let's close down critique corner

[eikin]

from this thread http://forums.clubsnap.org/showthrea...28#post3015328

this is the sentiment i get, especially with recent tightening up of posting guidelines. that people don't want to get critiqued when they post in critique corner. they only want to see all positive comments, regardless of superficiality of the postings.

i see no point in wasting my time in critique corner if most people don't want to make critique corner meaningful.

ask yourself, what's the difference between posting in the usual galleries and inside critique corner?

[compro_1975]

i think one should exercise tolerance.... like the guy with the 'w' username..... he himself is always throwing back the question and he even go question others....

for me i think the sub-forum should stay for people who really wants to learn.... tho i do not frequent there.....

[Cheesecake]

Originally Posted by eikin from this thread http://forums.clubsnap.org/showthrea...28#post3015328 this is the sentiment i get, especially with recent tightening up of posting guidelines. that people don't want to get critiqued when they post in critique corner. they only want to see all positive comments, regardless of superficiality of the postings. i see no point in wasting my time in critique corner if most people don't want to make critique corner meaningful. ask yourself, what's the difference between posting in the usual galleries and inside critique corner?

let's close it down.

[eikin]

Originally Posted by compro_1975 i think one should exercise tolerance.... like the guy with the 'w' username..... he himself is always throwing back the question and he even go question others.... for me i think the sub-forum should stay for people who really wants to learn.... tho i do not frequent there.....

the way i see it. after repeated reminders, countless tips, those who want to learn only want to learn it their way. many critique seekers have no consideration for critique givers. they post a picture, say 'CnC welcomed' and expect to be spoonfed from day 1 with all the marvellous tricks and techniques that will make them world class photographers overnight. they don't respect critique as an activity that requires effort from both sides, they only want to be praised, protected and helped, and this is fueled by those who regard freedom of speech so much that they think they can post any kind of comment they want and that will pass off as critique.

i'm not saying every single critique seeker/giver is like that, there are those who genuinely come in to learn/share with sincerity. and the new and strict guidelines are there precisely to separate those who are sincere from those who treat the place like a dumping ground, so that the former can receive the critique they deserve or share their knowledge efficiently. but the bulk of the people are not appreciating it, what can i say, maybe a singaporean tendency?

well, there's no meaning in supply when demand is low, i only see that alot of people treat critique corner like another landscape gallery, another macro gallery and so on. there's no difference making a post in critique corner and making a post in the other galleries.

[willdon]

Originally Posted by compro_1975 i think one should exercise tolerance.... like the guy with the 'w' username..... he himself is always throwing back the question and he even go question others.... for me i think the sub-forum should stay for people who really wants to learn.... tho i do not frequent there.....

thanks young boy,but your reply is not on topic.i only throw back question toward "You" cause you always never use your brain to think before answering.

[willdon]

Originally Posted by eikin the way i see it. after repeated reminders, countless tips, those who want to learn only want to learn it their way. many critique seekers have no consideration for critique givers. they post a picture, say 'CnC welcomed' and expect to be spoonfed from day 1 with all the marvellous tricks and techniques that will make them world class photographers overnight. they don't respect critique as an activity that requires effort from both sides, they only want to be praised, protected and helped, and this is fueled by those who regard freedom of speech so much that they think they can post any kind of comment they want and that will pass off as critique. i'm not saying every single critique seeker/giver is like that, there are those who genuinely come in to learn with sincerity. and the new and strict guidelines are there precisely to filter those who are sincere from those who treat the place like a dumping ground, so that the former can received the critique they deserve. but the bulk of the people are not appreciating it, what can i say, maybe a singaporean tendency? well, there's no meaning in supply when demand is low, i only see that alot of people treat critique corner like another landscape gallery, another macro gallery and so on. there's no difference making a post in critique corner and making a post in the other galleries.

Instead of starting a poll to close down the critiques corner which admin/mod took so much effort to built?
I think we should think of a better way to improve rather than choosing the easy way out.
Example could be
1) Guidelines to show before starting a thread in critique corner.
2) thread title
3) upload 1 pic
4) what you intend to show?
5) what have you show?
6) include all exif informations

[eikin]

Originally Posted by willdon Instead of starting a poll to close down the critiques corner which admin/mod took so much effort to built? I think we should think of a better way to improve rather than choosing the easy way out. Example could be 1) Guidelines to show before starting a thread in critique corner. 2) thread title 3) upload 1 pic 4) what you intend to show? 5) what have you show? 6) include all exif informations

taking an easy way out? do you think all these have not been suggested before?

do not be too quick to put a judgement on things you do not have enough understanding of. i shall not comment on the apparent inaction.

given what we have now, what have been done and what we can do, i say this forum is not ready for a meaningful critique corner.

[willdon]

close

[eikin]

Originally Posted by willdon A meaningful critique corner to me (myself) is not asking a threadstarter Reply by shutterwerkz was Sorry for the confusion... i would prefer comments towards creation Thk U Is that neccessary for a start to dish out your professional critiques? So next time i shoot a model with a car,are you starting one with "are you looking for critique on the picture you've created or on model or on car?"

fundamentally, you photograph a picture and say that you like that picture because of how it appeals to you, how are you going to expect others to understand you that you're trying to show YOUR photography?

professional critique? i'll just say questioning is perhaps one of the most effective critique method because it forces the critiqued party to self-reflect on his/her own blindspots.

i think your reaction is far too unnecessary. if i were to be strict, the thread would have been deleted. TS has not written anything about his own picture except putting down a couple of technical information that do not seem to be related to the post processing he applied.

i will ask the same question to any picture that do not show enough intention nor clarity.

[Conundrumachinist]

Originally Posted by eikin taking an easy way out? do you think all these have not been suggested before? do not be too quick to put a judgement on things you do not have enough understanding of. i shall not comment on the apparent inaction. given what we have now, what have been done and what we can do, i say this forum is not ready for a meaningful critique corner.

My suggestion would be to restrict posts on critique corner to those who've attained "Member" status. This applies to both posting the pictures and those commenting on them. Hopefully "member"s would have been on Clubsnap long enough to know how critique corner "should" work

And restrict each member to 1 post per thread including the TS. This way they they do not carry out a "conversation" on the thread.Anything they want to say with regards to the post can be said in one post.

[Benchmarc]

Lets be fair to those who wanna learn and intend to get some really good feedback by posting in the critique corner.
For those who you think cannot stomach comments, ignore them lo

[Pablo]

Hi eikin,

I have to agree with you in part and understand your dismay as to how it is going.

May I make a suggestion

Why not just hide it from access a few weeks (critique corner), give it a holiday.

When it comes back, give it a new name like ...."testing ground" or something like that.

Keep the same rules.

Here is a scary idea ..... I was going to suggest a similar idea to portraits ......

Have a rolling roster of a few chosen members. Different one for each of 7 days.

The chosen member of the day gives comments/suggestions/help etc, for all posts of that day.

After the first day of a post, it is open to others to make comments.

I guess it would take a lot of work to keep track of

[1911]

well, if you have tried but failed to make the critique corner a more meaningful place for everybody to improve in one way or another, how about you pass it to someone else to do it? Different ppl have different approaches. This critique corner did not come easy, I don't want to see it die this way.

Singapore is a multi-cultural multi-racial society, the meaning of it? This means ppl here will have very diverse views. Some will like to have only praises, some want to seek genuine critiques. Why should you punish those who want to have genuine critiques because of those who only want to have praises?

In addition, art is something very subjective. The works by Picasso, in some ppl's eyes, maybe are just as good as a kid's works. Something that you don't like does not mean it is a failure. Let's all be more tolerant here. On the one hand, it is up to the TS to decide what he/she wants to accept, on the other hand, it is up to ppl who make the critique to decide what they want to say. Remember, no single person in this world can be the 'judge' of a piece of art.

my 2 cents...

[bahibo]

I'm not senior in this Forum, join not really long ago , bump into a lot of fight.... But i think, the way u criticize by using that kind of question ,for newbie who just join , they don't really understand what u mean and it's more like u schold them than u ask them to think. The Pradamodel TS is wrong due to the fact that 90% of his photo is just a photo of other photo but ur question, more like asking him no brain than explain to him. U got time to critique, why only 1 question and no explaination for the question ? I thought u post a very detail guide for C&C ?


About ur reason to close down C&c, it's like u angry with many people about the way they approach photography in the easy going way and defendsive..... But i think..due to the thinking, that one thought once he hold good equipment, he think himself as artist, photographer and put too much pride into it , that the way many artist are, why u blame them instead of letting them know , i mean the way a lot people in CS care about equipment and respect to those who is more seniors doesn't really regarding contribution and photos a lot, aren't this type of forum make people equipment hunter instead of photograph. And long time i never seen any disscuss on photography phylosophy.

And don't u think that ur view point a bit small.... I saw a lot who say thanks to harsh comments ,but u, when getting in a fight, start to fly around angry and want to destroy what u just what to improve, it's not ur, u cant tell people how to think, they are bad, so they aren't become good photographers, it's their problem. U who break ur rule first for asking those kind of mystery and deep deep question instead of comment on that bad photo according to ur guideline that u post.

Eikin, change can't be that fast, u can't change things that fast. Why dont u slowly remind people who post comment wrongly ? Waste too much time ? I think so..... But u can't really said people are bad cause they approach "taking-photo" aka "photography" differently , i agree that they are easy going and selective hearing , but is it that all like that ? Or most ? I dont think so


Just my idea, not really anything toward you cause i don't know u. Hope u dont feel bad about me.

[eikin]

Originally Posted by Conundrumachinist My suggestion would be to restrict posts on critique corner to those who've attained "Member" status. This applies to both posting the pictures and those commenting on them. Hopefully "member"s would have been on Clubsnap long enough to know how critique corner "should" work And restrict each member to 1 post per thread including the TS. This way they they do not carry out a "conversation" on the thread.Anything they want to say with regards to the post can be said in one post.

will forward the suggestion when the opportunity comes. thanks for the suggestion.

[eikin]

Originally Posted by 1911 well, if you have tried but failed to make the critique corner a more meaningful place for everybody to improve in one way or another, how about you pass it to someone else to do it? Different ppl have different approaches. This critique corner did not come easy, I don't want to see it die this way. Singapore is a multi-cultural multi-racial society, the meaning of it? This means ppl here will have very diverse views. Some will like to have only praises, some want to seek genuine critiques. Why should you punish those who want to have genuine critiques because of those who only want to have praises? In addition, art is something very subjective. The works by Picasso, in some ppl's eyes, maybe are just as good as a kid's works. Something that you don't like does not mean it is a failure. Let's all be more tolerant here. On the one hand, it is up to the TS to decide what he/she wants to accept, on the other hand, it is up to ppl who make the critique to decide what they want to say. Remember, no single person in this world can be the 'judge' of a piece of art. my 2 cents...

yes, passing on to someone else will be good.

[eikin]

Originally Posted by bahibo I'm not senior in this Forum, join not really long ago , bump into a lot of fight.... But i think, the way u criticize by using that kind of question ,for newbie who just join , they don't really understand what u mean and it's more like u schold them than u ask them to think. The Pradamodel TS is wrong due to the fact that 90% of his photo is just a photo of other photo but ur question, more like asking him no brain than explain to him. U got time to critique, why only 1 question and no explaination for the question ? I thought u post a very detail guide for C&C ?

so you are now blaming me for asking only 1 question instead of providing a full page commentary?

Originally Posted by bahibo About ur reason to close down C&c, it's like u angry with many people about the way they approach photography in the easy going way and defendsive..... But i think..due to the thinking, that one thought once he hold good equipment, he think himself as artist, photographer and put too much pride into it , that the way many artist are, why u blame them instead of letting them know , i mean the way a lot people in CS care about equipment and respect to those who is more seniors doesn't really regarding contribution and photos a lot, aren't this type of forum make people equipment hunter instead of photograph. And long time i never seen any disscuss on photography phylosophy.

i don't really get the point here, but yes there has been almost no discussion on deeper issues. i believe those who were involved in such discussions find this forum not the right place to do it.

Originally Posted by bahibo And don't u think that ur view point a bit small.... I saw a lot who say thanks to harsh comments ,but u, when getting in a fight, start to fly around angry and want to destroy what u just what to improve, it's not ur, u cant tell people how to think, they are bad, so they aren't become good photographers, it's their problem. U who break ur rule first for asking those kind of mystery and deep deep question instead of comment on that bad photo according to ur guideline that u post.

i am surprised that you find such basic questions deep. so how do you propose the questions be asked?

Originally Posted by bahibo Eikin, change can't be that fast, u can't change things that fast. Why dont u slowly remind people who post comment wrongly ? Waste too much time ? I think so..... But u can't really said people are bad cause they approach "taking-photo" aka "photography" differently , i agree that they are easy going and selective hearing , but is it that all like that ? Or most ? I dont think so

i'm not looking at fast changes. i'm basing my opinion on the 1.5 years that this critique corner has been running. if you check on the earliest threads, quite a couple have been locked. i'm reviewing the entire section myself as i do the maintenance of the forum.

Originally Posted by bahibo Just my idea, not really anything toward you cause i don't know u. Hope u dont feel bad about me.

i only have 1 advice for you, or anyone else applicable, if you want to improve or seek critique. quit thinking of yourself as a newbie in photography. the way critique corner is conducted is based on the principle that communication is to be conducted on equal grounds as no one should be more favoured than another, no one should be discriminated. newbie or pro, artist or techno geek, when one make a post in critique corner, the person will be treated as an equal. there are forums which split critique into that for pro and that for newbie, that to me is discrimination.

[willdon]

Originally Posted by eikin i am surprised that you find such basic questions deep. so how do you propose the questions be asked?

Not just him,me too find the question deep.
Not all can afford to finish U and stay/work in jepun lor.

[willdon]

Originally Posted by eikin so you are now blaming me for asking only 1 question instead of providing a full page commentary.

I don't really see which sentence he was blaming you,don't jump to conclusion.

[eikin]

Originally Posted by willdon Not just him,me too find the question deep. Not all can afford to finish U and stay/work in jepun lor.

are you trying to discriminate me for being in japan?

let's look at the question

Originally Posted by eikin what do you intend to show and what have you done in order to show that?

how much more basic can this go?