View Poll Results: Can Singapore possible to withstand Imperial Japanese army invasion ?

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  • No, the situation is hopless

    16 45.71%
  • Yes, Singapore can hold up the invasion

    17 48.57%
  • Not Sure

    2 5.71%
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Thread: Military Discussion : Battle of Singapore (Feb 1942)

  1. #1
    Senior Member King Tiger's Avatar
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    Default Military Discussion : Battle of Singapore (Feb 1942)

    The Battle of Singapore
    The Battle of Singapore was fought from 07 February 1942 to 15 February 1942.
    It ends with the fall of Singapore more than 80,000 British troops, Australian and Commonwealth forces surrender and became prisoners of war, joining another 50,000 more which already taken prisoners by Imperial Japanese army during the Malayan campaign.
    The battle is the greatest military defeat in British military history.


    The discussion is : By Feb 1942, when the whole Malayan Peninsula is lost,
    is there any possiblities for Singapore to withstand the Imperial Japanese army invasion ?



    Japanese troops and armour in Bukit Timah.


    Prelude to the Battle of Singapore : Battle for Malaya
    08 December 1941, the Imperial Japanese Army landed in Malaya, led by
    General Tomoyuki Yamashita, a battle harden and combat experience commander from China campaign.

    10 December 1941, British Battleships HMS Prince of Wales and HMS Repulse, on the way to intercept Japanese landing, was sunk by Imperial Japanese airforce off Kuantan, east of Malaya coast.

    With superior air support, armour, coordination, tactics and battle experience troops from the China campaign,
    the Japanese concentrated their forces, advance down from the Malayan peninsula, flanking, overwhelming and smash British defence lines one after another.
    By 31 January 1942, the last Allied forces withdraw from Malaya and Allied engineers blew up the causeway linking Johore and Singapore.



    Fortress Singapore is now alone, there is no 2nd Dunkirk.


    P.S. Correct me if any of the above information is wrong.
    Purely military discussion only.
    Last edited by King Tiger; 14th June 2007 at 08:40 PM.

  2. #2
    Senior Member King Tiger's Avatar
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    Default Re: Military Discussion : Battle of Singapore (Feb 1942)

    Special highlights to take note (15 Feb 1942)

    Chinese New Year, like Hari Raya and Deepavali, is an special holiday events celebrate by Singaporeans every years.
    Families and friends reach out for each other to celebrate and gather togther for dinners.

    This year 2007 mark 65 years annivesary of the Fall of Singapore.

    65 years ago, 15 Feb 1942, this day is the 1st day of Chinese New Year [ 大年初一 ], this day,
    there are no celebrations,
    there are no fire crackers,
    there are no laughters,
    there are no children playings in the streets,
    there are only cries and death.

    This day, the British surrender to the Japanese.

    This day, the Japanese Occupation of Singapore begins.

    Many Chinese were killed in the Sook Ching Massacre.
    Other races of Singapore and also in Malaya, such as the Malays and the Indians were not spared.

    The people would suffer extreme great hardships under Japanese rule over the next following three years and eigth months rule.

    The Dark Side of Singapore History begins from this day.
    Last edited by King Tiger; 14th June 2007 at 09:34 PM.

  3. #3
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    Default Re: Military Discussion : Battle of Singapore (Feb 1942)

    Hope the link below will provide some useful information

    http://www.s1942.org.sg/s1942/home/

  4. #4
    Senior Member zac08's Avatar
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    Default Re: Military Discussion : Battle of Singapore (Feb 1942)

    As it was, the Allies were actually stronger in fighting force. But the problem was the lack of air cover, tanks and weapons.

    If the allies has more weapons and mines to mine the route in to Singapore, there may have a fighting chance to withstand them for longer. But would it have been possible to hold them off for long, that's another issue. Lack of logistics would have caused the seige to fall eventually.

  5. #5

    Default Re: Military Discussion : Battle of Singapore (Feb 1942)

    If I am not wrong, there was a documentary on about this that said that the Yamashita actually pushed for surrender with a brave and stern face as he later admitted that if the brits didn't surrender, they would be forced to disasterous street fighting and would have lost because they were already spread thin, lacked supplies and were outnumbered by the British. However, the British didn't know this and with all the losses before, decided to surrender.
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    Default Re: Military Discussion : Battle of Singapore (Feb 1942)

    Quote Originally Posted by zac08 View Post
    As it was, the Allies were actually stronger in fighting force. But the problem was the lack of air cover, tanks and weapons.

    If the allies has more weapons and mines to mine the route in to Singapore, there may have a fighting chance to withstand them for longer. But would it have been possible to hold them off for long, that's another issue. Lack of logistics would have caused the seige to fall
    eventually.
    The allies were definitely not stronger in their fighting force. Numerically, they were much superior that's all. Compared to the well trained and battle hardened Japanese troops, the allied forces were a motley of troops who were ill-trained, ill-equiped, unfit, raw recruits, etc.

  7. #7

    Default Re: Military Discussion : Battle of Singapore (Feb 1942)

    I voted for hopeless situation.

    It has nothing to do with who's having military advantage at that point in time, but rather the mindset of the defending commanders. They clearly lack understanding of their opponents.
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    Default Re: Military Discussion : Battle of Singapore (Feb 1942)

    do u know ? they are demons incarnated.

    they threw babies up in the air and used their bayonets and swords to pierce thru.

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    Default Re: Military Discussion : Battle of Singapore (Feb 1942)

    Quote Originally Posted by raincool2005 View Post
    do u know ? they are demons incarnated.

    they threw babies up in the air and used their bayonets and swords to pierce thru.
    Every Chinese in the world will never forget the Rape of Nanking.

  10. #10
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    Default Re: Military Discussion : Battle of Singapore (Feb 1942)

    Quote Originally Posted by redstorm View Post
    Every Chinese in the world will never forget the Rape of Nanking.
    do u know why the word Rape is used ? becos even old ladies were not spared.. just imagine how demonic their nationalist beliefs were..

  11. #11

    Default Re: Military Discussion : Battle of Singapore (Feb 1942)

    wa lao eh.

    TS, you know where this thread will lead one still post.

    hmmm....... eikin should be coming in anytime soon .



    anyway, since they could steamroll through the whole of malaya like a hot Katana sword through wasabi, don't see why Singapore could stop them.

  12. #12
    Moderator Francis247's Avatar
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    Default Re: Military Discussion : Battle of Singapore (Feb 1942)

    Let us not OT in this thread.
    This is a very interesting discussion.
    It is not about who is right or wrong in WWII.
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  13. #13
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    Default Re: Military Discussion : Battle of Singapore (Feb 1942)

    The British are defending just a colony which they had many outside at the time. Morever, Germans were attempting to invade Britian.

    The Japanese are taking it for their national expansion and service to their beloved emperor. They need it becos the Americans had cut oil supplies to them.

    who will fight better ?
    Last edited by raincool2005; 14th June 2007 at 09:45 PM.

  14. #14
    Senior Member King Tiger's Avatar
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    Default Re: Military Discussion : Battle of Singapore (Feb 1942)

    Quote Originally Posted by zac08 View Post
    As it was, the Allies were actually stronger in fighting force. But the problem was the lack of air cover, tanks and weapons.

    If the allies has more weapons and mines to mine the route in to Singapore, there may have a fighting chance to withstand them for longer. But would it have been possible to hold them off for long, that's another issue. Lack of logistics would have caused the seige to fall eventually.
    Hi zac08, actually during the period of Jan and Feb, the Allies do reinforce divisons from Australia and planes from Sumatra and India.

    Reinforcement only stop when Singapore surrender.

  15. #15
    Moderator Francis247's Avatar
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    Default Re: Military Discussion : Battle of Singapore (Feb 1942)

    Back to the topic.

    I casted my vote as a hopeless situation.
    Very much that I hope that Singapore can hold the invasion in 1942 but let us look from all possible perspective.

    Singapore is surrounded by sea and there is no way out, no road to retreat, hence enemy can attack us from all round. The way out is via all round defense to hold our ground.
    If we are to do an all-round defense, there are air-strike and artillery to take out any defense line. At the same time, the Jap air planes can strike our mainland with bombs and crippling our lines.

    Even if we are to hold, we need to outlast the Japs appetitie for war or another way is to "围魏救赵" which means we need alliance forces to attack the Jap at their home country. But at that time, America, British, Russia and France are facing another front in Germany hence this is not possible.

    This situation is quite hopeless at that time.

    The Strategy of 围魏救赵

    When the enemy is too strong to be attacked directly, then attack something he holds dear. Know that in all things he cannot be superior. Somewhere there is a gap in the armour, a weakness that can be attacked instead.

    The origins of this proverb is from the Warring States Period. The state of Wi attacked Zhao and laid siege to its capital Handan. Zho turned to Q for help, but the Q general Sun Bin determined it would be unwise to meet the army of Wi head on, so he instead attacked their capital at Daliang. The army of Wi retreated in haste, and they were ambushed and defeated at the Battle of Guiling, with the Wi general Pang Juan slain on the field.
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  16. #16
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    Default Re: Military Discussion : Battle of Singapore (Feb 1942)

    The Allied Forces in the Far East didn't get all the priorities where troops, equipment, arms, etc. are concerned. Afterall, the British and its allies were fighting to containing the Nazi which were sweeping thru Europe and waiting to go ashore the British isles. All their resources were channelled towards containing the Nazis and very little were allocated to the Impregnable Fortess (Singapore) which Churchill believed was strong enough to withstand the Japanese onslaught. The allocation of the battleships, Prince of Wales and the Repulse, were the only significant token allocation to the Far East and without air cover they were like sitting ducks. They sunk off the coast of Kuantan under heavy Japanese bombardment.

  17. #17
    Senior Member King Tiger's Avatar
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    Default Re: Military Discussion : Battle of Singapore (Feb 1942)

    30,000 verus 85,000, the number which British never known.

  18. #18

    Default Re: Military Discussion : Battle of Singapore (Feb 1942)

    Quote Originally Posted by King Tiger View Post
    Hi zac08, actually during the period of Jan and Feb, the Allies do reinforce divisons from Australia and planes from Sumatra and India.

    Reinforcement only stop when Singapore surrender.
    There 1 thing I dun seem to get.. where are those jap fighters that were used to bomb sg stationed? how many were there compared to those reinforcements supplied by allied forces.
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  19. #19

    Default Re: Military Discussion : Battle of Singapore (Feb 1942)

    Quote Originally Posted by Francis247 View Post
    But at that time, America, British, Russia and France are facing another front in Germany hence this is not possible.
    I believe Americans were not really involved in the European theater.
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  20. #20
    Senior Member King Tiger's Avatar
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    Default Re: Military Discussion : Battle of Singapore (Feb 1942)

    Should General Percival decide not to give up on 15 Feb 1942, issuing a full-counter attack at all front.

    Follow up by a daring punch thru along the west to retake Jurong Line and the north to retake Woodland perimeter.

    The British might in turn contain the Japanese forces, and in the position to outflank them from their rear at Kranji/Choa Chu Kang.

    The Japanese might not have enough time to withdrawn all their troops back to Johore.

    What do you guys think ? Any possibilities and capacity of the British forces to achieve this ?

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