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Thread: Serious Thought Required - A question.

  1. #1
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    Default Serious Thought Required - A question.

    Lets hope there would be some serious discussion on this question as I've been mulling over this question over the past few months:

    Come a day, on the assumption that u are at a cross-road of your life. You are being forced to make an EITHER-OR decision based on a single problem. The consequences of going down either path of decision would lead invariably to either a large group of people suffering anguish, pain and torment or to you alone, suffering anguish, pain and torment.

    Caught in a cross-road situation where taking either path would lead to suffering, what is the solution out of it?

    P/S: Hope everyone would help a little, never mind if u're a little incoherent. This question had been bothering me for quite a while though.

  2. #2

    Default Re: Serious Thought Required - A question.

    I think I will choose this "you alone, suffering anguish, pain and torment".

    Sometimes even when you choose this, there will be ppl suffering along with u too.

    ERrr "serious tots" were put in for this question.

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    Default Re: Serious Thought Required - A question.

    Quote Originally Posted by jsbn View Post
    Lets hope there would be some serious discussion on this question as I've been mulling over this question over the past few months:

    Come a day, on the assumption that u are at a cross-road of your life. You are being forced to make an EITHER-OR decision based on a single problem. The consequences of going down either path of decision would lead invariably to either a large group of people suffering anguish, pain and torment or to you alone, suffering anguish, pain and torment.

    Caught in a cross-road situation where taking either path would lead to suffering, what is the solution out of it?

    P/S: Hope everyone would help a little, never mind if u're a little incoherent. This question had been bothering me for quite a while though.
    Hi!

    If i am forced to make a decision (depending on the crossroad i m in) i will make a decision without having to go through any anguish pain n torment. If dat is inevitable i will chose to suffer anguish pain n torment myself n not to involve others if possible. At most i will find 1 or 2 ppl to help me!

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    Default Re: Serious Thought Required - A question.

    For now, it appears the general consensus would be to, "Thy shalt suffer pain and not others."

    Anyone has differing views? Don't worry to air it out, maybe one might have a radically different view of, "Better others suffer than me." but there isn't a single right or wrong answer. Air it! Air it! I wanna hear all sides of the coin rather than a single POV based on majority view or my own narrow perception of thought.

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    Default Re: Serious Thought Required - A question.

    Quote Originally Posted by Nisa View Post
    I think I will choose this "you alone, suffering anguish, pain and torment".

    Sometimes even when you choose this, there will be ppl suffering along with u too.

    ERrr "serious tots" were put in for this question.
    Nisa,

    You have highlighted and stressed a very good point..!

    16 years ago when I left for Canada, I was in such a situation..

    It was a choice between my career and my parents... I chose the former and seek their sincere blessings to move on to doing the things I wanted to..!

    Again, it was not only me that "suffered" as I believed my parents were too..

    Indeed a X-road in life for me jsbn.. but,,,,I made a decision, a very important and heavy stake; that after 16 years on, I am very very happy with .. Well, until then, as a matter of fact no one really knows what could have happened then and now..No one can tell you what, how, when TO DO IT!!

    All the best to you..
    Last edited by szhoe; 23rd April 2007 at 10:39 AM.

  6. #6

    Default Re: Serious Thought Required - A question.

    Quote Originally Posted by jsbn View Post
    Caught in a cross-road situation where taking either path would lead to suffering, what is the solution out of it?
    Simply put - don't think about it.

    Just follow what you think is best for the big picture and never look back, because there is no room for worry or regret in this life. It is like the Road Less Traveled, as cliched and commercialized that poem has become, there are many lessons we can learn from Robert Frost.

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    Default Re: Serious Thought Required - A question.

    DO~ or DO NOT~ there is no TRY.
    “How fortunate for leaders that men do not think.” - Adolf Hitler

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    Default Re: Serious Thought Required - A question.

    Quote Originally Posted by szhoe View Post
    Nisa,

    You have highlighted and stressed a very good point..!

    16 years ago when I left for Canada, I was in such a situation..

    It was a choice between my career and my parents... I chose the former and seek their sincere blessings to move on to doing the things I wanted to..!

    Again, it was not only me that "suffered" as I believed my parents were too..

    Indeed a X-road in life for me jsbn.. but,,,,I made a decision, a very important and heavy stake; that after 16 years on, I am very very happy with .. Well, until then, as a matter of fact no one really knows what could have happened then and now..No one can tell you what, how, when TO DO IT!!

    All the best to you..
    Glad to see that u had made a decision that u had not regretted.

    Despite so many views to this thread, its strange to see such few answers or answers giving rather 'neutral' views and no radical answers of sort (perhaps the unconscious fear of being labelled).

    I'd urge everyone to keep an open mind on this question and not let one's personal moral high ground end up trashing this thread into arguments of, "How can u be so goddamned callous towards other people?" (and the next time u guys meet, see each other face black-black).

    Its just a thread for airing of personal views, no debates/arguments/sparring required and wanted. Whatever views, experiences, thoughts (even impulsive ones), just air it!

    P/S: This is why I love Philosophy. There's no right/wrong answer.

  9. #9

    Default Re: Serious Thought Required - A question.

    Quote Originally Posted by jsbn View Post
    Lets hope there would be some serious discussion on this question as I've been mulling over this question over the past few months:

    Come a day, on the assumption that u are at a cross-road of your life. You are being forced to make an EITHER-OR decision based on a single problem. The consequences of going down either path of decision would lead invariably to either a large group of people suffering anguish, pain and torment or to you alone, suffering anguish, pain and torment.

    Caught in a cross-road situation where taking either path would lead to suffering, what is the solution out of it?

    P/S: Hope everyone would help a little, never mind if u're a little incoherent. This question had been bothering me for quite a while though.
    Suffering is really not the real question here.

    What are the consequences of the suffering?

    Will the suffering of a large group of people lead to a greater good?

    Or even better, will you suffering alone lead to more trauma in the future?

    Most people around here had chosen to suffer alone to spare the group. I think that is noble, but thinking about it, is it the smartest thing to do. It may jolly well be the selfish solution.

    Assuming the group you refer to is family, for example. What is your responsibility to the family? How will the self-sacrificing affect your ability to live up to the responsibility you have to your family?

    I don't have an answer. I am just uncomfortable with so many people knee jerking reacting to being the martyr. That is actually the easy asnwer to give. An in many ways, the selfish answer.
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  10. #10

    Default Re: Serious Thought Required - A question.

    Quote Originally Posted by jsbn View Post
    Its just a thread for airing of personal views, no debates/arguments/sparring required and wanted. Whatever views, experiences, thoughts (even impulsive ones), just air it!
    Doubt you can keep it this way for long, but while it's still relatively ok, let's be ok!

    Let me share with you 2 photographic experiences since this is a photography forums after all.

    There was this day I was at a park shooting. It drizzled a number of times for about 10 seconds each time. So the next time it drizzled I ignored, just opened up my umbrella over my cam and continued shooting. And then it got heavier, but I thought "hey, it'll stop again, stop being mischievous, sky!"; and the heavens opened up and poured water all over me, my cam and my bag in some silent form of protest. Being foolhardy I just continued shooting anyways, and had to spend about half an hour drying my bag at home. And the best part is, I didn't even get any good pictures in the rain due to the huge amount of distraction.

    And then there was another time when me and another dude were going to another place to shoot. Before he picked me up it was drizzling. Along the way the rain poured, and he asked me: Do we turn back or? In the end we decided to proceed and when we reached the location the rain stopped. And the sun was blazing continuously after that, only when we left the place we were shooting it did it start to pour again. That time, I think I got good pictures.

    So, sometimes, it doesn't matter what the decision you make is. You make it at a point in time, and another point in time, the results could be entirely different. What is more important is to ensure that you are able to handle the situation properly if things do not go as planned and adapt and accommodate to the conditions, because all you can control in life is yourself, not the 8 million other factors and elements in it.

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    Default Re: Serious Thought Required - A question.

    Quote Originally Posted by Deadpoet View Post
    Suffering is really not the real question here.

    What are the consequences of the suffering?

    Will the suffering of a large group of people lead to a greater good?

    Or even better, will you suffering alone lead to more trauma in the future?

    Most people around here had chosen to suffer alone to spare the group. I think that is noble, but thinking about it, is it the smartest thing to do. It may jolly well be the selfish solution.

    Assuming the group you refer to is family, for example. What is your responsibility to the family? How will the self-sacrificing affect your ability to live up to the responsibility you have to your family?

    I don't have an answer. I am just uncomfortable with so many people knee jerking reacting to being the martyr. That is actually the easy asnwer to give. An in many ways, the selfish answer.
    Always DP. Somehow I can feel at ease seeing an answer radically different from others, at least I know there are differing views!

    But seriously, ur answer spurred me to think a notch up.

    I need more from u guys! Different views, ultra-conservative, ultra-orthodox, ultra-radical, whatever it may be. Air it! Air it! We may not have our own answers or are feeling in the dark as well, like the blind leading the blind. But through open airing of views, each of us can spur ourselves to think on a level up.

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    Default Re: Serious Thought Required - A question.

    I am a human being, not a saint, I will protect myself from suffering.

    When I first saw your question, I immediately think of drama show whereby a person is going to donate his organ to save his family but after donating his organ, he will die.
    Last edited by Paul_Yeo; 23rd April 2007 at 11:13 AM.

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    Default Re: Serious Thought Required - A question.

    Also, is the suffering reversible? If you chose to suffer, what will happen if you found that u made the wrong choice and u cannot tahan the torment?

    Actually, whichever option u chose, both sides will suffer what

    If u get tormented, the grp will also feel for u. If u let the grp suffer, u yourself will also feel for them...

    it is just a matter of who want to suffer the emotional and physical pains. whatever pains, both sides still pain pain

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    Default Re: Serious Thought Required - A question.

    I recall a mini story of children playing on a railway track.. 1 boy knew the dangers of playing on the track, so he chose to play by himself on an abandoned track. The others preferred the other active track. As they were playing they didn't realise that a train is approaching them fast. You are near the junction control to switch the train to the older unused track with only 1 boy on it.

    Will you "Switch it over and kill the 1 boy or let the many kids die?"
    “How fortunate for leaders that men do not think.” - Adolf Hitler

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    Default Re: Serious Thought Required - A question.

    suffering is nothing.. "吃得苦中苦,方為人上人"
    “How fortunate for leaders that men do not think.” - Adolf Hitler

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    Default Re: Serious Thought Required - A question.

    Quote Originally Posted by yanyewkay View Post
    I recall a mini story of children playing on a railway track.. 1 boy knew the dangers of playing on the track, so he chose to play by himself on an abandoned track. The others preferred the other active track. As they were playing they didn't realise that a train is approaching them fast. You are near the junction control to switch the train to the older unused track with only 1 boy on it.

    Will you "Switch it over and kill the 1 boy or let the many kids die?"
    actually i heard a diff version of this story related to the Gospel.

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    Default Re: Serious Thought Required - A question.

    Quote Originally Posted by yanyewkay View Post
    suffering is nothing.. "吃得苦中苦,方為人上人"
    what if he suffers half way, and cannot tahan

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    Default Re: Serious Thought Required - A question.

    Quote Originally Posted by Paul_Yeo View Post
    Also, is the suffering reversible? If you chose to suffer, what will happen if you found that u made the wrong choice and u cannot tahan the torment?

    Actually, whichever option u chose, both sides will suffer what

    If u get tormented, the grp will also feel for u. If u let the grp suffer, u yourself will also feel for them...

    it is just a matter of who want to suffer the emotional and physical pains. whatever pains, both sides still pain pain
    On the assumption that the suffering is eternal and irreversible if one chooses to suffer alone and ditto for other ppl suffering.

    Think of... Living in Hell for eternity for One and Living Hell for the group of others. Yes, somewhere along that line.

  19. #19

    Default Re: Serious Thought Required - A question.

    Quote Originally Posted by yanyewkay View Post
    I recall a mini story of children playing on a railway track.. 1 boy knew the dangers of playing on the track, so he chose to play by himself on an abandoned track. The others preferred the other active track. As they were playing they didn't realise that a train is approaching them fast. You are near the junction control to switch the train to the older unused track with only 1 boy on it.

    Will you "Switch it over and kill the 1 boy or let the many kids die?"
    Hahaha, that is so Swordfish.

    Stanley: How can you justify all this?
    Gabriel: You're not looking at the big picture Stan. Here's a scenario. You have the power to cure all the world's diseases but the price for this is that you must kill a single innocent child, could you kill that child Stanley?
    Stanley: No.
    Gabriel: You disappoint me, it's the greatest good.
    Stanley: Well how about 10 innocents?
    Gabriel: Now you're gettin' it, how about a hundred - how about a THOUSAND? Not to save the world but to preserve our way of life.
    Stanley: No man has the right to make that decision; you're no different from any other terrorist.
    Gabriel: No, you're wrong Stanley. Thousands die every day for no reason at all, where's your bleeding heart for them? You give your twenty dollars to Greenpeace every year thinking you're changing the world? What countries will harbor terrorists when they realize the consequences of what I'll do? Did you know that I can buy nuclear warheads in Minsk for forty million each? Hell, I'd buy half a dozen and even get a discount!

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    Default Re: Serious Thought Required - A question.

    Quote Originally Posted by jsbn View Post

    Think of... Living in Hell for eternity for One and Living Hell for the group of others. Yes, somewhere along that line.
    Living in hell - u forever feel the PAIN.

    living hell - i believe no matter how emotionally painful, the group will forget the pain one day. if 1 year cannot forget, 10 years, 100 years, 500 years. but for u, u will be FOREVER living in hell.

    the death of a son is painful to the father, but one day time will heal.

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