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Thread: Annual Leave During Probation

  1. #61

    Default Re: Annual Leave During Probation

    Several people have asked - so to clarify:

    (1) Joined company 2 Jan 2007

    (2) In March 2007, I had to take 3 days leave to accompany wife to Tokyo for her business trip. I had to go because wife needed daily injection in the mornings.

    (3) In April 2007, I took 1 day leave to accompany wife to NUH for a Day Surgery. After that wife was on MC for 2.5 weeks, rest in bed.

    (4) In April 2007, I took 0.5 day leave to accompany wife to NUH to remove stitches and checkup.

    (5) In April 2007 I took 0.5 day leave again to take wife to NUH for checkup.

    (6) Monday 14 May I applied leave to accompany wife to NUH on Monday 28 May 07 (2 weeks notice). Then she called me and say that why I make appointment without applying for leave first? Huh? Then she said since I was on probation, she need to check with GM/MD if can allow me to go on leave.

    (7) Wed 16 May her secretary called me and said that VPs and MD want to see me at 4:00pm in Board Room. That was when I kenna firing, say my work not up to mark, not delivering etc.

    And . . . . . . the worse part of it? She's supposed to be a pious Christian . . pray before meal, pray before meeting with devotion etc. Wah Lao - damn hypocrite man.

  2. #62

    Default Re: Annual Leave During Probation

    Well, I expected this coming. I suggest that you find a job that allows you more free time to take care of your wife like freelance or hourly type. Night shifts are another option.

  3. #63

    Default Re: Annual Leave During Probation

    Whether or not she is Christian, Muslim, Hindu etc etc and whether pious or not doesnt matter in this case. In my opinon u are taking it personally as you feel attacked. And you are taking it up with her religion. Frankly from my point of view as an employer, I wont really tolerate your leaves. You have joined the company for less than 3 months and you take a whole spate of leaves. Whether valid or not or you are pro family or not. I employ you to work not take leave and then have to cover for you.

    Put yourself in the company's shoes, you employ this guy and then in less than 3 months he or she takes leaves for this and that. And u end up having to cover for the person. As someone said, perhaps you should do freelance so you can take time off anytime for your wife. No point ranting here cos frankly your leave taking doesnt look good for any employer.

    And if u want to talk about compassion then what about compassion for the poor fellows that have to cover for you. The losses made by paying a guy that is half the time not at work. Which then eats into company overheads and might cause a guy to be unemployable cos company cannot afford to employ another?

    Think about it.

    T

  4. #64

    Default Re: Annual Leave During Probation

    Quote Originally Posted by eyes View Post
    Well, I expected this coming. I suggest that you find a job that allows you more free time to take care of your wife like freelance or hourly type. Night shifts are another option.
    Yeah. I hope her condition is only temporary.

  5. #65

    Default Re: Annual Leave During Probation

    Quote Originally Posted by centuryegg View Post
    Whether or not she is Christian, Muslim, Hindu etc etc and whether pious or not doesnt matter in this case. In my opinon u are taking it personally as you feel attacked. And you are taking it up with her religion. Frankly from my point of view as an employer, I wont really tolerate your leaves. You have joined the company for less than 3 months and you take a whole spate of leaves. Whether valid or not or you are pro family or not. I employ you to work not take leave and then have to cover for you.

    Put yourself in the company's shoes, you employ this guy and then in less than 3 months he or she takes leaves for this and that. And u end up having to cover for the person. As someone said, perhaps you should do freelance so you can take time off anytime for your wife. No point ranting here cos frankly your leave taking doesnt look good for any employer.

    And if u want to talk about compassion then what about compassion for the poor fellows that have to cover for you. The losses made by paying a guy that is half the time not at work. Which then eats into company overheads and might cause a guy to be unemployable cos company cannot afford to employ another?

    Think about it.

    T

    Thank you - noted.

  6. #66

    Default Re: Annual Leave During Probation

    In this case, the person takes leave 'cos he is worried and wants to take care of his wife. By not allowing him to go on leave, do you think he has the mood to work? By understanding the Maslow's hierarchy of needs, you will see that Safety Needs must come first before he wants to have Love and Belonging, Self-Esteem and Self-Actualization to perform at work. I am sure once any family-related problems are resolved, the person will have the focus on work.
    Last edited by pixelArtwork; 20th May 2007 at 02:49 PM.

  7. #67

    Default Re: Annual Leave During Probation

    Quote Originally Posted by pixelArtwork View Post
    In this case, the person takes leave 'cos he is worried and wants to take care of his wife. By not allowing him to go on leave, do you think he has the mood to work? By understanding the Maslow's hierarchy of needs, you will see that Safety Needs must come first before he wants to have Love and Belonging, Self-Esteem and Self-Actualization to perform at work. I am sure once any family-related problems are resolved, the person will have the focus on work.
    Mmmmm well put it this way, I employ someone to be productive. If his family problems conflict with his work, either he solves it outside of work or he find another job. Office is not a charity organisation. You work and in return we pay you, the pay that u need for survival. Theories and all aside. I really dont need an employee that is half the time not around due to "personal problems".

    I have told quite a few ex employees and interns to go solve their problems and not bring it into the office. That is called professionalism. By bringing your problems to the workplace, you are bringing your problems and burdening the rest of your team.

    As mentioned before the TS should find an job that allows him to look after his wife without taking leave.

  8. #68

    Default Re: Annual Leave During Probation

    Quote Originally Posted by centuryegg View Post
    Mmmmm well put it this way, I employ someone to be productive. If his family problems conflict with his work, either he solves it outside of work or he find another job. Office is not a charity organisation. You work and in return we pay you, the pay that u need for survival. Theories and all aside. I really dont need an employee that is half the time not around due to "personal problems".

    I have told quite a few ex employees and interns to go solve their problems and not bring it into the office. That is called professionalism. By bringing your problems to the workplace, you are bringing your problems and burdening the rest of your team.

    As mentioned before the TS should find an job that allows him to look after his wife without taking leave.
    How would you feel if your wife were to suddenly be hospitalised?

  9. #69

    Default Re: Annual Leave During Probation

    Quote Originally Posted by Robert View Post
    How would you feel if your wife were to suddenly be hospitalised?

    Well my friend, it is called professionalism. Did you even talk to your superior about your problem? Besides complaining about her religion and keep insisting that she is nagging on you becoz you "exposed" her. If it was me? I would talk to my boss and if the company cannot accept it, I would quit. Rather than wait to be sacked and to get a blemish on my resume.

    I have suppliers that cannot deliver. Am I supposed to go ask them.... "Oh.... you have problem? I understand.... nevermind.... take your time okay....?" No I dont... I tell them... Remember the terms of contract.

  10. #70

    Default Re: Annual Leave During Probation

    Quote Originally Posted by centuryegg View Post
    Well my friend, it is called professionalism. Did you even talk to your superior about your problem? Besides complaining about her religion and keep insisting that she is nagging on you becoz you "exposed" her. If it was me? I would talk to my boss and if the company cannot accept it, I would quit. Rather than wait to be sacked and to get a blemish on my resume.

    I have suppliers that cannot deliver. Am I supposed to go ask them.... "Oh.... you have problem? I understand.... nevermind.... take your time okay....?" No I dont... I tell them... Remember the terms of contract.
    I did explain it to her. I've been working long enough to know what professionalism entails.

  11. #71

    Default Re: Annual Leave During Probation

    Aren't the terms of the contract very clear? He has got a couple of days leave. Use them or try no pay leave. I don't think the days taken are excessive. The 3 days for tokyo is a bit suspect but i would have allowed it anyway.

    Really though, i think picking on the prayer before food and all that to be a bit childish. It takes much more than that to be pious. Unless of course she presents herself as a saint. In which case bombs away.

    You're taking the right course in looking for a new placement. She has taken the first steps to making the environment unfriendly so it will eventually be a you or she goes kind of situation.

  12. #72

    Default Re: Annual Leave During Probation

    Anyway Robert, I have nothing against you. I am just offering you the alternative view that your superior might have of you. In this case, you have gotten on the wrong foot, just endure, watch your back and look for a new job while you endure in the present one. Either one will to go, it is you or her.

  13. #73

    Default Re: Annual Leave During Probation

    Quote Originally Posted by Robert View Post
    Several people have asked - so to clarify:

    (1) Joined company 2 Jan 2007

    (2) In March 2007, I had to take 3 days leave to accompany wife to Tokyo for her business trip. I had to go because wife needed daily injection in the mornings.

    (3) In April 2007, I took 1 day leave to accompany wife to NUH for a Day Surgery. After that wife was on MC for 2.5 weeks, rest in bed.

    (4) In April 2007, I took 0.5 day leave to accompany wife to NUH to remove stitches and checkup.

    (5) In April 2007 I took 0.5 day leave again to take wife to NUH for checkup.

    (6) Monday 14 May I applied leave to accompany wife to NUH on Monday 28 May 07 (2 weeks notice). Then she called me and say that why I make appointment without applying for leave first? Huh? Then she said since I was on probation, she need to check with GM/MD if can allow me to go on leave.

    (7) Wed 16 May her secretary called me and said that VPs and MD want to see me at 4:00pm in Board Room. That was when I kenna firing, say my work not up to mark, not delivering etc.

    And . . . . . . the worse part of it? She's supposed to be a pious Christian . . pray before meal, pray before meeting with devotion etc. Wah Lao - damn hypocrite man.
    You know what, you goofed. Reading your leave history, knowing the political enviroment you were under, and in particular having to deal with an a**h*** boss, you goofed BIG time.

    I have no idea what kind of illness your wife is having, but she must also take care for herself. Having you just to accompany her to Japan so that you can give her an injection each morning ... I feel it's extremely excessive. You took those 3 days off, you used up 30 days worth of goodwill. Why can't your wife give herself the injection? If she is in such dire health condition, what on earth is she doing going on a business trip?

    Accompanying your wife to surgery is definatlely defendable. However, if it's only a day surgery, even if she gets 2 2.5 weeks MC, day surgery means it's not THAT serious or life threatenning. So, why did you have to accompany her to Japan?

    The two half days you accompany her for check up and removal of stiches, well, could she not do it herself? Again you wasted many days of good will here.

    I am not saying your boss and company is clean as a boy scout. In fact I feel your boss might be qualified for the 18 level of hell, but you must also watch your for your own back.
    deadpoet
    my portfolio

  14. #74
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    Default Re: Annual Leave During Probation

    your case reminds me of my friend who was retrenched from a public listed company just because he was away for 2 weeks in-camp, the mgmt allowed him to go...everything was ok until when he was away, his colleagues made his work a big mess... and put the blame on him in front of the mgmt... so when he came back.. damage was greatly done to his portfolio... he was asked to resign.


  15. #75

    Default Re: Annual Leave During Probation

    Quote Originally Posted by Deadpoet View Post
    You know what, you goofed. Reading your leave history, knowing the political enviroment you were under, and in particular having to deal with an a**h*** boss, you goofed BIG time.

    I have no idea what kind of illness your wife is having, but she must also take care for herself. Having you just to accompany her to Japan so that you can give her an injection each morning ... I feel it's extremely excessive. You took those 3 days off, you used up 30 days worth of goodwill. Why can't your wife give herself the injection? If she is in such dire health condition, what on earth is she doing going on a business trip?

    Accompanying your wife to surgery is definatlely defendable. However, if it's only a day surgery, even if she gets 2 2.5 weeks MC, day surgery means it's not THAT serious or life threatenning. So, why did you have to accompany her to Japan?

    The two half days you accompany her for check up and removal of stiches, well, could she not do it herself? Again you wasted many days of good will here.

    I am not saying your boss and company is clean as a boy scout. In fact I feel your boss might be qualified for the 18 level of hell, but you must also watch your for your own back.
    When you have a wife, then you'll understand.

    When I was single, I never understood the hoo-hah - but when I was married, I promised to take care of her, through thick and thin. I'd like to see you give yourself an injection.

    I had to accompany her back to remove the stitches because she could not walk without support. You think I'd leave my wife by the side of the road trying to get a cab?

    For your information, these are not run-of-the-mill sickness - so I'd appreciate it if you tone down your replies and showed some compassion.

    BTW, are you married?
    Last edited by Robert; 21st May 2007 at 07:39 PM.

  16. #76

    Default Re: Annual Leave During Probation

    Quote Originally Posted by centuryegg View Post
    Anyway Robert, I have nothing against you. I am just offering you the alternative view that your superior might have of you. In this case, you have gotten on the wrong foot, just endure, watch your back and look for a new job while you endure in the present one. Either one will to go, it is you or her.
    I understand - unfortunately not everyone is as objective in their replies as you (see 'DEADPOET')

  17. #77

    Default Re: Annual Leave During Probation

    Quote Originally Posted by Robert View Post
    When you have a wife, then you'll understand.

    When I was single, I never understood the hoo-hah - but when I was married, I promised to take care of her, through thick and thin. I'd like to see you give yourself an injection.

    I had to accompany her back to remove the stitches because she could not walk without support. You think I'd leave my wife by the side of the road trying to get a cab?

    For your information, these are not run-of-the-mill sickness - so I'd appreciate it if you tone down your replies and showed some compassion.

    BTW, are you married?
    Robert, I totaly see your point. However, sometimes, not everything will go your way. It's your decision. You can spend your goodwill however you want. And you must bare the consequence.

    If you feel offended, well, that is not the intention.

    Hope your wife is recovering swiftly.
    deadpoet
    my portfolio

  18. #78

    Default Re: Annual Leave During Probation

    Quote Originally Posted by Deadpoet View Post
    Robert, I totaly see your point. However, sometimes, not everything will go your way. It's your decision. You can spend your goodwill however you want. And you must bare the consequence.

    If you feel offended, well, that is not the intention.

    Hope your wife is recovering swiftly.
    Thanks for the explanation - no hard feelings.

    We never in our minds, expected this to come along - and she's due for another operation soon. We hope it's not necessary cos we'd like to have kids.

  19. #79

    Default Re: Annual Leave During Probation

    Cheer Up! And be hopeful.

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