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Thread: 三國

  1. #41
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    Default Re: 三國

    Quote Originally Posted by Cheesecake View Post
    i think cao cao is a great ruler more capable than liu bei.

    and i love romance of the 3 kingdom strategy game series.
    historically i think 曹操 was a political reformist, 孙策 was a revolutionist, and 刘备 a more complicated character ... something like a conservative opportunist (sounds oxymoronic, i know ) well 刘备 based his aggressive campaign on 正统 (whether that was a steadfast belief in rites or just trying to gain political leverage, hard to tell)

  2. #42
    Senior Member Cheesecake's Avatar
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    Default Re: 三國

    Quote Originally Posted by eikin View Post
    historically i think 曹操 was a political reformist, 孙策 was a revolutionist, and 刘备 a more complicated character ... something like a conservative opportunist (sounds oxymoronic, i know ) well 刘备 based his aggressive campaign on 正统 (whether that was a steadfast belief in rites or just trying to gain political leverage, hard to tell)
    sun che died at a young age leh. sun quan la.

    liu bei, overhyped.
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  3. #43
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    Default Re: 三國

    Quote Originally Posted by Cheesecake View Post
    sun che died at a young age leh. sun quan la.

    liu bei, overhyped.
    孙策 established 吴, 孙权 is more a politician than a revolutionist

  4. #44
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    Default Re: 三國

    Quote Originally Posted by eikin View Post
    孙策 established 吴, 孙权 is more a politician than a revolutionist
    he din't really establish Wu la. he died at such a tender age and his pretty wife widowed at such a young age! Zhou Yu helped Sun Quan and shaped Wu into a formidable force.

    am i wrong? long time no read the story.


    still remember the china made serial drama.

    Zhang Fei: " Da Ge!!!"
    Liu Bei: "San Di!!!!"

    and they hug each other and the camera took a top view and spin around. damn classic shot.
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  5. #45
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    Default Re: 三國

    Quote Originally Posted by Cheesecake View Post
    he din't really establish Wu la. he died at such a tender age and his pretty wife widowed at such a young age! Zhou Yu helped Sun Quan and shaped Wu into a formidable force.

    am i wrong? long time no read the story.


    still remember the china made serial drama.

    Zhang Fei: " Da Ge!!!"
    Liu Bei: "San Di!!!!"

    and they hug each other and the camera took a top view and spin around. damn classic shot.
    actually 周瑜 was buddy of 孙策, 孙策 established the foundation of what is to become 吴, his death was attributed to his over-confidence

    some interesting writings from wiki http://zh.wikipedia.org/wiki/%E5%AD%99%E7%AD%96

    《三国志》记载曹操的谋士郭嘉曾说过:“策新并江东,所诛皆英豪雄杰,能得人死力者也。然策轻而无备,虽有 百万之众,无异于独行中原也。若刺客伏起,一人之敌耳。以吾观之,必死于匹夫之手”。后果然于200年4月 ,在外出狩猎时被旧仇許貢的部下行刺而死。孫權稱帝後,追謚為“長沙桓王”。孫策死前,召孫權來病榻前。說 :「任用江東人才,在軍陣之間與天下群雄一爭雌雄,卿不如我﹔但拔擢賢能,使他們各盡心力,保全江東,我不如卿
    Last edited by eikin; 6th May 2007 at 07:10 PM.

  6. #46
    Senior Member Cheesecake's Avatar
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    Default Re: 三國

    Quote Originally Posted by eikin View Post
    actually 周瑜 was buddy of 孙策, 孙策 established the foundation of what is to become 吴, his death was attributed to his over-confidence

    some interesting writings from wiki http://zh.wikipedia.org/wiki/%E5%AD%99%E7%AD%96

    《三国志》记载曹操的谋士郭嘉曾说过:“策新并江东,所诛皆英豪雄杰,能得人死力者也。然策轻而无备,虽有 百万之众,无异于独行中原也。若刺客伏起,一人之敌耳。以吾观之,必死于匹夫之手”。后果然于200年4月 ,在外出狩猎时被旧仇許貢的部下行刺而死。孫權稱帝後,追謚為“長沙桓王”。孫策死前,召孫權來病榻前。說 :「任用江東人才,在軍陣之間與天下群雄一爭雌雄,卿不如我﹔但拔擢賢能,使他們各盡心力,保全江東,我不如卿
    wa seh, the chinese too deep for me liao.
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  7. #47
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    Default Re: 三國

    Quote Originally Posted by eikin View Post
    actually 周瑜 was buddy of 孙策, 孙策 established the foundation of what is to become 吴, his death was attributed to his over-confidence

    some interesting writings from wiki http://zh.wikipedia.org/wiki/%E5%AD%99%E7%AD%96

    《三国志》记载曹操的谋士郭嘉曾说过:“策新并江东,所诛皆英豪雄杰,能得人死力者也。然策轻而无备,虽有 百万之众,无异于独行中原也。若刺客伏起,一人之敌耳。以吾观之,必死于匹夫之手”。后果然于200年4月 ,在外出狩猎时被旧仇許貢的部下行刺而死。孫權稱帝後,追謚為“長沙桓王”。孫策死前,召孫權來病榻前。說 :「任用江東人才,在軍陣之間與天下群雄一爭雌雄,卿不如我﹔但拔擢賢能,使他們各盡心力,保全江東,我不如卿
    something like

    In historical records (San Guo Zhi,) Cao Cao's strategist Guo Jia said ''Sun Ce established Jiang Dong, employs the service of intelligent and brave talents, and make them loyal servants who would die for his cause. Sun Ce is careless despite having many talents around him, and likes to wander around the wilderness alone (for hunting.) Should he meet with assasination, all it takes is 1 man. In my view, he will die in the hands of average man (assassin) '' Guo Jia's prediction came true when Sun Ce was critically injured under the hands of his arch rival Xu Gong's follower (unnamed follower) during April of 200 when on a hunting trip, and subsequently died from the injury. After Sun Quan self-proclaimed as Emperor of Wu, he dedicated a posthumous title of ''King Huan of Changsha'' to his brother Sun Ce. Before Sun Ce died, he summoned Sun Quan before his deathbed, and told him ''In the use of talents, and to compete with the other heroes in military strategies, you're not my equal. In fulfilling the potential of talents and safeguarding the survival of Jiang Dong, I'm not your equal.''
    Last edited by eikin; 6th May 2007 at 07:35 PM.

  8. #48
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    Default Re: 三國

    Quote Originally Posted by eikin View Post
    something like

    In historical records (San Guo Zhi,) Cao Cao's strategist Guo Jia said ''Sun Ce established Jiang Dong, employs the service of intelligent and brave talents, and make them loyal servants who would die for his cause. Sun Ce is careless despite having many talents around him, and likes to wander around the wilderness alone (for hunting.) Should he meet with assasination, all it takes is 1 man. In my view, he will die in the hands of average man (assassin) '' Guo Jia's prediction came true when Sun Ce died under the hands of his arch rival Xu Gong's follower (unnamed follower) during April of 200. After Sun Quan self-proclaimed as Emperor of Wu, he dedicated a posthumous title of ''King Huan of Changsha'' to his brother Sun Ce. Before Sun Ce died, he summoned Sun Quan beside his deathbed, and told him ''In the use of talents, and to compete with the other heroes in military strategies, you're not my equal. In fulfilling the potential of talents and safeguarding the survival of Jiang Dong, I'm not your equal.''
    steady la. their old style of chinese is too chim.
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  9. #49
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    Default Re: 三國

    Quote Originally Posted by eikin View Post
    historically i think 曹操 was a political reformist, 孙策 was a revolutionist, and 刘备 a more complicated character ... something like a conservative opportunist (sounds oxymoronic, i know ) well 刘备 based his aggressive campaign on 正统 (whether that was a steadfast belief in rites or just trying to gain political leverage, hard to tell)
    i believe 刘备 is more of belief in rites and 以德復人 rather then trying to gain political leverage...

    曹操 got any right hand men? Like 刘备 gt 关羽, 張飛, 諸葛亮 and 孫策 got 周瑜and 張昭....

  10. #50
    Senior Member melvin's Avatar
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    Default Re: 三國

    Quote Originally Posted by eikin View Post
    actually 周瑜 was buddy of 孙策, 孙策 established the foundation of what is to become 吴, his death was attributed to his over-confidence

    some interesting writings from wiki http://zh.wikipedia.org/wiki/%E5%AD%99%E7%AD%96

    《三国志》记载曹操的谋士郭嘉曾说过:“策新并江东,所诛皆英豪雄杰,能得人死力者也。然策轻而无备,虽有 百万之众,无异于独行中原也。若刺客伏起,一人之敌耳。以吾观之,必死于匹夫之手”。后果然于200年4月 ,在外出狩猎时被旧仇許貢的部下行刺而死。孫權稱帝後,追謚為“長沙桓王”。孫策死前,召孫權來病榻前。說 :「任用江東人才,在軍陣之間與天下群雄一爭雌雄,卿不如我﹔但拔擢賢能,使他們各盡心力,保全江東,我不如卿
    郭嘉 is he the one who left 刘备 and join 孙策, the ask 刘备 to look for 诸葛亮?

  11. #51
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    Default Re: 三國

    Quote Originally Posted by melvin View Post
    i believe 刘备 is more of belief in rites and 以德復人 rather then trying to gain political leverage...

    曹操 got any right hand men? Like 刘备 gt 关羽, 張飛, 諸葛亮 and 孫策 got 周瑜and 張昭....
    you'll never know

    hmmm, i thought you read the book? on top of countless brave warriors 曹操 was surrounded by many talented strategists, examples like 荀彧, 荀攸, 程昱, 戲志才, 郭嘉, 司馬懿 ... ...

  12. #52
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    Default Re: 三國

    Quote Originally Posted by melvin View Post
    郭嘉 is he the one who left 刘备 and join 孙策, the ask 刘备 to look for 诸葛亮?
    that was 徐庶, who left 刘备 and joined 曹操, and recommended 诸葛亮

    郭嘉 had a poor constitution and died young

  13. #53
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    Default Re: 三國

    Quote Originally Posted by eikin View Post
    that was 徐庶, who left 刘备 and joined 曹操, and recommended 诸葛亮

    郭嘉 had a poor constitution and died young


    After Battle of Red Cliff, Cao Cao commented, If 奉孝 (Guo Jia's style name) were alive, I would not be in this state."
    莫问前程有愧,只求今生无悔. Time pasts, Places changed, Beauty faded, what is left are Photos of Memories…

  14. #54
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    Default Re: 三國

    Quote Originally Posted by eikin View Post
    you'll never know

    hmmm, i thought you read the book? on top of countless brave warriors 曹操 was surrounded by many talented strategists, examples like 荀彧, 荀攸, 程昱, 戲志才, 郭嘉, 司馬懿 ... ...
    Err... read partial ....
    Personally i think it is the return of 司馬懿 that makes 魏 stronger...... but there is one talent he missed, overlook or should i say he look down on 張松, who later causes 曹操 to burn his own book!

  15. #55

    Default Re: 三國

    I feel that it was guanyu who causes the downfall of 蜀. He lost 荆州 and in trying to revenge his brother's death, liu bei suffered devastating lost.

  16. #56
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    Default Re: 三國

    There was a old serial on Zhuge Liang, and the start it always narrate this

    功盖三分国,名成八阵图;
    江流石不转,遗恨失吞吴

    Anyone still remembers?

  17. #57
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    Default Re: 三國

    Quote Originally Posted by Francis247 View Post


    After Battle of Red Cliff, Cao Cao commented, If 奉孝 (Guo Jia's style name) were alive, I would not be in this state."
    yah, words of 曹操 were quite drama mama ...

    「郭奉孝在,不使孤至此。」
    「哀哉奉孝!痛哉奉孝!惜哉奉孝!」


  18. #58
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    Default Re: 三國

    Quote Originally Posted by theonlyone View Post
    I feel that it was guanyu who causes the downfall of 蜀. He lost 荆州 and in trying to revenge his brother's death, liu bei suffered devastating lost.
    蜀 fell because of 阿斗 and his evil eunuch 黃皓

    if 姜维 was given unconditional support for the northern campaigns like how 刘备 trusted 诸葛亮, history might have been different. although 吴 took 荆州 , like what 孙策 said about 孙权, 孙权 was not capable as a military strategist, 孙权 will not risk 江东 and start a campaign against 蜀 as it'll be too much beyond his comfort zone.
    Last edited by eikin; 7th May 2007 at 04:42 PM.

  19. #59
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    Default Re: 三國

    Quote Originally Posted by Jaycelim View Post
    There was a old serial on Zhuge Liang, and the start it always narrate this

    功盖三分国,名成八阵图;
    江流石不转,遗恨失吞吴

    Anyone still remembers?
    got ah? haven't watched before

  20. #60

    Default Re: 三國

    Quote Originally Posted by Jaycelim View Post
    There was a old serial on Zhuge Liang, and the start it always narrate this

    功盖三分国,名成八阵图;
    江流石不转,遗恨失吞吴

    Anyone still remembers?
    Ya, but that's a funny serial coz in the serial Zhuge Liang know kongfu and can fight with ppl

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