
    ok ok ... my hats off to the guy as you say ... for sticking up to his conviction of a elitist exclusionary society where only those approved with credential may express their opinions.
    deadpoet
    my portfolio

  19. #219

    Default Re: What culture is it here??!!

    Quote Originally Posted by Deadpoet View Post
    ok ok ... my hats off to the guy as you say ... for sticking up to his conviction of a elitist exclusionary society where only those approved with credential may express their opinions.
    I might not like what he's advocating but i respect him for having the guts to stick to his beliefs.

  20. #220

    Default Re: What culture is it here??!!

    Quote Originally Posted by garou12 View Post
    I might not like what he's advocating but i respect him for having the guts to stick to his beliefs.
    will see, now that all the cards are laid down ...

    but then I agree with you but from a diff direction, he is free to express his opinion, and that is his rights ...
    deadpoet
    my portfolio

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