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Thread: Sunny f/16 and f/22 Rule

  1. #21
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    Default Re: Sunny f/16 and f/22 Rule

    Quote Originally Posted by eagletay View Post
    Does this rule applies to DSLR?

    sorry afor asking stupid qns..
    yes it applies to any camera.

    in general the sunny16 rule applies only when... its sunny! meaning the sun is not covered by any clouds.

  2. #22
    Moderator catchlights's Avatar
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    Default Re: Sunny f/16 and f/22 Rule


    how can it be so dark? are you shooting at back light subjects?
    Last edited by catchlights; 15th April 2007 at 04:46 PM.
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  3. #23
    Moderator catchlights's Avatar
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    Default Re: Sunny f/16 and f/22 Rule

    Quote Originally Posted by ming83 View Post
    yes it applies to any camera.

    in general the sunny16 rule applies only when... its sunny! meaning the sun is not covered by any clouds.
    "sunny f16 rule" is another name for "basic daylight exposure",
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  4. #24

    Default Re: Sunny f/16 and f/22 Rule

    Nowadays with in-camera metering and all those auto exposure modes + on-camera histogram, you don't really need to think so much and estimate the exposure from the F16 guideline.

    At the end of the day, the "correct" exposure still depends on what you want to turn out as middle luminance within the dynamic range of your camera sensor. So the key is still how you do your metering (metering modes and where you meter) and the exposure decisions you make from it (such as exposure compensation in auto or semi-auto exposure modes).

  5. #25
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    Default Re: Sunny f/16 and f/22 Rule

    Quote Originally Posted by Clockunder View Post
    Nowadays with in-camera metering and all those auto exposure modes + on-camera histogram, you don't really need to think so much and estimate the exposure from the F16 guideline.

    At the end of the day, the "correct" exposure still depends on what you want to turn out as middle luminance within the dynamic range of your camera sensor. So the key is still how you do your metering (metering modes and where you meter) and the exposure decisions you make from it (such as exposure compensation in auto or semi-auto exposure modes).
    since nowadays electronic calculator is so cheap, so many functions, every household has a few of them, why would every parents and teachers still insist children must memorize the times table? or even learn to use abacus?
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  6. #26

    Default Re: Sunny f/16 and f/22 Rule

    Quote Originally Posted by eagletay View Post
    Does this rule applies to DSLR?

    sorry afor asking stupid qns..
    yes.. it applies to all cameras

  7. #27

    Default Re: Sunny f/16 and f/22 Rule

    Quote Originally Posted by catchlights View Post
    since nowadays electronic calculator is so cheap, so many functions, every household has a few of them, why would every parents and teachers still insist children must memorize the times table? or even learn to use abacus?
    The basic is about exposure .... the inter-relationsip between aperture, shutter speed and ISO. ............. not about guidelines.

    Once a person understands the basic theory behind, then he can improvise based on the situation.

    You think everyone in the world learn to memorise the times table and learn abacus in order to do well and survive meh? Many more have done very well in life without all these. Take a look at the school systems elsewhere (don't get boxed in by the education system you've been through yourself) and even in International/American schools around and you will understand.

    Many photographers are doing very well even without knowing the F/16 rule because they understand the basics about metering and exposure ........... and not by memorising exposure tables and using rules and guidelines.

    You have to ask yourself how useful is this F16 rule. It applies only to one type of light condition even if you vary the aperture and offset it by either shutter speed or ISO. Even under the light condition specified, it also doesn't take into account what effect you desire (you may want a silhouette) and what you want to be exposed as mid tone. This is not even taking into account the various light conditions you would experience during different time of the day and different weather and sky conditions. At the end of the day, whether a photographer gets the picture he wants depends on his understanding of exposure and metering.
    Last edited by Clockunder; 15th April 2007 at 05:32 PM.

  8. #28
    Member eng_keow's Avatar
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    Default Re: Sunny f/16 and f/22 Rule

    Quote Originally Posted by Clockunder View Post
    The basic is about exposure .... the inter-relationsip between aperture, shutter speed and ISO. ............. not about guidelines.

    Once a person understands the basic theory behind, then he can improvise based on the situation.

    You think everyone in the world learn to memorise the times table and learn abacus in order to do well and survive meh? Many more have done very well in life without all these. Take a look at the school systems elsewhere (don't get boxed in by the education system you've been through yourself) and even in International/American schools around and you will understand.

    Many photographers are doing very well even without knowing the F/16 rule because they understand the basics about metering and exposure ........... and not by memorising exposure tables and using rules and guidelines.

    Thanks, but I think the f16 rule also teach us about the same principles but from another point of view, right?

    The interesting thing is that the shutter should be inverse iso of film. Cool!

  9. #29

    Default Re: Sunny f/16 and f/22 Rule

    Quote Originally Posted by catchlights View Post

    how can it be so dark? are you shooting at back light subjects?
    Thanks alot...I'll memorise this table, believe it'll come in handy I do have some situations such as seaside where pictures became too washed out no matter what settings I used. Will try it out

  10. #30
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    Default Re: Sunny f/16 and f/22 Rule

    Quote Originally Posted by catchlights View Post

    how can it be so dark? are you shooting at back light subjects?
    I tin u miss out 1 more...f4, Sunset, no shadow..hehe
    Last edited by excelglsi; 15th April 2007 at 08:19 PM.

  11. #31

    Default Re: Sunny f/16 and f/22 Rule

    Well, I'll stick my neck out and disagree slightly with some of what is being said. This rule was very much applicable to photographers having to choose which film speed to use. These days, ISO is a function of amplification of the CCD / CMOS anyway, and ISO can be switched with a simple turn of a dial. Secondly, there is hardly any difference shooting at ISO 100 or ISO 400 on a sunny day in any case. Further, many top-end DSLRs have very useful auto-ISO modes that a lot of us use. And, finally, in-camera metering systems are so advanced that we seldom have to work out the relevant ISO / Shutter Speed / Aperture settings unless in difficult lighting situations (i.e. not sunny day, outdoors). In any case, we do not usually shoot at f/16, and don't always have the time to do our sums from that starting point.

    All in all, my basic point is that the sunny 16 rules is really a lot less applicable in this day or highly advance dSLRs.

  12. #32

    Default Re: Sunny f/16 and f/22 Rule

    Quote Originally Posted by eng_keow View Post
    Thanks, but I think the f16 rule also teach us about the same principles but from another point of view, right?

    The interesting thing is that the shutter should be inverse iso of film. Cool!
    It's no miracle that the equation is such that shutter is inverse of the ISO of the film.

    If you understand exposure well, you would know that once you have a specified light condition, there is always possible to have an equation which have the shutter speed inverse of the ISO of the film.

    E.g. indoor fashion shows under a certain typical light condition : rule F/2.8
    F/2.8 ............. 1/200 with ISO 200.
    or
    F/2.8 ............. 1/400 with ISO 400
    or
    F/2.8 ............. 1/800 with ISO 800
    or
    F/2.8 ........... 1/1600 with ISO 1600.

    For another light condition such as indoor shopping centre : Rule F/4
    F/4 ..........1/200 at ISO 200
    or
    F/4 ........ 1/400 at ISO 400
    or
    F/4 ....... 1/80 at ISO 800
    .....and so on.

    This is because the faster shutter speed is exactly offset by a corresponding increase in ISO by the same no. of stops. There is nothing miraculous or magical about shutter speed being inverse of ISO.

    In sum, you can have a rule similar to F/16 rule for each light condition and the shutter speed is exactly the inverse of the ISO. The F number in the rule depends on the light condition...... brighter ==> small F number in the rule.

    It's exposure 101.
    Last edited by Clockunder; 20th April 2007 at 08:34 PM.

  13. #33

    Default Re: Sunny f/16 and f/22 Rule

    Quote Originally Posted by Camm View Post
    Thanks alot...I'll memorise this table, believe it'll come in handy I do have some situations such as seaside where pictures became too washed out no matter what settings I used. Will try it out
    I don't think the rules will solve your problem.

    Your problem is probably better solved by an understanding of exposure and dynamic range.

    If the dynamic range of the scene is too huge for your camera sensor, you will get blown out highlights or black shadows regardless of how you set your camera and what rule you use.

  14. #34

    Default Re: Sunny f/16 and f/22 Rule

    Quote Originally Posted by posez View Post
    Well, I'll stick my neck out and disagree slightly with some of what is being said. This rule was very much applicable to photographers having to choose which film speed to use. These days, ISO is a function of amplification of the CCD / CMOS anyway, and ISO can be switched with a simple turn of a dial. Secondly, there is hardly any difference shooting at ISO 100 or ISO 400 on a sunny day in any case. Further, many top-end DSLRs have very useful auto-ISO modes that a lot of us use. And, finally, in-camera metering systems are so advanced that we seldom have to work out the relevant ISO / Shutter Speed / Aperture settings unless in difficult lighting situations (i.e. not sunny day, outdoors). In any case, we do not usually shoot at f/16, and don't always have the time to do our sums from that starting point.

    All in all, my basic point is that the sunny 16 rules is really a lot less applicable in this day or highly advance dSLRs.
    Agree.

  15. #35

    Default Re: Sunny f/16 and f/22 Rule

    Quote Originally Posted by Clockunder View Post
    It's no miracle that the equation is such that shutter is inverse of the ISO of the film. snip

    If you understand exposure well, you would know that once you have a specified light condition, there is always possible to have an equation which have the shutter speed inverse of the ISO of the film.


    It's exposure 101.
    Man, that's pretty condescending. The TS just wanted to know what it means. Whether he finds it useful/relevant or not is completely up to him. What if I have an FM10 or a OM1 with a broken meter? Whoops, I indeed do have one rickety ole FM. And the sunny 16 helps out a lot.

  16. #36

    Default Re: Sunny f/16 and f/22 Rule

    Quote Originally Posted by cy_j View Post
    Man, that's pretty condescending. The TS just wanted to know what it means. Whether he finds it useful/relevant or not is completely up to him. What if I have an FM10 or a OM1 with a broken meter? Whoops, I indeed do have one rickety ole FM. And the sunny 16 helps out a lot.
    I'm not surprise that you're an Olympus DSLR user.

  17. #37

    Default Re: Sunny f/16 and f/22 Rule

    Quote Originally Posted by Clockunder View Post
    I'm not surprise that you're an Olympus DSLR user.
    Here's the real surprise: I didn't know my fugly FM10 was made by Oly. Or my F4's digital nephew is the E-1. ROFL.

    (Nuff from me. You can have the last word now, as always.)
    Last edited by cy_j; 20th April 2007 at 09:12 PM.

  18. #38
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    Default Re: Sunny f/16 and f/22 Rule

    Quote Originally Posted by cy_j View Post
    Man, that's pretty condescending. The TS just wanted to know what it means. Whether he finds it useful/relevant or not is completely up to him. What if I have an FM10 or a OM1 with a broken meter? Whoops, I indeed do have one rickety ole FM. And the sunny 16 helps out a lot.
    Yup I had try it out and it did work.. But stil have to fine tune... Thanks again guys.. Next time if we meet the treat is on mi...
    P/S just send mi ur contact number and will meet to thanks all the guys here in this thread hehe..

  19. #39
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    Default Re: Sunny f/16 and f/22 Rule

    post here got fee meal har ...haha
    do it b4 TS close thread

  20. #40
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    Default Re: Sunny f/16 and f/22 Rule

    like to meet all the master here,,, hehe

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