View Poll Results: How Far Can You Accept Digital Manipulation Before You Consider It Cheating??

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  • Adjusting Levels, Curves, Contrast, etc

    123 80.39%
  • Adjusting colour saturation

    110 71.90%
  • Digitally dodging/burning in selected areas

    78 50.98%
  • Adding elements to the picture (e.g. moon)

    40 26.14%
  • Removing elements from the picture (e.g. distrating lampposts, wires)

    67 43.79%
  • Creating out-of-the-world pics that bear no resemblance to real life (e.g. person holding a ball of fire)

    42 27.45%
  • Digitally "slimming down" your subject

    41 26.80%
  • Digitally Replacing/changing backgrounds (putting yourself in front of the Eiffel Tower digitally)

    36 23.53%
  • No digital manipulation is acceptable - it's cheating

    10 6.54%
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Thread: How Far Can You Accept Digital Manipulation

  1. #21
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    Default Re: How Far Can You Accept Digital Manipulation

    manipulation? the image that comes out of any camera/film is not 'real' or a 'truth' anyway, at best just a representation of something real ... eventually all depends on how one wants things to be seen ... the most beautiful/meaningful images are constructed in the mind.

  2. #22
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    Default Re: How Far Can You Accept Digital Manipulation

    I think cheating depends on the intention and not on the manupulation itself. I can accept anything as long as it works. Every women wants to look pretty in her photo, just as she will wear makeup, fake eyelashes, fake nails, fake hair, contact lenses, pushup bra, etc...

  3. #23
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    Default Re: How Far Can You Accept Digital Manipulation

    Quote Originally Posted by Digipix
    Wow! I ticked every single box except cheating...
    Same here. And I do it for a living

  4. #24
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    Default Re: How Far Can You Accept Digital Manipulation

    People who think digital manipulation is cheating is just miss inform. Manipulation in image happen way in when the cave man learn how to draw. A photographic proof in a court of law even shot on film must go through a photographic expect to confirm it is not manipulated. Digital might made it easier to manipulate an image throught the computer. It doesn't mean it can not be done or wasn't done on film. Just the process might be different and harder to master but it still manipulation. I have seen a master retoucher that do wonders works on film, removing street lamp or airbushing away skin flaws in portrait way before we ever hear of this digital era. Or photographer recopy a shot with another to create new ones without even using a computer.

    Manipulation in image is just how the way I present my image to others. It is created by me to show you what I want you to see, to feel and to think of my art. It also could be said that I am trying to be creative of what I want in my art. But if the image is present to some one or the public about some thing that suppose to be truth, then you have a moral duty not to lie with the image. So it is a moral issue here to present the image as close as possible to the truth in these cases. Ironic thing is, something they need to manipulate the image so it can tell the truth! See CSI you will know what I mean.

    It like some people like nikon cameras and other like canon. People who like to keep simple and straight by not doing manipulation to their image are true to their "art", as well as people who does. We are not betraying our "art" or in this case "cheating". Art like photography is one's expression of the image he wish to share with others. Just like in writing there friction, non friction, news article, things people made up and things that have happen in history.

    In fact the greatest manipulation artise of our this art is none other then Ansel Adam. The great master himself. Some of you will say, he didn't put stuffs in his pictures or manipulate where like the digital guys do. The very fact he a great master photographer, not only he shoot the picture right. He also develop his neg to the way he know he will get the best information from them that normal prcoess might not be it. In fact is the very first manipulation in itself. Then the master will test and test how he could best manipulate the print in the enlargement and printing stages. So in order to show the true image he wish to present that in his head. If you seen his straight print, they are not the master pieces Ansel Adam wish you to see. No not because he a shame of them or any thing like that, they are just test pieces or a path to the real master piece in the final print.

    People tend to forget we have a brain. The camera dun have a brain! No matter how "smart" they become. So the camera are very limted, in term of what we are trying to present with what our eyes see, our brain think and our heart feel. So manipulation to our image of what we create in our cameras and films and sensors and pixels make up to this limitation. My two cents.
    Last edited by singscott; 1st October 2005 at 04:34 AM.

  5. #25

    Default Re: How Far Can You Accept Digital Manipulation

    Well said.

  6. #26

    Default Re: How Far Can You Accept Digital Manipulation

    Well, my opinion is not matter what level of manipulation you have done, you can only call it manipulation, not cheating. It'll only be considered as cheating if it's manipulated but you denied it.

    Most hollywood movies nowsadays are created with tonnes of digital manipulation, but should other movies makers without the equipments and skill claim that the americans are cheating? You will probably say that it's sour grape.. they are simply more technically advanced.

    But then it also does not mean that movies without manipulation will certainly loose out to those hi-tech movies, ultimately it's the content of the movies that matters.. I think it's the same for photography.

    With the possibility of digital manipulation, I think it actually enables the photograhers to pay more attention to the contents of the picture when shooting, rather than spending time to take care of areas that can be easily touch-up by some clicks in ps.

  7. #27
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    Default Re: How Far Can You Accept Digital Manipulation

    i think people should stop calling digital post processing 'digital manipulation' ... the word 'manipulation' carries a heavily negative connotation

  8. #28
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    Default Re: How Far Can You Accept Digital Manipulation

    depends on whether you think you are a photographer or an artist!

  9. #29

    Default Re: How Far Can You Accept Digital Manipulation

    Quote Originally Posted by NMSS_2
    depends on whether you think you are a photographer or an artist!

    i'm both, is there a difference?

  10. #30
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    Default Re: How Far Can You Accept Digital Manipulation

    Quote Originally Posted by Belle&Sebastain
    i'm both, is there a difference?
    depends on whether u are a better photographer or a better artist.

    good photographer requires good skills.
    good PP artist requires good knowledge.

  11. #31
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    Default Re: How Far Can You Accept Digital Manipulation

    It's hard to take sides on an issue like this. In my opinion, it is really up to the viewers themselves to decide if digital manipulation/ editing is really cheating. I find myself having to do at least some post processing on my images to give them more punch. Images that are straight out of the camera occasionally lack that 'omph'.

    Adjusting levels and curves, brightness/ contrast and unsharp mask are just about the only things that I use, although in recent times, I've taken to using the Lens Blur function as well. I would avoid removing or adding things to a photo because that would void the realism of a piece.

    Personally, I feel that a good photographer should be able to capture a great image to start off with, and then be capable of working with the computer to give an image more life/ merit, if that is required. Some viewers closely scrutinize images and are able to tell if it has been manipulated, and they lose faith if they discover that the photo has been heavily edited. We just need to be more careful with the way we edit our work.

    That is why photography is an art, a craft and a science all at the same time.

  12. #32

    Default Re: How Far Can You Accept Digital Manipulation

    Haha, you do realise this thread is pretty old and deadpoet's reply revived it. Heh.

  13. #33

    Default Re: How Far Can You Accept Digital Manipulation

    Adding elements to the picture (e.g. moon)
    Removing elements from the picture (e.g. distrating lampposts, wires)
    Creating out-of-the-world pics that bear no resemblance to real life (e.g. person holding a ball of fire)
    Digitally "slimming down" your subject
    Digitally Replacing/changing backgrounds (putting yourself in front of the Eiffel Tower digitally)
    No digital manipulation is acceptable - it's cheating

    I consider the above 6 points to be over manipulation, that makes the image no longer related to photography. It's more of graphic design. Photography is capturing the image whereas by adding and remove elements it's becoming art

  14. #34

    Default Re: How Far Can You Accept Digital Manipulation

    as long it doesnt like too fake
    a human becoming a doll

  15. #35

    Default Re: How Far Can You Accept Digital Manipulation

    Wow, old thread.

    For me, it'll depend on the context.

    If the photography was meant to be a factual representation of a person or an incident, then the tolerance for manipulation will be low. Otherwise anything goes.

  16. #36

    Default Re: How Far Can You Accept Digital Manipulation

    I also believe in do whatever you want, but dont get caught...haahaa

  17. #37

    Default Re: How Far Can You Accept Digital Manipulation

    Hey bro - wake up and smell the coffee !!! It's 2005 its a new era, most of the world is inheriently still the same, it's just that the clothes have become more colorful and eye catching.

    Photography in its fuller form is always about post shooting work - what is darkroom work, what is air brushing, what is unsharpmask, what is dye transfer sharping and masking in wet darkroom work - not that I can do these but there are many who can and have done so. There can be no limitation save one - effects for effects sake everything else that make the basic capure into an image that conveys your idea is ok. Too many people cling to the fallacy that the photo does not lie - that's a whole large drum of cow sxxxx which seems to be the underlying reason why post shooting work seems to be so unnatural for some. However this is a personal opinion - I am sure you will adopt one that fits with your personal level of comfort.

  18. #38
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    Default Re: How Far Can You Accept Digital Manipulation

    Quote Originally Posted by ellery
    Hey bro - wake up and smell the coffee !!! It's 2005 its a new era, most of the world is inheriently still the same, it's just that the clothes have become more colorful and eye catching.

    Photography in its fuller form is always about post shooting work - what is darkroom work, what is air brushing, what is unsharpmask, what is dye transfer sharping and masking in wet darkroom work - not that I can do these but there are many who can and have done so. There can be no limitation save one - effects for effects sake everything else that make the basic capure into an image that conveys your idea is ok. Too many people cling to the fallacy that the photo does not lie - that's a whole large drum of cow sxxxx which seems to be the underlying reason why post shooting work seems to be so unnatural for some. However this is a personal opinion - I am sure you will adopt one that fits with your personal level of comfort.
    yeah

  19. #39
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    Default Re: How Far Can You Accept Digital Manipulation

    It depends the purpose of post-processing the picture.

    We have accepted special effects in movies, so what is the issue with digital manipulation of an image? I'll accept it with the idea that the photographer (or artist) is trying to tell a story. I can only accept enhancement to a picture if it is used in a news report (i.e. telling the truth!)

    Having said that, I wouldn't manipulate my photos except crop & resize. I see getting a photo right without post processing as a challenge, and I enjoy taking on this challenge.

  20. #40
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    Default Re: How Far Can You Accept Digital Manipulation

    I agreed with many others that it would depends on the purpose / use of the photo.

    - news / journal illustration?
    - advertisement (e.g. slimming product)?
    - celebrity portforlio (e.g Mark Lee)?
    - just for fun?
    :
    :

    Just my view...

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