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Thread: 三國

  1. #21
    Senior Member melvin's Avatar
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    Default Re: 三國

    Quote Originally Posted by smurfman View Post
    罗贯中 read, collected acticles abt 3 kingdoms, and also read abt 三国志, and he make it like a story.

    The real 三国志, is boring, and alot of deep mandrain in it, thus causing alot of ppl failing to read it. It is done by a official, that lives and serve in wei after shu die, that he wrote it b4 most officials involve in the early part die. He interviewed the servant of zhuge liang. And the servant says when liang is alive, nothing great abt him, after he dies, then he find no one is his match.

    To be honest, alot of officials never appear in 罗贯中 book.

    The real book comprise of mostly the 3 kingdoms officials, wei, shu and wu officials, so some officials appear abit only. The successful abt this real book is that what ever appear in any official writeup, will never appear in another part, thus making other historian at that time unable to compare.

    Thus 罗贯中 inorder to make it fascinating, links alot of parts together, to make it a story line w/o broken link. But as he did so, he come up with alot of stories.

    Fake are zhuo cang, never he was there, zhuge liang 空城计, 空城计 was used by zhao yun actually, and alot more.
    Thanks! More more....pls.... is the part about 華佗 is he in the true in the real version? cos to me 華佗 exist long before the 三國Era!

  2. #22
    Senior Member melvin's Avatar
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    Default Re: 三國

    Quote Originally Posted by smurfman View Post
    罗贯中 make ppl read with interest, and his book make it the top seller.

    Alot ppl read and mistook that what he wrote is correct, but fail to realised 演义 was a story.
    All i know is that 罗贯中 wrote 演義 base mostly on Pro 劉 Anti 曹.

  3. #23
    Senior Member Cheesecake's Avatar
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    Default Re: 三國

    Quote Originally Posted by melvin View Post
    All i know is that 罗贯中 wrote 演義 base mostly on Pro 劉 Anti 曹.
    i think cao cao is a great ruler more capable than liu bei.

    and i love romance of the 3 kingdom strategy game series.
    You'll Never Walk Alone! - i have the best job in the world!

  4. #24

    Default Re: 三國

    Diao Chan is not in any of the historical documents. She is probably fictional, but we may never know the truth.

    Hua Tuo lived in the Eastern Han and Three Kingdoms era and was really killed because of Cao Cao in history.

  5. #25

    Default Re: 三國

    Quote Originally Posted by Cheesecake View Post
    i think cao cao is a great ruler more capable than liu bei.
    Much much more capable. But he didn't know how to wayang, unlike Liu Bei.

  6. #26
    Senior Member melvin's Avatar
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    Default Re: 三國

    Quote Originally Posted by Cheesecake View Post
    i think cao cao is a great ruler more capable than liu bei.

    and i love romance of the 3 kingdom strategy game series.
    Both are great rulers it is just that they both have different types of governing, one makes own decision while the other seeks advice n opinons thenn make decision!

    I think the fall of 劉備 是 因 借 荊州而不 還 which eventually lead to 东吴与曹魏和好 and failure to defend 荊州.

    Is this in the real version?

  7. #27
    Senior Member Virgo's Avatar
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    Default Re: 三國

    and yes, who has got the full version of the 三国志 comics? I bought until a certain episode and can't get them from the market any more. Where can I find the full episodes?

  8. #28

    Default Re: 三國

    Quote Originally Posted by melvin View Post
    All i know is that 罗贯中 wrote 演義 base mostly on Pro 劉 Anti 曹.
    If without bad guy, then how to write the story??? so cao cao become bad guy loh.

  9. #29

    Default Re: 三國

    Quote Originally Posted by melvin View Post
    Both are great rulers it is just that they both have different types of governing, one makes own decision while the other seeks advice n opinons thenn make decision!

    I think the fall of 劉備 是 因 借 荊州而不 還 which eventually lead to 东吴与曹魏和好 and failure to defend 荊州.

    Is this in the real version?
    荊州 is very important interms of strategic, actually the fall of shu is becos of several reasons. Liu bei did return southern part of 荊州 to sun quan.

    The fall of 荊州 can only blame guan yu.

  10. #30

    Default Re: 三國

    Quote Originally Posted by Convoy View Post
    Diao Chan is not in any of the historical documents. She is probably fictional, but we may never know the truth.

    Hua Tuo lived in the Eastern Han and Three Kingdoms era and was really killed because of Cao Cao in history.
    Diao Chan really exist.

  11. #31
    Senior Member melvin's Avatar
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    Default Re: 三國

    Quote Originally Posted by smurfman View Post
    荊州 is very important interms of strategic, actually the fall of shu is becos of several reasons. Liu bei did return southern part of 荊州 to sun quan.

    The fall of 荊州 can only blame guan yu.
    關羽? I tot is 劉備 for sending who is that guy who is not capable of defending 荊州 Thus fall of 署.

  12. #32

    Default Re: 三國

    Quote Originally Posted by melvin View Post
    關羽? I tot is 劉備 for sending who is that guy who is not capable of defending 荊州 Thus fall of 署.
    關羽 is very capable to defend 荊州, but he was just to proud, thinking he is the best liao. By capturing yu jing of wei, beheaded pang de of wei, even cao cao was thinking of moving further away to avoid guan yu.

    But, sun quan knowing that guan yu was away, still leaving troops behind, did a swop of generals, getting lu xun to replace lu meng. Lu xun was young then, so guan yu fails to respect him, and leaving little army behind, full force attack on xiang yang. Thus, Lu Xun invaded.

    Guan Yu are very good, but some historians are getting on some evidence to show that guan yu is not that good in martial arts.

    Actually, after the fall of Yuan Shao, guan yu did ask cao cao permission to get Yuan Shao son wife to be his wife, but was rejected. What historian's assume is that Guan Yu believe hero must have beautiful wife.

    I dunno, just read loh.

  13. #33
    Senior Member melvin's Avatar
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    Default Re: 三國

    Quote Originally Posted by smurfman View Post
    關羽 is very capable to defend 荊州, but he was just to proud, thinking he is the best liao. By capturing yu jing of wei, beheaded pang de of wei, even cao cao was thinking of moving further away to avoid guan yu.

    But, sun quan knowing that guan yu was away, still leaving troops behind, did a swop of generals, getting lu xun to replace lu meng. Lu xun was young then, so guan yu fails to respect him, and leaving little army behind, full force attack on xiang yang. Thus, Lu Xun invaded.

    Guan Yu are very good, but some historians are getting on some evidence to show that guan yu is not that good in martial arts.

    Actually, after the fall of Yuan Shao, guan yu did ask cao cao permission to get Yuan Shao son wife to be his wife, but was rejected. What historian's assume is that Guan Yu believe hero must have beautiful wife.

    I dunno, just read loh.
    I tot 關羽 is alredy married and had a family at that time when the fall of 荊州 as not long after the fall of 荊州 is his death?

  14. #34

    Default Re: 三國

    Quote Originally Posted by melvin View Post
    I tot 關羽 is alredy married and had a family at that time when the fall of 荊州 as not long after the fall of 荊州 is his death?
    Nope, this incident happens b4 荊州, its after yuan shao (袁绍)die or his sons dies, cant remember already, its a small incident.

    Three kingdom is a success after romance was out, credit must be given to 罗贯中. His romance of the three kingdom no dough erases off must history, distorted alot of true facts, but he sure let alot of ppl enjoy it as a novel. There was a time in Qing, when story telling was a must and entertaining programme after dinner, alot of ppl gather to listen to story teller stores, and three kingdom was always been read. Cos its long enough mah. Then from what historians put it, when Liu Bei or Zhuge Liang was defeated or down, folks will be sad, when Cao Cao was defeated, folks claps hands, so imagine how this Romance of three kingdom changed the views of so many ppl.

    Cao Cao was make a villian, to make ppl happy.

  15. #35

    Default Re: 三國

    During Three Kingdoms, there was no peace, wars, rebels coming and go, the population was drastically down to 8 millions in the whole country when wars was the greastest at that time, it slowly went up to 20 millions when it is most stable, shd be when shu, wei and wu was formed.

    What i recall reading somewhere is also the era of three kingdoms is also when the most heros and intelligence ppl are born.

  16. #36
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    Default Re: 三國

    Quote Originally Posted by melvin View Post
    貂蟬 is real lah... from what i know she only appears in 演義 version, in the real version it is recorded in 《三國志.呂布傳》提及「卓常使布守中閣,布與卓侍婢私通,恐事發覺,心不自安」,侍婢並未明 示貂蟬之名。
    appear in some records that 貂蟬 is a status name for palace maids, and 罗贯中 kind of used it conveniently as a character name. whether 貂蟬 is really that beautiful is hard to say, nobody knows the likings of 呂布 and 董卓

  17. #37
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    Default Re: 三國

    Quote Originally Posted by melvin View Post
    Thanks! More more....pls.... is the part about 華佗 is he in the true in the real version? cos to me 華佗 exist long before the 三國Era!
    some records says that 华佗 was indeed from the era, but he was executed by 曹操 2 years before the 刮骨疗伤 story, so the physician who treated 关羽 was not 华佗

  18. #38
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    Default Re: 三國

    Quote Originally Posted by smurfman View Post
    What i recall reading somewhere is also the era of three kingdoms is also when the most heros and intelligence ppl are born.
    乱世出英雄

    anyway 战国 era also saw many records of distinguished characters, the impression that 三国 era had the most is probably due to extensive records and popularisation of 三国演义

    i believe times like 五代十国 also had alot of heroes and strategists, just that not popularised

  19. #39

    Default Re: 三國

    Quote Originally Posted by smurfman View Post
    Diao Chan really exist.
    No. There is no recorded history on the person Diao Chan. There was an unnamed maid involved in a passing love rivalry between Dong Zhuo and Lu Bu. She could be Ruhua for all we know.

  20. #40

    Default Re: 三國

    Quote Originally Posted by eikin View Post
    some records says that 华佗 was indeed from the era, but he was executed by 曹操 2 years before the 刮骨疗伤 story, so the physician who treated 关羽 was not 华佗
    Yep. Hua Tuo was supposed to be dead by then. Moreover, the entire 刮骨疗伤 was probably exaggerated by Luo Guanzhong.

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