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Thread: signboard

  1. #21

    Default Re: signboard

    Quote Originally Posted by inrewind View Post
    its actually a dedication to a friend who passed away quite some time ago. he loved fishing and would go to prohibited spots just to fish ....
    Thanks for sharing.

    Now that is a tough thing to try to say in a photograph. A photo is certainly not the be all and end all in communication. And I don't think a single signboard can say it.

    But we can say two things:

    1. A photograph "sees" everything.

    In human eyes, now with knowledge of what was in your mind, we see only the signboard. But in a photo, the lamp post, the light bulb, the sky and clouds are all equally seen. There is nothing to separate your intended subject from the background.

    From what you said, the subject should clearly be just the no fishing sign and when you take that picture you should make very clear that this is so by minimising the other background distractions, eg blurring the rest with a shallow depth of field or repositioning your angle, for examples.

    2. Private and Public Communications.

    As you may have also realised, we cannot see what was in your mind in this picture, but it surely meant something to you. But as something private whatever you have done is perfectly ok, as long as it mean something to you. However if your intention was to tell the world about your friend then it is a very different matter.

    Just isolating and making the no fishing sign a clear subject will not be enough to say it. People will ask, "So? So what about a signboard?" So there must be something more, eg to link the sign board to something else that suggest someone who loves fishing even to break rules. Maybe like someone fishing directly under the no fishing sign. But that may not be personal enough. Maybe a pair of worn out empty shoes at the base of the sign, to suggest a person that once was but now missing. There are as many ways of doing it as your imagination.

    Two conclusions can be drawn here, namely that to take a photograph you must see what the camera sees and not what your mind sees. And secondly you must see what others see in your photo and again not what your own mind sees. Only then can you say something meaningful for the public if that is your intention.

    Finally, on disagreement, I think it is OK for disagreements and arguments. Most people agree with that, but dont actually believe it or know how to argue. A good argument is good and healthy, for we all learn in a good disagreement and overcome differences, provided people are objective - again most people say they are - mainly able to keep separate the matter argued over from whatever personal attachment or stakes they may have in that matter, and whose egos are not fragile.

    So if I slam a matter, it is not the same as slamming you, the person. For example a lousy picture is a lousy picture, but it does not necessarily mean the person who took that lousy picture is lousy, does it? But most people take such personally, ie if I say strongly that a picture is rubbish these self-proclaimed objective people feel I am calling them rubbish, and this is bad for making good arguments.

    But the worst and most simple-minded thing is to try to impose just one way of seeing and saying things. Then we are truly blind.
    Last edited by espion; 6th June 2007 at 04:38 AM.

  2. #22
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    Default Re: signboard

    Quote Originally Posted by espion View Post
    Now that is a tough thing to try to say in a photograph. A photo is certainly not the be all and end all in communication. And I don't think a single signboard can say it.
    you're self-contradicting yourself

    Quote Originally Posted by espion View Post
    So one possible goal - there other possibilities too - of a good pic is that people know what you saying without you saying a word: the pic speaks for itself.
    Quote Originally Posted by espion View Post
    But we can say two things:

    1. A photograph "sees" everything.

    In human eyes, now with knowledge of what was in your mind, we see only the signboard. But in a photo, the lamp post, the light bulb, the sky and clouds are all equally seen. There is nothing to separate your intended subject from the background.

    From what you said, the subject should clearly be just the no fishing sign and when you take that picture you should make very clear that this is so by minimising the other background distractions, eg blurring the rest with a shallow depth of field or repositioning your angle, for examples.
    you can just say that TS should simplify the frame so that the signboard becomes the main object of the frame. but is the signboard really the only thing needed?

    Quote Originally Posted by inrewind View Post
    guys, firstly maybe I should have explained my pic.
    my bad for not doing that.
    as i am pretty new at photography, i have yet to tell stories thru them.
    that said, a picture sometimes needs words to express wat the photographer wants to relay.
    esp in my case as i am still learning.

    its actually a dedication to a friend who passed away quite some time ago.
    he loved fishing and would go to prohibited spots just to fish and get chase ard by rangers.
    i was trying to dedicate this to him, tryin to say that nothing, not even a signboard can stop him fishing, esp in heaven.
    so i tried to take the signboard as in to signify wat he loved most, at least to me.

    thanks for all the critique, comments and support guys.
    i did not mean to start a disagreement.

    once again, thanks dudes.
    espion, did you miss out on the keywords? not saying whether this image works at this point, but it's clearly not without reasons that this image is made this way. we cannot assume that it's an ''accidental'' shot as implied in your first post.

    Quote Originally Posted by espion View Post
    2. Private and Public Communications.

    As you may have also realised, we cannot see what was in your mind in this picture, but it surely meant something to you. But as something private whatever you have done is perfectly ok, as long as it mean something to you. However if your intention was to tell the world about your friend then it is a very different matter.

    Just isolating and making the no fishing sign a clear subject will not be enough to say it. People will ask, "So? So what about a signboard?" So there must be something more, eg to link the sign board to something else that suggest someone who loves fishing even to break rules. Maybe like someone fishing directly under the no fishing sign. But that may not be personal enough. Maybe a pair of worn out empty shoes at the base of the sign, to suggest a person that once was but now missing. There are as many ways of doing it as your imagination.

    Two conclusions can be drawn here, namely that to take a photograph you must see what the camera sees and not what your mind sees. And secondly you must see what others see in your photo and again not what your own mind sees. Only then can you say something meaningful for the public if that is your intention.
    yes the possibilities are many, and it's up to the ability of TS to create that picture that tells his story.

    Quote Originally Posted by espion View Post
    Finally, on disagreement, I think it is OK for disagreements and arguments. Most people agree with that, but dont actually believe it or know how to argue. A good argument is good and healthy, for we all learn in a good disagreement and overcome differences, provided people are objective - again most people say they are - mainly able to keep separate the matter argued over from whatever personal attachment or stakes they may have in that matter, and whose egos are not fragile.

    So if I slam a matter, it is not the same as slamming you, the person. For example a lousy picture is a lousy picture, but it does not necessarily mean the person who took that lousy picture is lousy, does it? But most people take such personally, ie if I say strongly that a picture is rubbish these self-proclaimed objective people feel I am calling them rubbish, and this is bad for making good arguments.
    i would say that your method is extremely flawed, i wouldn't use the word 'slam' to describe the act of critique. you started by assuming that this is a ''non-pic'', which i'll read as not being worth a picture following your second statement. i'd rather questions be asked first to find out more about the TS's motivation of taking the picture. someone experienced enough will immediately notice the lack of information to begin with. there's description from TS, but not enough. the intention was not mentioned. the first task is to look for the intention, no critique is possible without knowing the intention of the act of creating art. this is also why i mentioned that i only agree with you on the question you posted and i underlined from your first post.

    if you noticed my examples on short writeup for critique purposes http://forums.clubsnap.org/showthread.php?t=275677

    it's always about ''I want to depict ...'' ''I want to show ...'' ''I feel ...'' '' I have captured a mood ...'' without knowing the intention critique cannot start, at best only technical advices can be offered. most critique seekers, although having their short writeup done, are still not writing down their intentions, but considering efforts have been made, none of the SUs have removed any of those threads with inadequate writing on the artistic intention.

    Quote Originally Posted by espion View Post
    this is an example of a non-pic. there is nothing in there that is pic worthy. and it is not even clear what is ur subject: the square board? (but why is it touching the edge of the pic?) the no fishing sign? the spherical light? the clouds? or what? and what is that u are trying to say with all these elements? it is like someone or something accidentally firing off a PnS camera.
    Quote Originally Posted by espion View Post
    But the worst and most simple-minded thing is to try to impose just one way of seeing and saying things. Then we are truly blind.
    you say this best.

  3. #23
    Senior Member Cheesecake's Avatar
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    Default Re: signboard

    Quote Originally Posted by eikin View Post
    you're self-contradicting yourself





    you can just say that TS should simplify the frame so that the signboard becomes the main object of the frame. but is the signboard really the only thing needed?



    espion, did you miss out on the keywords? not saying whether this image works at this point, but it's clearly not without reasons that this image is made this way. we cannot assume that it's an ''accidental'' shot as implied in your first post.



    yes the possibilities are many, and it's up to the ability of TS to create that picture that tells his story.



    i would say that your method is extremely flawed, i wouldn't use the word 'slam' to describe the act of critique. you started by assuming that this is a ''non-pic'', which i'll read as not being worth a picture following your second statement. i'd rather questions be asked first to find out more about the TS's motivation of taking the picture. someone experienced enough will immediately notice the lack of information to begin with. there's description from TS, but not enough. the intention was not mentioned. the first task is to look for the intention, no critique is possible without knowing the intention of the act of creating art. this is also why i mentioned that i only agree with you on the question you posted and i underlined from your first post.

    if you noticed my examples on short writeup for critique purposes http://forums.clubsnap.org/showthread.php?t=275677

    it's always about ''I want to depict ...'' ''I want to show ...'' ''I feel ...'' '' I have captured a mood ...'' without knowing the intention critique cannot start, at best only technical advices can be offered. most critique seekers, although having their short writeup done, are still not writing down their intentions, but considering efforts have been made, none of the SUs have removed any of those threads with inadequate writing on the artistic intention.





    you say this best.

    eikin have illustrated his points and what he has typed here made a lot of sense.

    i hope the TS have really learned something from what eikin have posted as i believe this is the correct way to post a critique and to share one's constructive comments and suggestions.

    in CS, we hope that it'll be a friendly forum for all photography enthusiasts to share their work and to learn, in a friendly and polite manner (of course).

    there's no room for rude and abusive posts, even if one can 'claim' that it is his/her style.
    we believe one can get the right message across without the need to be rude and abusive in their replies to a photo posted up for sharing or for critique.

    i'm closing this thread as it has certainly served its purpose.
    You'll Never Walk Alone! - i have the best job in the world!

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