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Thread: Criticisms and comments nowadays...

  1. #101
    Moderator ortega's Avatar
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    Default Re: Criticisms and comments nowadays...

    Quote Originally Posted by night86mare View Post
    You mean, everyone?

    But why would the pros want to waste their time with any of these? I mean, other than those already present here and actively giving good critique (not many of those, tbh).
    the main problem is that sometimes the TS cannot take a negative C&C
    and does nothing after receiving the C&C

    once a long time ago i give a C&C, the TS went back and did a reshoot
    and after posted an improved version of the original image

    all reading and no action
    do nothing, learn nothing

  2. #102

    Default Re: Criticisms and comments nowadays...

    IMHO, i think making rude/nasty/sarcastic comments abt pics doesn't happen a whole lot in other photography sites like pbase or flickr. it just seems to be a CS disease.

    mind you, there are tons of crap photos in pbase and flickr. and there are some truly wonderful photos there too. notice that almost all the comments posted (if any) on the pics are positive ones. what does this tell you? no comments = your work is not up to scratch. yep, no need for "sucks", "trash" or whatever comments.

    even the "harshest" criticisms dished out by the pros and experts in leading photography magazines when critiquing readers' submitted photos never use words like "sucks", "trash" or "crap". they are constructive, and the worst thing they will say about a photo is that it "doesn't work" for <_______> reasons.
    if that is considered "sugarcoating", then i say "sugarcoating" is a good and decent thing.

    how to improve one's photography then? simple. look at the good/popular photos/galleries out there and learn to be a better critic of your own photography. as photographers (regardless of skill level), it really is not that hard to tell a good photo from a bad one.

    i'm all for genuine and honest criticisms, but please, have the decency to be tactful, civilised and professional about it.
    Last edited by zaren; 12th April 2007 at 11:56 PM.

  3. #103

    Default Re: Criticisms and comments nowadays...

    Quote Originally Posted by eikin View Post
    yes i mean we need to promote such attitudes. this will help raise the quality of postings in CS, and that is the draw for people to come in. you want to attract the pros, you need to show that this place has got the right atmosphere and environment for them to perform. you cannot be expecting established photographers to be willing to contribute anything to a forum known to be full of kopitiam talk, pseudo critics and enclaves that sugar up each other.
    Oh, I fully agree, especially with the parts in bold.

    But best not to go into detail. Oh wells. That is life. If someone knows someone else better, they would necessarily be more forgiving, and less objective in giving critique. More likely to give thumbups more often than not, even when sometimes it is not really deserved.

    I get what you mean now! So right now, they will not get that warm fuzzy feeling when they help out. Which is kinda true.

  4. #104
    Senior Member Sion's Avatar
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    Default Re: Criticisms and comments nowadays...

    Quote Originally Posted by eikin View Post
    seriously, you shouldn't be saying this, there are more experienced guys out there like you. both knowledge and skills wise, i cannot match with the real pros out there yet.

    some pros do drop in at critique corner once in a while, like you, catchlights etc. but we need more! more! more!
    Where is catchlights hah?

  5. #105
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    Default Re: Criticisms and comments nowadays...

    Quote Originally Posted by Sion View Post
    Where is catchlights hah?
    busy making money

  6. #106

    Default Re: Criticisms and comments nowadays...

    Quote Originally Posted by jeanie View Post
    actually, a pro(shoots for living) ever did email me.
    he told me he didnt want to comment on pics cos if anything turns ugly, it'll affect his business/reputation.
    just imagine a pro photog come slamming pics, or saying crap pics are GOOD.
    can u imagine the repercussions on his business?
    i reckon that's why they dont post much.for fear of offending people, or getting shot at.

    but whenever they post pictures, people who knew they are pro will indefinitely say things like 'good shots', 'nice', 'more' and blah.
    dont tell me you guys dont agree.
    You can remain anonymous what.

    I mean,if you are a pro, you don't need to have to dangle out your name to show that you are a pro. I mean, there are people you just need to look at their photos, and look at the way they give critique, you know they are good.

    If a pro photographer slams pictures and gives his reasons why, I don't see how it would be negative. He will have loads of people carrying his skirts. And I seriously doubt how he would say that crap pics are good!

  7. #107

    Default Re: Criticisms and comments nowadays...

    Quote Originally Posted by Sion View Post
    I don't go to photo galleries much and don't know the real situation here.

    I think for a start you could set example by giving more "GENUINE, honest criticisms" and more people will follow in that direction.

    I came across a critque by eikin recently and was impressed that he had taken time and trouble to give such an in-depth review of a photo someone posted. It makes us ask ourselves, "Hey maybe I shoud do something like this?"

    However this is a free world. No one wants to dictate what to post or what to say about a photo. ClubSnap will find its rhythm and ebb and flow without us pushing it this way or that way.

    Some people like this also Si Peh Boh Song like that also Si Peh Tu Lan. Moderators caution also Boh Song. Thread got locked also must start second and third one. Like that Lim Peh see also Boh Song.
    Hahahahahaha.



    You mean.. Your main haunt here is Kopitiam and nowhere else?

  8. #108
    Senior Member Sion's Avatar
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    Default Re: Criticisms and comments nowadays...

    Quote Originally Posted by night86mare View Post
    You can remain anonymous what.

    I mean,if you are a pro, you don't need to have to dangle out your name to show that you are a pro. I mean, there are people you just need to look at their photos, and look at the way they give critique, you know they are good.

    If a pro photographer slams pictures and gives his reasons why, I don't see how it would be negative. He will have loads of people carrying his skirts. And I seriously doubt how he would say that crap pics are good!
    So you are a PRO?


  9. #109
    Moderator ortega's Avatar
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    Default Re: Criticisms and comments nowadays...

    Quote Originally Posted by night86mare View Post
    If a pro photographer slams pictures and gives his reasons why, I don't see how it would be negative. He will have loads of people carrying his skirts. And I seriously doubt how he would say that crap pics are good!
    his skirts?

  10. #110

    Default Re: Criticisms and comments nowadays...

    Quote Originally Posted by ortega View Post
    the main problem is that sometimes the TS cannot take a negative C&C
    and does nothing after receiving the C&C

    once a long time ago i give a C&C, the TS went back and did a reshoot
    and after posted an improved version of the original image

    all reading and no action
    do nothing, learn nothing


    Or there are those who just ignore the C&C!

    I know a few threads where the TS only responds to good comments and ignores all the bad comments.. Then why post? Want to feel good just sit and talk to the wall.

    "My photo very nice right?"

    "Ya, very nice hor."

    "Wa, si bei nice!"

  11. #111
    Senior Member Sion's Avatar
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    Default Re: Criticisms and comments nowadays...

    Quote Originally Posted by night86mare View Post
    Hahahahahaha.



    You mean.. Your main haunt here is Kopitiam and nowhere else?
    Lim Peh only like to Lim Kopi not P&P lah.

  12. #112

    Default Re: Criticisms and comments nowadays...

    Quote Originally Posted by Sion View Post
    So you are a PRO?

    Prostitute maybe la, what pro.

    Newbie lor.

    I use figurative example only leh, you make my thick skin hurt liao. =( =( =( I will now commit harakiri!

  13. #113

    Default Re: Criticisms and comments nowadays...

    Quote Originally Posted by ortega View Post
    his skirts?
    Well, Sion make so much jokes about upskirts recently!

    And besides, skirts a lot easier to carry than pants. Plus, can hold a lot more people!

  14. #114
    Senior Member Sion's Avatar
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    Default Re: Criticisms and comments nowadays...

    Quote Originally Posted by ortega View Post
    his skirts?
    You may notice that some guys in CS wear skirts and lady shoes.

  15. #115

    Default Re: Criticisms and comments nowadays...

    Quote Originally Posted by Sion View Post
    Lim Peh only like to Lim Kopi not P&P lah.


    P&P = Pump & Pump?

  16. #116

    Default Re: Criticisms and comments nowadays...

    Quote Originally Posted by Wolfgang View Post
    My post is already as clear as I can make it. You are not the only one tired at the moment. I am equally mentally worn out, if not more. But that is besides the point.

    Again what you ask me to clarify is a fundamental part of human nature and the difference that is inherent in all of us.

    If you ask why can't everyone can't take DP's comment, then I would like to put to you why must everyone accept his comment? Do you mean everyone is the same and must be comfortable with a particular person's style?

    In fact, you know, it brings to point abt an incident from awhile back...

    A CS member posted a picture and it got spoofed and the poster was really upset. Now, i ask myself why the first member is so upset? It is a spoof. A joke or a lark. Something to lighten the day's drudgery. Why should anyone get so upset?

    But i looked at the person's point of view again and i realize that the poster put in a degree of effort and that shot probably meant a lot and by having the photo spoofed or critiqued in a rude or unpleasant manner simply was not a good feeling.


    So back to the point you raise. It isn't all about one person. This is a community. A forum. Do not for a moment feel that because you are right or you think you are right, you are allowed to shoot your mouth off, be rude, brash, tactless or high-handed.

    Jeanie, i hope you get my point and what I am trying to bring across.

    Thank you.

    wolf,
    i get your point.and you can always come clean on me.

    your example quoted was actually my case which i pm you about sion making fun of my pics whenever i posted one for c&c.

    a community, a forum?of course i understand.i'm a moderator myself.and i'm glad and proud to say, that my community doesnt have as much flames/political agenda compared to cs.(oh well, we are a smaller bunch anyway).

    i just want to let you guys know i'm NOT always for what dp says.
    and i did argue/quarrel with him many times, but we bring it offline over in email.i had also flamed him many times regarding his tactless comments at times.
    in the end?we manage to salvage a friendship which i never did tot of.

    i hope you as a moderator can be more open to all.somehow reading the thread u closed yesterday started by dp gives me the impression you really have something personal against him.but i'll leave it as that.

    last question.if you are tired,or mentally worn out, why dont you take a break from moderating cs?is it voluntary?or 'compulsory'(so to speak)?

    no offense intended at all.i hope i shed some light on how some members feel(by this thread).not many people, less to say gals, dare to speak up bluntly like me.

  17. #117
    Member Static's Avatar
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    Default Re: Criticisms and comments nowadays...

    Quote Originally Posted by night86mare View Post
    Something I feel is true too.

    I post a lot, but I don't get as much comments as I want to. Sometimes I just feel like posting up snapshots to get attention and maybe my other shots will be noticed too.

    Some more, I really don't mind brutality. You can do it DP style or what style and tell me to jump off buildings, chop off my head, or get fed to Afghan girl ghosts. My skin is thick.
    if it's just one or two giving negative comments its still tolerable. But CS seemed

    to have this regular trend that when a popular figure start ranting on how bad the

    peektures are, u see a horde of kaypohs emerging from the shadows defecating even more

    derogatory jibes. Some even took it as an opportunity to display their

    jocular "intellectualism" while others enjoyed the despotic freedom of lashing out at newbies

    without fear of being criticised for the lack of insenstitivty since the majority are at it.



    I believe that TS (from Nira thread) was just probably sharing moments of the model shoot

    with other members and also his style of photography.

    Why the need to be so harsh.....

    Remember SHARING IS CARING
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  18. #118
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    Default Re: Criticisms and comments nowadays...

    Quote Originally Posted by zaren View Post
    IMHO, i think making rude/nasty/sarcastic comments abt pics doesn't happen a whole lot in other photography sites like pbase or flickr. it just seems to be a CS disease.

    mind you, there are tons of crap photos in pbase and flickr. and there are some truly wonderful photos there too. notice that almost all the comments posted (if any) on the pics are positive ones. what does this tell you? no comments = your work is not up to scratch. yep, no need for "sucks", "trash" or whatever comments.

    even the "harshest" criticisms dished out by the pros and experts in leading photography magazines when critiquing readers' submitted photos never use words like "sucks", "trash" or "crap". they are constructive, and the worst thing they will say about a photo is that it "doesn't work" for <_______> reasons.
    if that is considered "sugarcoating", then i say "sugarcoating" is a good and decent thing.

    how to improve one's photography then? simple. look at the good/popular photos/galleries out there and learn to be a better critic of your own photography. as photographers (regardless of skill level), it really is not that hard to tell a good photo from a bad one.

    i'm all for genuine and honest criticisms, but please, have the decency to be tactful, civilised and professional about it.
    and i must add that i'm all against those who come into CS thinking that they'll be imparted with super photographer skills that will make them star photographers in 24 hours.

    critique is a mentally taxing work because you need to consider how best to provide feedback and guidance without committing the crime of administering methods in a spoonfeeding manner or dictating how the other party should be making his/her pictures.

  19. #119

    Default Re: Criticisms and comments nowadays...

    Quote Originally Posted by Static View Post
    if it's just one or two giving negative comments its still tolerable. But CS seemed to have this regular trend that when a popular figure start ranting on how bad the peektures are, u see a horde of kaypohs emerging from the shadows defecating even more derogatory jibes. Some even took it as an opportunity to display their
    jocular "intellectualism" while others enjoyed the despotic freedom of lashing out at newbies
    without fear of being criticised for the lack of insenstitivty since the majority are at it.

    I believe that TS (from Nira thread) was just probably sharing moments of the model shoot
    with other members and also his style of photography.Why the need to be so harsh.....
    Wa, jeanie already say that this thread not about Nira leh. =(

    I don't think she's focusing on the thread itself, probably just a major trend that she thinks she observes. And I guess she's entitled to it!

    We all have to be a lot more tolerant and harmonious. First tolerance, then harmony. Didn't you learn that during Racial Harmony Day? (Oh please, let no one suddenly drag the gahment in out of nowhere again.. )

  20. #120
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    Default Re: Criticisms and comments nowadays...

    Last Warning.

    Any further banal postings will be deleted.

    Thank you.

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