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Thread: SIA's latest offer in A380-pilot wage dispute rejected.

  1. #1
    Senior Member xtemujin's Avatar
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    Arrow SIA's latest offer in A380-pilot wage dispute rejected.

    SINGAPORE: Singapore Airlines (SIA) has made a last-ditch attempt to settle the wage dispute with its Air Line Pilots' Association - Singapore (ALPA-S).

    SIA has proposed an improved salary range, not only for pilots flying its Airbus 380 super jumbo but also for those who fly its other aircraft.

    But the Pilots' Association has rejected the offer.

    The Pilots' Association, led by Captain P James, met representatives of SIA in the Industrial Arbitration Court on Wednesday, for day three of the hearing.

    And neither side backed down.

    ALPA-S maintained that the pilots flying the A380 fleet, which are expected to arrive in October, should be paid more.

    It argued that a pilot should be paid according to how accountable he is and the level of responsibility he shoulders.

    So the bigger the aircraft - the more passengers it carries - and thus more pay for the pilot.

    In this case, since the A380 is bigger and more expensive - valued at US$295 million - and will carry more passengers, the pilots’ pay should also reflect that, according to ALPA-S.

    The Association also proposed a salary range for the A380 pilots.

    Captains, it said, should be paid between S$13,100 and S$21,615, while First Officers, between S$8,000 and $14,355.

    The Association says there is no established market salary for the A380 planes since SIA will be the first to use them and hasmproposed this range which is derived by extrapolating the current market salary, for the current fleet of B744, B777 and the A345.

    But SIA disagrees.

    The airline, represented by Vice President for Flight Operations, Loh Oun Hean and Captain Robert Ting, argued that its pilots pay package is already very competitive, compared to other airlines.

    It also offered a new pay scale for its pilots, which it refers to as an "improved and final offer" from the company.

    The latest package contains higher starting points for all pilots.

    SIA is proposing for Captains flying the A380, a pay range of between S$9,300 and S$16,500, while First Officers will get between S$5,150 and S$9,250.

    Those currently flying the B744 - SIA's biggest airplanes - will see Captains getting between S$10,000 and S$16,500, while First Officers will receive between S$5,600 and S$9,250.

    Currently, the lowest starting point for a Captain flying the B744 is between S$9,550 and $10,000 while for First Officers, it is between S$5,375 and S$5,600.

    As for Captains flying the B777 and A345, they will get between S$9,300 and S$15,300, while First Officers can earn between S$5,150 and S$8,500.

    Captains flying this fleet currently earn between S$8,850 and S$9,300 as the lowest point of starting pay, while First Officers earn between S$4,925 and S$5,150.

    SIA says that the new salary range is expected to benefit 80 per cent of all pilots, without "cutting a cent of B744 pilots".

    However ALPA-S rejected the offer, saying that the issue is not about how SIA should pay all its pilots, but only those flying the A380.

    The pilots added that SIA is trying to "play them out."

    The hearing was held after SIA and the ALPA-S could not reach an agreement on the salary and benefits of those who fly the A380 super jumbo, after many rounds of negotiations.

    The court has given both sides until 3 May to submit any other issues they wish to highlight, after which it will make known when it will deliver its ruling. - CNA/yy

  2. #2

    Default Re: SIA's latest offer in A380-pilot wage dispute rejected.

    May I remind you that "peanut" is the Standard Unit for SGD 600,000...

  3. #3

    Default Re: SIA's latest offer in A380-pilot wage dispute rejected.

    crap,could i propose photographers should convert all your cameras to Large Format and charge $1000 -$2500 an hour for photography services, Medium Format $500 - $1500, Small Format (35mm) $200- $1000 and Compact cameraman $5- $350 per hour.

    It will benefit 80% of the photographer with this new ruling!

  4. #4

    Default Re: SIA's latest offer in A380-pilot wage dispute rejected.

    Quote Originally Posted by Belle&Sebastain View Post
    crap,could i propose photographers should convert all your cameras to Large Format and charge $1000 -$2500 an hour for photography services, Medium Format $500 - $1500, Small Format (35mm) $200- $1000 and Compact cameraman $5- $350 per hour.

    It will benefit 80% of the photographer with this new ruling!
    Sounds damn good to me.......!

  5. #5

    Default Re: SIA's latest offer in A380-pilot wage dispute rejected.

    CLUBSNAP: Professional Photographers (PP) has made a last-ditch attempt to settle the wage dispute with Freepos (ppl who shoot paid jobs for free).

    PP has proposed an improved salary range, not only for photographers using Large format cameras, but all types of cameras of the trade has to offer.


    The Photographers' Association, led by Tan (Ah Kao), met representatives of Freepos in the Industrial Arbitration Court on Wednesday, for day three of the hearing.

    And neither side backed down.

    PP maintained that the photographers using digital cameras which cost more, should be paided higher.

    It argued that a photographer should be paid according to how accountable he is and the level of responsibility he shoulders.

    So the bigger the camera - the more pixels or grain it carries - and thus more pay for the photographer.

    In this case, since the Digital Cameras is bigger and more expensive - valued at a few thousand dollars - and will carry more pixels, the photographers’ pay should also reflect that, according to PP.

    The Association also proposed a salary range for the photographers.

    Large Format users, it said, should be paid between S$13,100 and S$21,615, while Medium Format, between S$8,000 and $14,355.

    The Association says there is no established market salary for the large cameras since PP will be the first to use them and hasmproposed this range which is derived by extrapolating the current market salary, for the current fleet of Hassys, Lecias, Nikon, Canon etc.

    But Freepos disagrees.

    Customers , represented by Wan Chick, Big and Tau Lup Nie, argued that its photographers pay package is already very competitive, compared to other professions.

    It also offered a new pay scale for its photographers, which it refers to as an "improved and final offer" from the industry.

    The latest package contains lowers starting points for all photographers.

    Freepos is proposing for professional photographers, a pay range of between good value to cheap, while amateurs will get between free and very cheap.

    Those currently shooting the Sinar - CS largest digital format cameras - will see photographers getting between living with shelter , while Hassys will receive between poor to pathetic

    Currently, the lowest starting point for a photographer shooting with a cheapo camera is between shooting for free

    As for Professionals shooting the Canons or Nikons , they will get between able to take a mrt to work


    Freepos says that the new salary range is expected to benefit 80 per cent of all photographers, without hurting the industry. Passion is more important, a moto for the Freepos which engaged in ladder acts in the other thread.

    However PP rejected the offer, saying that the issue is not about how photographers should charge all its clients, but only those shooting for free.

    The professionals added that freepos is trying to "play them out."

    The hearing was held after professionals and the freepos could not reach an agreement on the salary and benefits of those who use digital cameras, after many rounds of negotiations.

    The court has given both sides until 31 June to submit any other issues they wish to highlight, after which it will make known when it will deliver its ruling. - 9Frames

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    Default Re: SIA's latest offer in A380-pilot wage dispute rejected.

    what a spoof

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    Default Re: SIA's latest offer in A380-pilot wage dispute rejected.

    Quote Originally Posted by Belle&Sebastain View Post
    CLUBSNAP: Professional Photographers (PP) has made a last-ditch attempt to settle the wage dispute with Freepos (ppl who shoot paid jobs for free).

    PP has proposed an improved salary range, not only for photographers using Large format cameras, but all types of cameras of the trade has to offer.


    The Photographers' Association, led by Tan (Ah Kao), met representatives of Freepos in the Industrial Arbitration Court on Wednesday, for day three of the hearing.

    And neither side backed down.

    PP maintained that the photographers using digital cameras which cost more, should be paided higher.

    It argued that a photographer should be paid according to how accountable he is and the level of responsibility he shoulders.

    So the bigger the camera - the more pixels or grain it carries - and thus more pay for the photographer.

    In this case, since the Digital Cameras is bigger and more expensive - valued at a few thousand dollars - and will carry more pixels, the photographers’ pay should also reflect that, according to PP.

    The Association also proposed a salary range for the photographers.

    Large Format users, it said, should be paid between S$13,100 and S$21,615, while Medium Format, between S$8,000 and $14,355.

    The Association says there is no established market salary for the large cameras since PP will be the first to use them and hasmproposed this range which is derived by extrapolating the current market salary, for the current fleet of Hassys, Lecias, Nikon, Canon etc.

    But Freepos disagrees.

    Customers , represented by Wan Chick, Big and Tau Lup Nie, argued that its photographers pay package is already very competitive, compared to other professions.

    It also offered a new pay scale for its photographers, which it refers to as an "improved and final offer" from the industry.

    The latest package contains lowers starting points for all photographers.

    Freepos is proposing for professional photographers, a pay range of between good value to cheap, while amateurs will get between free and very cheap.

    Those currently shooting the Sinar - CS largest digital format cameras - will see photographers getting between living with shelter , while Hassys will receive between poor to pathetic

    Currently, the lowest starting point for a photographer shooting with a cheapo camera is between shooting for free

    As for Professionals shooting the Canons or Nikons , they will get between able to take a mrt to work


    Freepos says that the new salary range is expected to benefit 80 per cent of all photographers, without hurting the industry. Passion is more important, a moto for the Freepos which engaged in ladder acts in the other thread.

    However PP rejected the offer, saying that the issue is not about how photographers should charge all its clients, but only those shooting for free.

    The professionals added that freepos is trying to "play them out."

    The hearing was held after professionals and the freepos could not reach an agreement on the salary and benefits of those who use digital cameras, after many rounds of negotiations.

    The court has given both sides until 31 June to submit any other issues they wish to highlight, after which it will make known when it will deliver its ruling. - 9Frames

    Haha, this reminds of the Talking**** website.

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    Default Re: SIA's latest offer in A380-pilot wage dispute rejected.

    A380 oops I meant the Large Format also can't be delivered on time the photogs so gan chiong to ask for pay raise for what?
    “How fortunate for leaders that men do not think.” - Adolf Hitler

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    Default Re: SIA's latest offer in A380-pilot wage dispute rejected.

    Actually I find SIA pilots already being paid a sh*t load of money compared to pilots of other airlines. So what the heck are they complaining for. Alpa-S really has too much free time on their hands to kick up a ruckus every now and then about pay.

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    Default Re: SIA's latest offer in A380-pilot wage dispute rejected.

    actually you can charge more for larger format shots
    in fact you should

    how else can you recover the cost of a digital back?

  11. #11

    Default Re: SIA's latest offer in A380-pilot wage dispute rejected.

    Quote Originally Posted by yanyewkay View Post
    A380 oops I meant the Large Format also can't be delivered on time the photogs so gan chiong to ask for pay raise for what?
    cos you need to learn how to operate the Large format (aka, on the job training), so you know once not easy to handle, better ask for more, if not earn not enough money to take an aeroplane.

  12. #12

    Default Re: SIA's latest offer in A380-pilot wage dispute rejected.

    Quote Originally Posted by Yatlapball View Post
    Actually I find SIA pilots already being paid a sh*t load of money compared to pilots of other airlines. So what the heck are they complaining for. Alpa-S really has too much free time on their hands to kick up a ruckus every now and then about pay.
    and they don't own 100% of the plane, unlike most photographers who need to buy their own equipment in order to work.

    and there is uniforms provided! No wander so many photographers turn up in shorts and slippers to shoot.

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    Default Re: SIA's latest offer in A380-pilot wage dispute rejected.

    They don't own 1% at all :P Unless you count the numerous SIA shares they have in their portfolio.

  14. #14

    Default Re: SIA's latest offer in A380-pilot wage dispute rejected.

    Quote Originally Posted by Yatlapball View Post
    Actually I find SIA pilots already being paid a sh*t load of money compared to pilots of other airlines. So what the heck are they complaining for. Alpa-S really has too much free time on their hands to kick up a ruckus every now and then about pay.
    u bet ... their allowance will probably contribute to another 30% to 50% of their base salary (listed above) and plus 4-6 bonus ... wooah !!! But of course cannot compare to top talents lah
    Last edited by CSlye; 27th April 2007 at 02:39 AM.

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    Default Re: SIA's latest offer in A380-pilot wage dispute rejected.

    seem like everybody is increasing their pay... how come mine still stagnant... time to kachiao my boss liao...
    Logging Off. "You have 2,631 messages stored, of a total 400 allowed." don't PM me.

  16. #16

    Default Re: SIA's latest offer in A380-pilot wage dispute rejected.

    Lets hope ISD and MM don't get involved again.

  17. #17

    Default Re: SIA's latest offer in A380-pilot wage dispute rejected.

    Just curious what the pools of airlines did SIA compare the pay to? to my understanding Cathay, British Airway, Quantas, United starting pay for junior pilots is around USD170,000 PA with retirement package. But don't quote me.

  18. #18

    Default Re: SIA's latest offer in A380-pilot wage dispute rejected.

    How come our minsters pay rise so easily approve and never go court one?!
    Last edited by HydroPoP; 27th April 2007 at 07:39 AM.
    HX300/ EPL6/ EOS60D/ 17-55mmF2.8IS/ 100mmF2.8Macro/ 135mmF2L/ 70-200mmF4LIS/ 300mmF4LIS

  19. #19

    Default Re: SIA's latest offer in A380-pilot wage dispute rejected.

    no more talk about pay!!

    sick and tired of this

    how come no one talk about how much EPL players are earning? they are paid much much higher than anyone..

  20. #20

    Default Re: SIA's latest offer in A380-pilot wage dispute rejected.

    Quote Originally Posted by deckard View Post
    no more talk about pay!!

    sick and tired of this

    how come no one talk about how much EPL players are earning? they are paid much much higher than anyone..
    $ is never enough aint it?

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