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Thread: Warning : Beware of couples who pays only a small deposit

  1. #41
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    Default Re: Warning : Beware of couples who pays only a small deposit

    Quote Originally Posted by richliow View Post
    Actually contracts also useless...
    what can you do? sue them?
    You can sue them if you think it's worth your while. But for me, the contract spells out things like I have every right not to give any deliverables (digital images or prints) until all payment is settled.

    I collect all payments 2 weeks b4 the wedding. Also, albums if any have to be paid in FULL even b4 the design stage can start.

    Also, clients who don't agree with my terms, they might want to looking for someone else who accepts $50 for deposit

    Bottomline is, we are photographers, not their bankers.

  2. #42
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    Default Re: Warning : Beware of couples who pays only a small deposit

    well.. there will always be people around doing FOC weddings for their friends and relatives also..

    contract is just a black and white agreement, doesnt mean that you have to sue them if they do not pay up too.

    its very typical here that we use contracts as a way to sue here and there..

    singaporeans also like to sue here and there, thats why the lawyers here business is very good... the judges are growing in size too.

  3. #43
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    Default Re: Warning : Beware of couples who pays only a small deposit

    Quote Originally Posted by canturn View Post
    You can sue them if you think it's worth your while. But for me, the contract spells out things like I have every right not to give any deliverables (digital images or prints) until all payment is settled.

    I collect all payments 2 weeks b4 the wedding. Also, albums if any have to be paid in FULL even b4 the design stage can start.

    Also, clients who don't agree with my terms, they might want to looking for someone else who accepts $50 for deposit

    Bottomline is, we are photographers, not their bankers.
    i know one who accept deposit for $1.99 !!

  4. #44
    Moderator catchlights's Avatar
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    Default Re: Warning : Beware of couples who pays only a small deposit

    Quote Originally Posted by canturn View Post
    You can sue them if you think it's worth your while. But for me, the contract spells out things like I have every right not to give any deliverables (digital images or prints) until all payment is settled.

    I collect all payments 2 weeks b4 the wedding. Also, albums if any have to be paid in FULL even b4 the design stage can start.

    Also, clients who don't agree with my terms, they might want to looking for someone else who accepts $50 for deposit

    Bottomline is, we are photographers, not their bankers.
    I like this part: we are photographers, not their bankers.

    some people even want to their sponsors, shoot their wedding at a "subsidize" rate.
    Shoot to Live, Live to Shoot
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  5. #45

    Default Re: Warning : Beware of couples who pays only a small deposit

    Quote Originally Posted by catchlights View Post
    I like this part: we are photographers, not their bankers.

    some people even want to their sponsors, shoot their wedding at a "subsidize" rate.
    even for "free" some more.

  6. #46
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    Default Re: Warning : Beware of couples who pays only a small deposit

    never did came across such couples who would book a photographer 14mths way ahead. usually i got some ah hoc calls or less than 1 -2 mths getting married trying to search for photographers those kind.

    min i collect 20-30% of the package price.

  7. #47
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    Default Re: Warning : Beware of couples who pays only a small deposit

    Quote Originally Posted by canturn View Post
    You can sue them if you think it's worth your while. But for me, the contract spells out things like I have every right not to give any deliverables (digital images or prints) until all payment is settled.

    I collect all payments 2 weeks b4 the wedding. Also, albums if any have to be paid in FULL even b4 the design stage can start.

    Also, clients who don't agree with my terms, they might want to looking for someone else who accepts $50 for deposit

    Bottomline is, we are photographers, not their bankers.
    mmm....

    i'd say in my opinion that an agreement is worth its effort.

    A properly-drafted agreement can spell out responsibilities and rights of both parties in writing. It may also include a statement of indemnity where u are indemnified (on your part) from compensating the other party if a certain condition realises (i.e. non-occurrence of wedding event, war, acts of God, fire damaging your equipment or prints, unforeseen circumstances, etc). It may also state clearly that you are legally entitled to withold delivery til full payment. It may also specify cancellation policies or last-minute policies.

    Also, a properly-drafted and FAIR agreement not only acts as a weapon to sue them, it may also act as a shield against couples who sue or claim against you for untrue allegations. An agreement may also act as a deterrent against the couple if a clause is included to indemnify the 'injured party' against the legal costs arising to enforce the rights of the 'injured party'.

    However, a word of caution..an agreement should work best if drafted by a good lawyer and is FAIR. You cannot hide behind an unfair agreement which can be declared void. And an agreement should contain all representations made by you to the client. (it will be BEST if an independent witness witnessed the explaining of the agreement and signing of the agreement).

    Again, it is my opinion and just that. The above does not constitute legal advice. You got to seek proper legal advice for this....
    G

  8. #48
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    Default Re: Warning : Beware of couples who pays only a small deposit

    Quote Originally Posted by godzilla60 View Post

    Also, a properly-drafted and FAIR agreement not only acts as a weapon to sue them, it may also act as a shield against couples who sue or claim against you for untrue allegations. An agreement may also act as a deterrent against the couple if a clause is included to indemnify the 'injured party' against the legal costs arising to enforce the rights of the 'injured party'.

    However, a word of caution..an agreement should work best if drafted by a good lawyer and is FAIR. You cannot hide behind an unfair agreement which can be declared void. And an agreement should contain all representations made by you to the client. (it will be BEST if an independent witness witnessed the explaining of the agreement and signing of the agreement).
    I don't think anyone would want to sue the couple for the slightest breach of contract, it's bad for your biz, and might not be worth you while after all.

    I did pay a lawyer quite an amount to draft the agreement, and who at the same time, advise you on the risks involved, as well as whether the clauses are enforceble or not.

    We're getting a little OT here...

  9. #49
    Senior Member sykestang's Avatar
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    Default Re: Warning : Beware of couples who pays only a small deposit

    Quote Originally Posted by jamesong View Post
    You must have a wedding agreement for them to sign when they want your service. All things are spelt out in the agreement.This is a legal and binding contract.
    Errr... dun think such agreement can really bind them.

    In the eyes of the law, this is just an undertaking. For contract to be legalised, think it have to be drafted by a lawyer and sign with witness. Clauses on a legal contract must be sufficient 'considerations' by both parties, being the offer and acceptance.

    It is really difficult to do business nowadays in Singapore.
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  10. #50

    Default Re: Warning : Beware of couples who pays only a small deposit

    Sorry nowadays there are no loyalty. If all the photographers command a fixed deposit then wed couples have no choice. Don't be in a hurry to accept jobs cause they're alot look see, choose like going to the market to buy veg. Don't allow them to do it likewise we must work together and don't UNCUT one another. In long term we may all loss out cause price of our service may drop and deteroiate.

    As a Pro Photographer, we should not be too afraid to say NO. In most developed countries, PP are regarded as very professional people. As long you have the talent and skill, don't be afraid of rejection.

  11. #51

    Default Re: Warning : Beware of couples who pays only a small deposit

    Sad to say and I feel the frustrations... But come to think of it...that's what the deposit was for right? I can't think of other purposes.

    As in, the couple placed the deposit so that in the event they cancelled last minute (which they did), the photographer got back something as compensation. So if $50 had been agreed upon by both parties as a deposit, the couple are not liable for any fault. Same goes for any bookings you make outside.

    Anyway, sad to say again.... Wedding photographers are everywhere in Spore these days. It's easy to become one. And the job is not much respected by wedding couples unless maybe you are popular or some big time name.

  12. #52
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    Default Re: Warning : Beware of couples who pays only a small deposit

    Quote Originally Posted by canturn View Post
    I don't think anyone would want to sue the couple for the slightest breach of contract, it's bad for your biz, and might not be worth you while after all.

    I did pay a lawyer quite an amount to draft the agreement, and who at the same time, advise you on the risks involved, as well as whether the clauses are enforceble or not.

    We're getting a little OT here...
    of cos, one must really consider the situations. if the breach is unintentional or u can live with the damage, why sue? but if the breach is big or the couple claims that you have agreed to something which you have not and produced a witness, that very agreement can save you.... also, a couple who is serious about hiring you will not flinch from a fair contract

    mmm....lawyer's fees no comment on that...but if u really are into professional photo biz, a good generic agreement drawn up once can be used with minimal modifications on every contract.

    haha...a bit OT here...but helps to deter couples who back out at the last minute...
    Last edited by godzilla60; 13th July 2007 at 05:00 PM.
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  13. #53
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    Default Re: Warning : Beware of couples who pays only a small deposit

    Quote Originally Posted by sykestang View Post
    Errr... dun think such agreement can really bind them.
    mmm... on the contrary, an agreement with intended legal relations (best to write that in the agreement) can bind both parties as long as it is fairly drawn up though it is relative as to what is fair. Also, legal relations is usually assumed between two unrelated parties in a business transaction.

    Quote Originally Posted by sykestang View Post
    In the eyes of the law, this is just an undertaking. For contract to be legalised, think it have to be drafted by a lawyer and sign with witness. Clauses on a legal contract must be sufficient 'considerations' by both parties, being the offer and acceptance.
    Not really. a contract need not be drafted by a lawyer, though a lawyer would give u advice on the enforceability and legality of the clauses in the contract. Also, even a verbal agreement can bind both parties as long as you can prove that such an agreement exists. Witnesses help to bolster your case but i dun think it is really necessary. Considerations must be sufficient as in a huge amount. A photographer offers his photography skills and deliverables (photos/cds) as his consideration. The wedding couple offers money (payment) as their consideration. THese should be considered sufficient consideration.

    Quote Originally Posted by sykestang View Post

    It is really difficult to do business nowadays in Singapore.
    yah...u can say that again...trust is only between your family members...the rest is better to be in "black n white".

    As always, do consult a lawyer. do not rely on my opinions...
    G

  14. #54
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    Default Re: Warning : Beware of couples who pays only a small deposit

    Quote Originally Posted by shootaid View Post
    Sorry nowadays there are no loyalty. If all the photographers command a fixed deposit then wed couples have no choice. Don't be in a hurry to accept jobs cause they're alot look see, choose like going to the market to buy veg. Don't allow them to do it likewise we must work together and don't UNCUT one another. In long term we may all loss out cause price of our service may drop and deteroiate.

    As a Pro Photographer, we should not be too afraid to say NO. In most developed countries, PP are regarded as very professional people. As long you have the talent and skill, don't be afraid of rejection.
    yah man...you r right. but to force a wed couples to commit a huge sum upfront at the first meetup may not be easy. maybe u can try (for those HOT dates) to impose a reservation fee of a minimal amount like say $10 to have a week to think over it and then if they decide on it, u charge them the fixed deposit. (works a bit like buying flat at HDB)..

    of course, if the business is not profitable, saying NO is better than offering substandard quality. maintaining a certain level (as long as you dun overprice yourself) tells clients abt the quality of your skills. If reduced to price undercutting, it will all end up like a commodity with the lowest price winning all...
    G

  15. #55
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    Default Re: Warning : Beware of couples who pays only a small deposit

    Quote Originally Posted by kiwi2 View Post
    Sad to say and I feel the frustrations... But come to think of it...that's what the deposit was for right? I can't think of other purposes.

    As in, the couple placed the deposit so that in the event they cancelled last minute (which they did), the photographer got back something as compensation. So if $50 had been agreed upon by both parties as a deposit, the couple are not liable for any fault. Same goes for any bookings you make outside.

    Anyway, sad to say again.... Wedding photographers are everywhere in Spore these days. It's easy to become one. And the job is not much respected by wedding couples unless maybe you are popular or some big time name.
    mmm...yup. so the amount of deposit accepted should cover all loss you will incur if the couple back out of the agreement as well as opportunity cost of accepting the next job.

    maybe can advise the client that if confirmation and payment of bigger deposit not made within a certain time, u will release the booking to another waiting client.

    haha....doesn't matter when your customers dun respect you. most impt is you respect yourself, feel good about your skills and then it will rub off to others thru word of mouth. u will then stand out among the black sheeps....
    G

  16. #56
    Senior Member Big Kahuna's Avatar
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    Default Re: Warning : Beware of couples who pays only a small deposit

    WTF....married also so kiam siap....amazing couple man

    For me....on my wedding day....I give ang pao so shiok that until my mum had to stop me....no choice...too high liao....burp

  17. #57
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    Default Re: Warning : Beware of couples who pays only a small deposit

    Quote Originally Posted by Big Kahuna View Post
    WTF....married also so kiam siap....amazing couple man

    For me....on my wedding day....I give ang pao so shiok that until my mum had to stop me....no choice...too high liao....burp
    yup....for me too....give out too freely maybe under the influence of the malicious cocktail mixed by my wife's friends.....and other tables too....haha
    G

  18. #58

    Default Re: Warning : Beware of couples who pays only a small deposit

    Quote Originally Posted by Big Kahuna View Post
    WTF....married also so kiam siap....amazing couple man
    Mei ban fa. Nowadays cost of living is really high here.

    But then there are some really steady couples. Recently i encountered a lady who told me to reserve for her first as they really like my stuff, but couldn't pay the deposit first as they are based overseas. They did give me a call and I did reserve without a deposit for them. I did reserve for them for about 3 weeks.

    Now they decided to postpone the wedding date, but unfortunately the new date falls on one of my unavailable dates. So bo bian lor. But what really surprised me is that she offers to pay the deposit even though the deal is off.

    Of coz, told her to keep the deposit lar. Next time refer me more biz can liao. Its like those cases in which the couple divorces a few days after their wedding, you do not feel good taking their money also lar.

    I believe in Kharma.

  19. #59

    Default Re: Warning : Beware of couples who pays only a small deposit

    I hope alot of Cser's learn from their foolishness of;-

    1) doing an Assignment for "FREE" or for a Pittance/Low rates in the hope of getting a chance to shoot for a portfolio. Thereby, Depriving other deserving Photographers of their source of income.

    *Alternatively learn by being a Photographer's Assistant first. there are NO shortcuts.

    2) Not collecting or collecting a "small" deposit in the hope of securing an assignment.

    *Alternatively, collect a 50% deposit or do the above no. 1.

    3) Not knowing of bridal studios out there who will "makan" the couples deposit paid to you and they "potong your jalan/lobang" leaving you with a token of $50 to $100 but no assignment to show for, hahaha. what a JOKE!!

    4) Not understanding that a Minimum deposit has to be at least $300 for AD Wedding, this way bridal studios out there will not be able to "swallow" the deposit and your AD Wedding will be your showcase.

    5) Not understanding that AD Wedding is a very demanding and Seroius Assignment and CANNOT Play,Play just becos You DO it for FREE or a LOW fee.

    6) being aware that some Photographer/s have been taken to court for NON Delivery of AD Wedding or Studio shoots.

  20. #60

    Default Re: Warning : Beware of couples who pays only a small deposit

    Quote Originally Posted by Big Kahuna
    WTF....married also so kiam siap....amazing couple man

    For me....on my wedding day....I give ang pao so shiok that until my mum had to stop me....no choice...too high liao....burp
    Quote Originally Posted by godzilla60 View Post
    yup....for me too....give out too freely maybe under the influence of the malicious cocktail mixed by my wife's friends.....and other tables too....haha

    Invite me to your next wedding ok?

    .

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