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Thread: S'pore eyes holidaymakers to boost population

  1. #21
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    Default Re: S'pore eyes holidaymakers to boost population

    Quote Originally Posted by snowspeeder View Post
    Great! In 30 yrs time we'll have more kakis for the larger pool of grey population.
    tt'll open up a whole new world of photography services.

  2. #22

    Default Re: S'pore eyes holidaymakers to boost population

    i dun know why your government is trying so hard to lure FT's. with all their wisdom don't they realize that an FT's lifestyle is different and nothing they can do, no matter how much as* kissing they do for FT's will ever change that?

    my wife and i have been here a number of years and we have made a conscious decision not have children here because we don't want to raise kids here. simply put, we prefer a different lifestyle for our children to have. singapore cannot offer what we want for our children and many expats feel the same way. from the laws, to customs, to lifestyles and attitudes, many expats don't want to raise their kids in singapore. what works for singapore and singaporeans is fine, but it doesn't work for most expats. it would probably be the same for singaporeans if they went to a foreign country so this statement should not be taken critically..ok

    sure it's clean, relatively safe, relatively convenient...but so are so many other places. in my opinion, there is not much here (to my accustomed lifestyle) and the place does not offer much (again, to my accustomed lifestyle) so unless things changed more to an expats lifestyle, i would say the powers that be are really looking at the wrong resources to develop. the resources they should be putting money in to develop is its own people, not foreigners. like i said earlier, money will never get my wife and i to have and raise kids here and the powers that be need to know it is a choice that cannot be bought. i can honestly tell you, many expats feel the same way. in fact i've seen so many families split up where the wife takes the kids back home and the father stays here to work (and no don't think it is because of your women). so that should tell the leaders that it is not about money or incentives.

    besides, a two week stay is nice but when you live in a place and see it for what it really is, it changes; sometimes better, sometimes worse. all over the world we hear this phrase, "it's a nice place to visit but i wouldn't wanna live there." again, just laying it out, not meaning to upset anyone. for as long as i've been here, i've always said i think local people should always come first and i wish you guys the best even after i'm long gone and back home


    you guys have a good day.

  3. #23

    Default Re: S'pore eyes holidaymakers to boost population

    Quote Originally Posted by Hawaiisg View Post
    i dun know why your government is trying so hard to lure FT's. with all their wisdom don't they realize that an FT's lifestyle is different and nothing they can do, no matter how much as* kissing they do for FT's will ever change that?

    my wife and i have been here a number of years and we have made a conscious decision not have children here because we don't want to raise kids here. simply put, we prefer a different lifestyle for our children to have. singapore cannot offer what we want for our children and many expats feel the same way. from the laws, to customs, to lifestyles and attitudes, many expats don't want to raise their kids in singapore. what works for singapore and singaporeans is fine, but it doesn't work for most expats. it would probably be the same for singaporeans if they went to a foreign country so this statement should not be taken critically..ok

    sure it's clean, relatively safe, relatively convenient...but so are so many other places. in my opinion, there is not much here (to my accustomed lifestyle) and the place does not offer much (again, to my accustomed lifestyle) so unless things changed more to an expats lifestyle, i would say the powers that be are really looking at the wrong resources to develop. the resources they should be putting money in to develop is its own people, not foreigners. like i said earlier, money will never get my wife and i to have and raise kids here and the powers that be need to know it is a choice that cannot be bought. i can honestly tell you, many expats feel the same way. in fact i've seen so many families split up where the wife takes the kids back home and the father stays here to work (and no don't think it is because of your women). so that should tell the leaders that it is not about money or incentives.

    besides, a two week stay is nice but when you live in a place and see it for what it really is, it changes; sometimes better, sometimes worse. all over the world we hear this phrase, "it's a nice place to visit but i wouldn't wanna live there." again, just laying it out, not meaning to upset anyone. for as long as i've been here, i've always said i think local people should always come first and i wish you guys the best even after i'm long gone and back home


    you guys have a good day.
    If only the leaders of the country would take note of what you have just written.

    I agree wholeheartedly.

  4. #24
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    Default Re: S'pore eyes holidaymakers to boost population

    Quote Originally Posted by Hawaiisg View Post
    i dun know why your government is trying so hard to lure FT's. with all their wisdom don't they realize that an FT's lifestyle is different and nothing they can do, no matter how much as* kissing they do for FT's will ever change that?

    my wife and i have been here a number of years and we have made a conscious decision not have children here because we don't want to raise kids here. simply put, we prefer a different lifestyle for our children to have. singapore cannot offer what we want for our children and many expats feel the same way. from the laws, to customs, to lifestyles and attitudes, many expats don't want to raise their kids in singapore. what works for singapore and singaporeans is fine, but it doesn't work for most expats. it would probably be the same for singaporeans if they went to a foreign country so this statement should not be taken critically..ok

    sure it's clean, relatively safe, relatively convenient...but so are so many other places. in my opinion, there is not much here (to my accustomed lifestyle) and the place does not offer much (again, to my accustomed lifestyle) so unless things changed more to an expats lifestyle, i would say the powers that be are really looking at the wrong resources to develop. the resources they should be putting money in to develop is its own people, not foreigners. like i said earlier, money will never get my wife and i to have and raise kids here and the powers that be need to know it is a choice that cannot be bought. i can honestly tell you, many expats feel the same way. in fact i've seen so many families split up where the wife takes the kids back home and the father stays here to work (and no don't think it is because of your women). so that should tell the leaders that it is not about money or incentives.

    besides, a two week stay is nice but when you live in a place and see it for what it really is, it changes; sometimes better, sometimes worse. all over the world we hear this phrase, "it's a nice place to visit but i wouldn't wanna live there." again, just laying it out, not meaning to upset anyone. for as long as i've been here, i've always said i think local people should always come first and i wish you guys the best even after i'm long gone and back home


    you guys have a good day.
    we are short of talented skills.. that why we want to bring in the good ones.

  5. #25

    Default Re: S'pore eyes holidaymakers to boost population

    I think there is something about inbreeding that worries some people.

  6. #26
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    Default Re: S'pore eyes holidaymakers to boost population

    Eh? I think there is sufficient diversity in Singapore to not qualify as "inbreeding"...

  7. #27
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    Default Re: S'pore eyes holidaymakers to boost population

    Hawaiisg: I agree wholeheartedly with you on those points. It's not only foreign expats, heck, even locals are choosing to send their children overseas for education and migrating subsequently. The problem runs deeper than they think. And introducing such legislations are only going to worsen the "push".

  8. #28
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    Default Re: S'pore eyes holidaymakers to boost population

    Quote Originally Posted by Parchiao View Post
    SINGAPORE, May 19 (Reuters) - Singapore is to allow young foreign holidaymakers to work in the city-state as part of efforts to attract skilled migrants, leading newspapers said on Saturday.
    Singapore, which wants to raise its population from 4.5 million to 6.5 million, will allow undergraduates and graduates from seven countries -- including France, Germany, Britain and the United States -- and the Chinese region of Hong Kong to look for employment while on holiday in the country.

    "This programme will target to bring bright young people to Singapore," Manpower Minister Ng Eng Hen was quoted by The Business Times newspaper.

    The government hopes these students, aged between 17 and 30, will return to Singapore after an initial working holiday of up to six months.

    "These students and graduates are a rich source of talent whom we should try to tap on when they eventually join the workforce," he added.

    Singapore is widely seen as one of the world's freest economies but it also has one of the lowest global birth-rates.


    -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    This is going to backfire. Singaporeans are going to face stiffer competition, work harder and longer hours, have less time for children let alone have children to begin with. Foreigners from foreign countries are not going to have many children anyway, and they will not be any guarantees that foreigners from developed countries will want to settle down here because they will feel they have downgraded, more likely for this to happen for those from China and India as it is an upgrade for them, just like our forefathers.

    6.5m ? MRT trains are going to be even more jam packed like those in Tokyo ! low-birth rate ? sigh.. why they still dun get it ? things are expensive here..
    Last edited by raincool2005; 21st May 2007 at 12:13 AM.

  9. #29
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    Default Re: S'pore eyes holidaymakers to boost population

    Not sure what the fuss is all about - a lot of countries have had a Working Holiday Programme agreement with nationals of other countries for a long time now (eg. UK, Canada, Australia, Japan, New Zealand to name a few countries with such a programme).

    Generally what these WHP agreements allow is for young people (usually 18-30) to have an extended stay within the host country (usually 1 - 2 years) and during their stay, they can work to support themselves. As an example, Singaporeans can apply for a working holiday visa to the UK, which allows them to stay in the UK for up to 2 years (and work for up to half their stay to support themselves).

    The main difference though is there are no restrictions on the type of work for the Singapore scheme, other countries generally have a restriction on the type of work people can do - but in practicality those restrictions aren't really observed in a lot of cases.

    Having a WHP is a good idea to enable young people from other countries to experience life and culture in your country - and you may get more people to come and visit and experience life in your country - but a lot of other things need to be done to really convince people to stay and raise families here. By itself, this scheme won't have any impact on increasing long term population - but maybe as part of something else... it makes it easier for people to come here and experience life here for a short period.

  10. #30
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    Default Re: S'pore eyes holidaymakers to boost population

    Exactly. It doesn't serve its intended purpose! Unless they are thinking that the foreign talent will fall in love and marry a local and proceed on to having a family here.

  11. #31

    Default Re: S'pore eyes holidaymakers to boost population

    Quote Originally Posted by raincool2005 View Post
    we are short of talented skills.. that why we want to bring in the good ones.

    i hear it all the time and i don't buy it...dun get mad at me for saying this but i think singapore is conditioned to hear "we are short on talents...we are a small nation, few people, talent pool is too small, etc. etc. etc., on and on..." you know what, for the most part that's all BS.

    i say that because i come from hawaii and it's a small place with even less people...far less only around 1.2 million. we don't really have talent issues (creative, sports, business, etc.) and it is because we have access to do whatever and be whatever we want...but so do singaporeans. like singapore, hawaii was colonized and for better or for worse became a state eventhough hawaii was at one time a sovereign nation, in fact it still is fighting to be a sovereign nation again just as singapore is. anyways, that's a different story.

    the point is we are not constantly and consistently told we do not have talent and need to import from either foreign contries or the rest of the states for the matter. true, singapore's economy is very different and even better in many regards than ours but living on a island you have to depend on yourself and on your neighbor...not always bring in help. when you do that you will never take away the colonial mindset of westerners being "better" or of westerners needing to "show you how" to do things. this is something people in hawaii have to live with everyday and many resent and if your leaders continue down this road, you are going to see a culture lost, and a people who are second rate in their own land (just as we were/are). and to be honest, i already see that here. i really don't see anything distinctly singaporean because i don't even know what singaporean is or what it identifies with (being truthful here not condescending k guys) and i often see westerners getting preferred treatment.

    mark my words because as i said earlier what will get the numbers your leaders want and get FT's to settle here and raise families is lifestyle, not money. which means their lifestyle will infringe more and more upon you. land, rentals, resources, jobs, are some of the challenges you will face with an influx. having seen it in hawaii, i really hope you don't have to go through it here...

    anyways this is an opinion from a foreigner, what matters and only matters is what you as a nation decide.

    have a good day and don't take anything i said personally...

  12. #32

    Default Re: S'pore eyes holidaymakers to boost population

    Quote Originally Posted by Yatlapball View Post
    Hawaiisg: I agree wholeheartedly with you on those points. It's not only foreign expats, heck, even locals are choosing to send their children overseas for education and migrating subsequently. The problem runs deeper than they think. And introducing such legislations are only going to worsen the "push".
    i agree...i really think locally singapore is going to have more of a push than a pull
    and the inbreeding comment by someone else was not cool. the pull singapore will have in my view, is a lot of service industry workers from countries like the philippines/china once the marina area is developed. sometimes i think the government already knows this so that is why it is preparing you by telling you we want to bring in more FT's. regarding the holiday thing...like i said, visiting a place and living there are two different things. the leaders here need to realize that as good as they think singapore is, many foreigners still would not live here and it's because of lifestyle. so instead of throwing resources there, they should keep it here for you guys.

    ...just my opinion

  13. #33

    Default Re: S'pore eyes holidaymakers to boost population

    Sg will have to really think hard on coming up with a really good contigency plan before China decides to sponsor the building of the canal thru the Isthmus of Kra in Southern Thailand.

    It will be too late once ground is broken. Sg will be screwed.

    If they are capable of screwing us on the Soochow project, I wouldn't put it pass them on doing the same with a project like this. It is to their advantage to do it anyway - it'll cut the time it takes to ship of goods from China between the Sth China Sea and the Indian Ocean by a significant amount of time (fuel and time savings) and bypass the pirate infested waters of the Malayan Strait. Plus they will have a part dibs of the canal fees too.
    Last edited by Tetrode; 21st May 2007 at 08:35 PM.

  14. #34
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    Default Re: S'pore eyes holidaymakers to boost population

    Singapore is turning into a dumping ground for the second-best of the western world...

  15. #35
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    Default Re: S'pore eyes holidaymakers to boost population

    Hawaiisg, you should do all of us a favour and pen your views to the ST Forum and Today newspaper

  16. #36
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    Default Re: S'pore eyes holidaymakers to boost population

    Quote Originally Posted by born_slippy View Post
    Singapore is turning into a dumping ground for the second-best of the western world...
    Australia is also same what.

  17. #37
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    Default Re: S'pore eyes holidaymakers to boost population

    Quote Originally Posted by Hawaiisg View Post
    i hear it all the time and i don't buy it...dun get mad at me for saying this but i think singapore is conditioned to hear "we are short on talents...we are a small nation, few people, talent pool is too small, etc. etc. etc., on and on..." you know what, for the most part that's all BS.

    i say that because i come from hawaii and it's a small place with even less people...far less only around 1.2 million. we don't really have talent issues (creative, sports, business, etc.) and it is because we have access to do whatever and be whatever we want...but so do singaporeans. like singapore, hawaii was colonized and for better or for worse became a state eventhough hawaii was at one time a sovereign nation, in fact it still is fighting to be a sovereign nation again just as singapore is. anyways, that's a different story.

    the point is we are not constantly and consistently told we do not have talent and need to import from either foreign contries or the rest of the states for the matter. true, singapore's economy is very different and even better in many regards than ours but living on a island you have to depend on yourself and on your neighbor...not always bring in help. when you do that you will never take away the colonial mindset of westerners being "better" or of westerners needing to "show you how" to do things. this is something people in hawaii have to live with everyday and many resent and if your leaders continue down this road, you are going to see a culture lost, and a people who are second rate in their own land (just as we were/are). and to be honest, i already see that here. i really don't see anything distinctly singaporean because i don't even know what singaporean is or what it identifies with (being truthful here not condescending k guys) and i often see westerners getting preferred treatment.

    mark my words because as i said earlier what will get the numbers your leaders want and get FT's to settle here and raise families is lifestyle, not money. which means their lifestyle will infringe more and more upon you. land, rentals, resources, jobs, are some of the challenges you will face with an influx. having seen it in hawaii, i really hope you don't have to go through it here...

    anyways this is an opinion from a foreigner, what matters and only matters is what you as a nation decide.

    have a good day and don't take anything i said personally...
    I like your honesty. Many of my colleauges who are PRs intend to leave Singapore once their kids finished sec education and they themselves completed their Masters and PHDs sponsored by the Singapore govt. Well, sponsored by the Govt means taxpayers' money.

    When the locals air their views abt their concerns on FTs, the govt thinks that we are being "close-minded", and not receptive to the nation's "needs".

    They should really hear it from the FTs themselves, and hope you can really do us favour by sending your views to the ST forum.

    Thanks.

  18. #38

    Default Re: S'pore eyes holidaymakers to boost population

    Ha Ha..... The colonial mindset is always in Asian's minds. That's a fact.

    So, the AngMoh is always regarded as foreign talent, there is no doubt about it. And AngMoh's lifestyle is always different from ours, there is no way they are going to stay in any part of Asia, let's face it.

    So long as we don't develop our own talent and have confidant in ourselves, we are always going to depend on others. Just look at Japan, in the last century, they send their own people to the western countries to learn all kinds of new technologies. Then, they rely on their own people to develop new technologies, created many successful companies and become one of the largest economic power today.

    Singapore is rely too much on foreign companies. It should help more local companies and it's own people, so that in the long run, it is it's own people who is going to run the country, not the foreigners. Foreigners are here to earn quick bucks, they have no obligation to make Singapore a Success.

  19. #39

    Default Re: S'pore eyes holidaymakers to boost population

    Quote Originally Posted by Hawaiisg View Post
    i agree...i really think locally singapore is going to have more of a push than a pull
    and the inbreeding comment by someone else was not cool. the pull singapore will have in my view, is a lot of service industry workers from countries like the philippines/china once the marina area is developed. sometimes i think the government already knows this so that is why it is preparing you by telling you we want to bring in more FT's. regarding the holiday thing...like i said, visiting a place and living there are two different things. the leaders here need to realize that as good as they think singapore is, many foreigners still would not live here and it's because of lifestyle. so instead of throwing resources there, they should keep it here for you guys.

    ...just my opinion
    Duh! Must you take the word literally?

    What the government wants is diversity in all aspects.

  20. #40

    Default Re: S'pore eyes holidaymakers to boost population

    Last year I read about this government fully sponsored NUS student from Ch**a. That guy created such a rage amongst other local university students here that in a forum that some Singaporean even asking him to come out personally for a 1 to 1 brawl.

    It was in the newspaper, it was quoted that this "foreign talent" said (vaguely, just the points- translated from mandrin):

    "...Singapore gov*****nt is really stupid to think that I'll serve this stupid co**try... I'll just go when I got my degree... come get me if you can.. Hell with the bond... And you dumb Sing*****ans always think so highly of yourselves... wait till you see who is more sucessful..."

    I'm no intention of inciting anything here but look, this is what you get for embracing the foreign talent propaganda that the house besides Boat Quay wants you to believe.

    I personally believe it's more than that as there're strong reasons that all these are politically motivated. If some of you can recall the Trade of Balance concept in Economics.

    But buying favours like that from these countries will result the expenses of our people. Which is the greater of the evils? I don't know.

    Peace.

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