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Thread: Criticisms and comments nowadays...

  1. #161
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    Default Re: Criticisms and comments nowadays...

    maybe they should split the P&P section into 2... 1 for sweet candy comment, and one for harsh missile attack.

  2. #162

    Default Re: Criticisms and comments nowadays...

    Quote Originally Posted by Deadpoet View Post
    How does one describe a worst piece of garbage destined for the trash other than say it's a piece of garbage that is destined for the trash bin? Tell me how?

    Of course, as the audience, as the critic and as someone expressing my opinion, whatever praised is of course for me to say, whatever criticism is of course for me to say. It's my opinion. You may disagree with me whether the poster's image deserve my opinion, but that is another issue.
    It is as simple as "I would not have posted this image if I were you".

    We are asking for your tactfulness. That is all. You are a native English speaker, and I believe your vocabulary is wider than many of us. There are definitely better choice of words than to hurt another person's feelings.

  3. #163

    Default Re: Criticisms and comments nowadays...

    Quote Originally Posted by night86mare View Post
    Waitaminute,

    Is what I do considered banal talk? =( =( =(
    We will deal with you another time... ha ha ha... (enough OT liao).

  4. #164
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    Default Re: Criticisms and comments nowadays...

    I had learnt a lot from the pros here who had given valuable critics to my photos both in the tread and PMs. Ortega esp, help me a lot in getting my technics right. I feel that if one really want to learn, any critics that is given should be accepted. If you dont understand what the critic is about, ask the person who give the critics. eg, "yr photo looks flat" does not really help the person learning. Instead, comment like "bring up yr contrast and saturation" may be easier to understand. Comparing my photos from a year ago when I started and now, I find a lot of difference and had made lots of improvements. All thanks to CSers who help me on the way.

    However lately, i see a lot of argument on CS and this lead to a big change in the way C&C are penned. i dont see lot of advice or pointers being given. most ppl keep mum and replies to tread are slowing down except Kopitiam and B&S.

    Everyone have the right to criticise a photo base on his/her views but we should not retaliate with harshness. a simple "I dont agree with yr view" is nicer and friendlier. Lets work together to keep CS a forum it used to be.


    from a person who was total Newbie a year++ ago who had gain valuable lessons from CS.

  5. #165

    Default Re: Criticisms and comments nowadays...

    Quote Originally Posted by microcosm View Post
    It is as simple as "I would not have posted this image if I were you".

    We are asking for your tactfulness. That is all. You are a native English speaker, and I believe your vocabulary is wider than many of us. There are definitely better choice of words than to hurt another person's feelings.
    Is sugar coated poison better than simple poison?

    I rather know that I am being poisoned that died thinking I was eating candy.
    deadpoet
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  6. #166

    Default Re: Criticisms and comments nowadays...

    Quote Originally Posted by Deadpoet View Post
    Is sugar coated poison better than simple poison?

    I rather know that I am being poisoned that died thinking I was eating candy.
    I am merely asking you to think about the other person's feeling than your own.

    No is dying in here from bad photography. Other than our clients who have bad taste in photography.

  7. #167
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    Default Re: Criticisms and comments nowadays...

    Quote Originally Posted by DeSwitch View Post
    I had learnt a lot from the pros here who had given valuable critics to my photos both in the tread and PMs. Ortega esp, help me a lot in getting my technics right. I feel that if one really want to learn, any critics that is given should be accepted. If you dont understand what the critic is about, ask the person who give the critics. eg, "yr photo looks flat" does not really help the person learning. Instead, comment like "bring up yr contrast and saturation" may be easier to understand. Comparing my photos from a year ago when I started and now, I find a lot of difference and had made lots of improvements. All thanks to CSers who help me on the way.

    However lately, i see a lot of argument on CS and this lead to a big change in the way C&C are penned. i dont see lot of advice or pointers being given. most ppl keep mum and replies to tread are slowing down except Kopitiam and B&S.

    Everyone have the right to criticise a photo base on his/her views but we should not retaliate with harshness. a simple "I dont agree with yr view" is nicer and friendlier. Lets work together to keep CS a forum it used to be.


    from a person who was total Newbie a year++ ago who had gain valuable lessons from CS.
    i am touched

  8. #168
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    Default Re: Criticisms and comments nowadays...

    Quote Originally Posted by ortega View Post
    i am touched
    Thanks "SIFU" for your valuable pointers.

  9. #169
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    Default Re: Criticisms and comments nowadays...

    Quote Originally Posted by Deadpoet View Post
    How does one describe a worst piece of garbage destined for the trash other than say it's a piece of garbage that is destined for the trash bin? Tell me how?
    This image does not work because ... .... ...
    From my mind's eye I see ... ... ...
    perhaps you could have ... ... ...
    maybe a different POV would have told the story better, look around

  10. #170
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    Default Re: Criticisms and comments nowadays...

    Quote Originally Posted by DeSwitch View Post
    Thanks "SIFU" for your valuable pointers.
    you are welcomed
    I am glad that my experiences and views have helped you
    may you surpass my meagre abilities and do me proud

  11. #171
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    Default Re: Criticisms and comments nowadays...

    Quote Originally Posted by ortega View Post
    you are welcomed
    I am glad that my experiences and views have helped you
    may you surpass my meagre abilities and do me proud
    Dont dare and dont have the ability to surpass you lah. already having problem catching up..

  12. #172
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    Default Re: Criticisms and comments nowadays...

    Quote Originally Posted by Deadpoet View Post
    How does one describe a worst piece of garbage destined for the trash other than say it's a piece of garbage that is destined for the trash bin? Tell me how?
    If you are not able to articulate or bring a point across properly, I hardly see how I am able to assist you. The onus is not on me to do such a thing. But there are ways a good photo critic is able to bring across his or her point professionally and yet not sound condescending.

    Go flip through old issues of Photography Monthly. There are people who send in their works for critiques and there were those that honestly couldn't pass muster. But the fact that the photo critic was able to bring his point across gained my respect and made it easier for everyone else to learn.

    Now I have only 2 more points to bring across;

    1. The rules in this house is clear. We do not condone such name calling or comments that are derogatory in nature. If you wish to have your say, sure, go ahead, share with them what you think but I do not see a need to insult, degrade, demean or use sarcasm or be high handed. One can be direct, honest and straight forward without being rude.

    It is our wish that you continue to share your views or for everyone to do so but in a manner that is generally acceptable by one and all. The house rules are in place for a reason and it is our wish that they are respected.

    2. When one critiques a photo, I would assume that they are trying to help point out how a photo can be improved if it isn't up to the mark. Now if one is trying trying to help, I am sure one wouldn't begrudge them the effort of putting my point across in a way so that the person on the receiving can can better digest what is trying to be said.

    So now we need to ask ourselves, are we posting a critique to vent and bash or are we trying to help?

  13. #173

    Default Re: Criticisms and comments nowadays...

    I wont mind if you tell me my work is a piece od sh*t or worst, or even call me names.

    That is not criticism at all actually.

    Real and truly valuable critique is that which allows me to know WHY.

    Or at least know why is it sh*t from your point of view.

    And then I can judge for myself if indeed my work is sh*t or it is something you wear on your eyes or that which fills your mind instead.

    A critique is double edged - it may reveals more the critic than that critiqued.
    Last edited by espion; 13th April 2007 at 02:55 PM.

  14. #174

    Default Re: Criticisms and comments nowadays...

    Everybody sees things differently...



    To the critique giver, it may be a snapshot.
    To the photographer, it's a masterpiece.
    To the person looking for soft porn, the more the merrier.
    Last edited by StreetShooter; 13th April 2007 at 02:56 PM.

  15. #175

    Default Re: Criticisms and comments nowadays...

    Deep cover,

    What matters is not so much the subject you are picturing but the way you deal with it. This is what makes something interesting or not.

    The CS website:

    Agree that this is a community and we should respect its rules and all
    members. I only miss the openess of mind that is found in some overseas websites (without turning into a fighting place). How do they do it?

    The portrait section:

    When you look at the portrait section most of the pictures look all the same to me. They remind me a Mattel commercial : Barbie at the beach, in town, doing bicycle, drinving, eating, sunbathing......and sometimes ken shows up.

    Variety is something that seems lacking. I found back my European photo magazines from the early eighties. In those days, Photo Europe was many things : a travel guide, a medical informative sheet, a photographic technical guide, a family counsellor, a guide to human relationship, an underground society researcher, a police inspector, a vice explorer, a nature museum, .......an eye on the world with it's ugly and beautiful things. As a teenager those magazine made me travel, schocked and dream in many occasions. Then came the 90's with the supermodel wave and the same magazine became dead boring.

    I just wish for more different angles of view and see people experiment....not being afraid to be DIFFERENT!

    Criticism and comments :

    There can be a format. Why not? It will help some to give a shape to their ideas and impressions!

    But most of you are right to say that it is a club of friends. We should not be afraid to say negative things ( in a civil manner as said before) and those receivng the critics should be able to take it with a pinch of salt / humour.

    I had pictures slammed or ignored in CS and welcomed overseas. I guess, I learned to like my food a bit salty.

    Thks to Jeannie for bringing it up and "big brother" to allow this discussion.






    Quote Originally Posted by deepcover View Post
    its true that good photos are subjective, but i kinda feel as long as its a scantily clad, well endowed model in the picture, more often than not, it is a "good" picture.
    and furthur more the organised photoshoots titled like "hotter than hot stuf"f, or "sexy baby", or" model in school uniform gets we"t.... its kinda driving cs name down to the ground... its so blatantly low class....
    Last edited by Loupisk; 13th April 2007 at 03:12 PM.

  16. #176
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    Default Re: Criticisms and comments nowadays...

    when we say that photo is a piece of sh*t, we must give reasons and explain.

    when we say a photo is good, we no need to give explanations.

  17. #177

    Default Re: Criticisms and comments nowadays...

    Quote Originally Posted by Deadpoet View Post
    How does one describe a worst piece of garbage destined for the trash other than say it's a piece of garbage that is destined for the trash bin? Tell me how?
    You could say:

    "This photo doesn't work for me as I feel that there are just too many areas to improve. Others may not agree with me but I feel strongly that you would be doing yourself a big favour if you re-shot the photo and deleted the original."

    as opposed to:

    "This photo sucks royally and stinks to high heaven. Even the devils in hell wouldn't spit on it so you should just delete it, empty your Recycle Bin and format your memory card."


    They both tell the photographer that his photo doesn't work for you but whilst the first has some encouragement in it for the photographer to do better, the second outrightly condemns and humiliates.

    This isn't about sugar coating your words, this is about etiquette; meanings can be conveyed in many ways and we can choose to be direct yet polite or direct but rude. When photographers ask for C&C, they are asking for Comments and Critique that will help them improve, not Condemnation and Censure that will discourage; and whilst many of your curt remarks are followed by useful pointers, I believe that no one in CS is going to fault you if you continued with your pointers but changed your brusque delivery of it.

    _
    Last edited by deadpixel; 13th April 2007 at 03:11 PM.

  18. #178
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    Default Re: Criticisms and comments nowadays...

    I guessed the explanation is very important. A well phrased commendation is all worth it when its stating on where and why its good. But sugar-coated when ppl juz goes. WOW! THIS IS SO BEAUTIFUL, YOU ARE SO PRO... etc. etc...

    Also, I don't mind ppl go, yucks this is so crap. As long as ppl goes on and explain why. Be constructive in comments.

    As my group of friends always say, don't give any objections (say where to eat, etc..) when you don't have a better idea. Any "No" needs to come with another suggestion. If not, you are not part of the solution = part of the problem.
    Andy Ang :lovegrin: - "A Photo speaks a thousand words. Have you spoken today?"
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  19. #179
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    Default Re: Criticisms and comments nowadays...

    so, the conclusion is?

    the poor fragile pride / heart of the photographer will get hurt. Pls do not use harsh remarks.


  20. #180

    Default Re: Criticisms and comments nowadays...

    Quote Originally Posted by deadpixel View Post
    This isn't about sugar coating your words, this is about etiquette; meanings can be conveyed in many ways and we can choose to be direct yet polite or direct but rude. When photographers ask for C&C, they are asking for Comments and Critique that will help them improve, not Condemnation and Censure that will discourage; and whilst many of your curt remarks are followed by useful pointers, I believe that no one in CS is going to fault you if you continued with your pointers but changed your brusque delivery of it.
    _
    Well said.

    In other word, DP, you can be direct without being rude. Directness and politeness are not mutually exclusive.

    Are you able to understand this?

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