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Thread: Recommendation for new PC

  1. #81

    Default Re: Recommendation for new PC

    Personally, I will always choose PC...
    I will also choose AMD...

    Why?

    I like my things to last a long time. My current PC is well into its 5th year, and its still going strong. I can add RAM, change CPU, upgrade HDD, install new DVD drives... so that my PC will serve my needs many years into its life.

    It's setup as follows:
    CPU: Athlon XP 2400+
    M/B: Gigabyte GA-7VRXP
    RAM: DDR333 1GB
    HDD: 2x 80GB 7200RPM RAID0
    Video: nVidia GeForce2 MX400

    It's currently a bit slow when I open those 20-30MB PS files, but then I don't do it so often because I'm not pro. Unless you're constantly opening and closing these files, it's not that crucial to have a Super Computer on your desktop. You just need something workable. I find that there is too much hype over the CPU speed. 2 Core, 4 Core... well they help, but only so much. Your system will only run as fast as the weakest link... and that's usually the HDD. Hence, RAID0, RAID0+1 or RAID5 would really help. Having enough RAM is also important else the the system will scribe onto the HDD (which is the weakest link).

    If you set up your PC properly, it will run efficiently. My home PC is faster than my office PC, even though my office PC is much newer.

    With a MAC... you can only sit around and wait for it to become unusable... Also, I can't stand MAC advertisements. They mix truth with falsehood, like the devils do... and their machines are mostly only so-so. They are just different... not necessarily better. We can go into the details and compare point for point... but there's really no point in doing that. Just pick the machine you are comfortable with

    I like AMD because it is cheaper, and its upgrade path is better. They tend to stick to the same socket for longer time (except for socket 939). This means I can buy a faster CPU later on. AMD is also a more open company who is willing to work with others for better chipsets.

    My PC is a bit slow now... I think I should upgrade in 3Q or later when the price drops. I'm quite looking forward to it.

  2. #82

    Default Re: Recommendation for new PC

    Choosing a PC for upgradability if the relevant person lacks the (interest/knowhow) in to upgrade.

    Plenty of people don't upgrade anything, and don't see the need to. The consumer mac desktops are also pretty small, which is an advantage.

    Quote Originally Posted by nottipiglet View Post
    Personally, I will always choose PC...
    I like AMD because it is cheaper, and its upgrade path is better. They tend to stick to the same socket for longer time (except for socket 939). This means I can buy a faster CPU later on. AMD is also a more open company who is willing to work with others for better chipsets.
    Erh. AMD's recent performance in this area has been abysmal - Socket 754? Socket 939? Socket AM2? AM2+?

    I have a 2.5 year old A64, and no upgrade path (754). Of course I knew that when I bought it, but.

    For AV applications, generally intel has always been equivalent or better (FWIR) even during the dark days of the P4. Right now AMD is becoming a little more competitive again (for general computing) because of their pretty drastic price cuts, but intel is next due to cut their prices on April 22, and unless there are further AMD price cuts at that point it's hard to recommend AMD. (And.. if I were buying now, I would wait for the april 22nd cuts to filter to Singapore - and buy a 6320, 6420 or 6600, depending on whether overclocking will be done)

  3. #83

    Default Re: Recommendation for new PC

    Thread moved to kopitiam
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  4. #84

    Default Re: Recommendation for new PC

    Quote Originally Posted by nottipiglet View Post
    Personally, I will always choose PC...
    It's currently a bit slow when I open those 20-30MB PS files, but then I don't do it so often because I'm not pro. Unless you're constantly opening and closing these files, it's not that crucial to have a Super Computer on your desktop. You just need something workable. I find that there is too much hype over the CPU speed. 2 Core, 4 Core... well they help, but only so much. Your system will only run as fast as the weakest link... and that's usually the HDD. Hence, RAID0, RAID0+1 or RAID5 would really help. Having enough RAM is also important else the the system will scribe onto the HDD (which is the weakest link).
    You obviously don't use very many filters. And PS doesn't open instantaneously just because you have superfast ram.

    And to be honest, I wouldn't use Raid0 unless i was really seriously into AV editting, and perhaps then even only as a scratch disk. The risk of data loss is unacceptable, in my eyes.

    If you set up your PC properly, it will run efficiently. My home PC is faster than my office PC, even though my office PC is much newer.
    I think this is more of a problem of the office PC setup... erh. being pathetic.

  5. #85

    Default Re: Recommendation for new PC

    Quote Originally Posted by dnaxe View Post
    You obviously don't use very many filters. And PS doesn't open instantaneously just because you have superfast ram.

    And to be honest, I wouldn't use Raid0 unless i was really seriously into AV editting, and perhaps then even only as a scratch disk. The risk of data loss is unacceptable, in my eyes.



    I think this is more of a problem of the office PC setup... erh. being pathetic.
    Oh... believe u me. I use plenty filters, masks and layers... Just maybe not as much as you.
    Also, once you have moved on to Raid0 (or the slower and safer Raid5), there will be no turning back. It really speeds up the workflow by quite a fair bit.

    As for the risk of data loss... it will be exactly 2x the risk with RAID0. I think 1x the risk of data loss is not acceptable, what more 2x the risk? That's why I backup. If you are too lazy to backup, then I suggest Raid5 or Raid0+1, which is effectively backup-on-the-go. But I won't agree that doing without RAID means you don't need to backup. I use Raid0, and I backup regularly. Most of my working files are backed up on an external HDD. I also burn those files I intend to keep for long term on DVDs.

    Yes, I agree that superfast RAM won't make everything instantaneous... but neither does superfast CPU. My point is, you're only as fast as your weakest link.

    My office PC setup is one of those machines from one of those names lor... Quite pathetic. Actually, a 3-year-old Mac is also quite pathetic.... which is exactly my point.
    Last edited by nottipiglet; 16th April 2007 at 04:03 PM.

  6. #86

    Default Re: Recommendation for new PC

    Quote Originally Posted by dnaxe View Post
    Choosing a PC for upgradability if the relevant person lacks the (interest/knowhow) in to upgrade.

    Plenty of people don't upgrade anything, and don't see the need to. The consumer mac desktops are also pretty small, which is an advantage.



    Erh. AMD's recent performance in this area has been abysmal - Socket 754? Socket 939? Socket AM2? AM2+?

    I have a 2.5 year old A64, and no upgrade path (754). Of course I knew that when I bought it, but.

    For AV applications, generally intel has always been equivalent or better (FWIR) even during the dark days of the P4. Right now AMD is becoming a little more competitive again (for general computing) because of their pretty drastic price cuts, but intel is next due to cut their prices on April 22, and unless there are further AMD price cuts at that point it's hard to recommend AMD. (And.. if I were buying now, I would wait for the april 22nd cuts to filter to Singapore - and buy a 6320, 6420 or 6600, depending on whether overclocking will be done)
    I agree that choosing a PC for upgradability is not for everyone. It's for a certain group of people like me.

    I also agree that AMD has been switching their sockets a lot recently. They have been very good in the past. The K7 was around for ages when Intel was being fickle. Then there was the Socket-A, which was around for ages again. After that, I don't know what happened to them. I built one PC with the Socket 939 for my wife, which is at the end of its upgrade path now, and it's only 2 years old. A bit sad. I am keeping a close eye on how the 2 boys change their sockets as this is an important point for consideration. However, AMD has been good to me for a long time, so they still have more brownie points in my books as far as sockets are concerned.

    Right now, AMD prices are more competitive, but performance is lacking. So, if I were to build a PC today, I would still choose AMD because I never build the best PC money can buy... since that will mean spending more money than I care to... with only marginal improvement in overall performance. If Intel cuts their prices, I may consider them... but so far, AMD seems to have an answer to Intel's challenges as far as prices are concerned. So, I usually wait for the answer.

    Lastly, I never overclock my PCs. I just buy the next chip if I want a faster PC. Overclocking takes too much time. You have to monitor its stability etc... I want my PCs to serve me, and not the other way round (at least not too much).

  7. #87
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    Default Re: Recommendation for new PC

    I was checking out the Intel E6600 prices yesterday and was told by a shop to hold my purchase at least until the end of this month when Intel is expected to lower the prices of CPUs across the board. Is there any truth in this?

  8. #88

    Default Re: Recommendation for new PC

    Quote Originally Posted by David Chin View Post
    I was checking out the Intel E6600 prices yesterday and was told by a shop to hold my purchase at least until the end of this month when Intel is expected to lower the prices of CPUs across the board. Is there any truth in this?
    I believe him... After that, AMD will drop prices too... This price war is good for all of us.

  9. #89

    Default Re: Recommendation for new PC

    Quote Originally Posted by David Chin View Post
    I was checking out the Intel E6600 prices yesterday and was told by a shop to hold my purchase at least until the end of this month when Intel is expected to lower the prices of CPUs across the board. Is there any truth in this?
    As i said in the post above, intel price cuts are to appear on 22nd april.

  10. #90

    Default Re: Recommendation for new PC

    My office computer is also from a standard vendor, but it flies...

    Quote Originally Posted by nottipiglet View Post
    Right now, AMD prices are more competitive, but performance is lacking. So, if I were to build a PC today, I would still choose AMD because I never build the best PC money can buy... since that will mean spending more money than I care to... with only marginal improvement in overall performance. If Intel cuts their prices, I may consider them... but so far, AMD seems to have an answer to Intel's challenges as far as prices are concerned. So, I usually wait for the answer.
    haha. fair enough. AMD cut their prices recently, and everything up to the x5200 on the latest price lists is cheaper than any C2D, so it's actually not a horrible buy. I think the x5200 is probably faster than the cheapest c2d for most loads.

    Of course, that's if you don't overclock... OP actually might not overclock, so for a purchase which must happen before 22nd april this is perhaps a good option.

    Lastly, I never overclock my PCs. I just buy the next chip if I want a faster PC. Overclocking takes too much time. You have to monitor its stability etc... I want my PCs to serve me, and not the other way round (at least not too much).
    Of course you're free not to overclock, but I would argue that if you're sufficiently technically proficient to upgrade, there is no reason not to overclock an intel c2D processor at this point.

    You get at least a 30% boost in performance, and the only thing you need to make sure of is that your ram is reasonable (which you want to do anyway).

  11. #91

    Default Re: Recommendation for new PC

    Quote Originally Posted by dnaxe View Post
    My office computer is also from a standard vendor, but it flies...


    You get at least a 30% boost in performance, and the only thing you need to make sure of is that your ram is reasonable (which you want to do anyway).
    Your office's IT policy is probably better than mine. Mine has so much of these IT security software in it... it's practically crawling. Plus they have a 4-year renewal policy.

    30% is a lot... But I think I will resist... because long term stability is important to me.

  12. #92

    Default Re: Recommendation for new PC

    A Raid 1 is a expensive setup. You have to buy the similar capacity to build a Raid 1.

    You may want to try using Ghost 10.0 and build a backup.

  13. #93
    Member Parka's Avatar
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    Default Re: Recommendation for new PC

    Quote Originally Posted by nottipiglet View Post
    Your office's IT policy is probably better than mine. Mine has so much of these IT security software in it... it's practically crawling. Plus they have a 4-year renewal policy.

    30% is a lot... But I think I will resist... because long term stability is important to me.
    I don't know why but computers those big PC companies sell to businesses are almost crash proof. I'm pretty surprised that after pushing my computer hard but not overclocking, it hasn't crashed. Only the applications crashed. Even in NTU, I don't remember the OS crashing.

    But somehow, it's the consumer computers that always have problem. I wander what they put inside those businesses' computer.

  14. #94
    Member Parka's Avatar
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    Default Re: Recommendation for new PC

    Just today, I had Illustrator crashed 2 times on me on WinXP. First time, the application went 'berserk' and saved a corrupted file. Second time, it just crashed without asking for permission.

    I am so so relieved to have backup my current working files every time. So so relieved.

  15. #95
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    Default Re: Recommendation for new PC

    Here are the parts and their functions, as far as I know:

    Harddisk - The faster it is, the faster your application will start up, the faster you can open/save/copy your files.

    RAM - The more you have, the more applications you can open without each of them lagging when using them. Essential for Photoshop since every file opened from the harddisk will load into the RAM. After which, all the history state, filters, layers and all those task you do without Ctrl+S are saved inside RAM. If you don't have enough RAM, you'll drop back to using your harddisk as 'RAM' or more correctly termed Scratch Disk. You know the Alt+Tab you like to use to switch between applications? If there's lack of responsiveness, you're lack of ram.

    Processor - Basically calculates and performs the task. E.g. Applying filter, changing colour mode.

    Graphics card - Controls how the graphics display on screen. Not as important as the three above.

  16. #96

    Default Re: Recommendation for new PC

    Quote Originally Posted by Parka View Post
    I don't know why but computers those big PC companies sell to businesses are almost crash proof. I'm pretty surprised that after pushing my computer hard but not overclocking, it hasn't crashed. Only the applications crashed. Even in NTU, I don't remember the OS crashing.

    But somehow, it's the consumer computers that always have problem. I wander what they put inside those businesses' computer.
    Better quality parts, generally.

    Usually slower but more reliable.

    This is more true at the beginning of a tech cycle, and less true at the middle and end. I'd say that right now we're middle/end of the C2D and X2 tech cycles, so even enthusiast parts are pretty stable.

    ---

    nottipiglet:

    The recent AMD price cuts have had an interesting effect:

    http://www.xbitlabs.com/articles/cpu...roundup_8.html

    I think that's generally true for the Singapore market too (i.e. until you get to the E6600, the AMD X2 processors have generally better price/performance.)

  17. #97

    Default Re: Recommendation for new PC

    Quote Originally Posted by dnaxe View Post
    Better quality parts, generally.

    Usually slower but more reliable.

    This is more true at the beginning of a tech cycle, and less true at the middle and end. I'd say that right now we're middle/end of the C2D and X2 tech cycles, so even enthusiast parts are pretty stable.

    ---

    nottipiglet:

    The recent AMD price cuts have had an interesting effect:

    http://www.xbitlabs.com/articles/cpu...roundup_8.html

    I think that's generally true for the Singapore market too (i.e. until you get to the E6600, the AMD X2 processors have generally better price/performance.)

    Very good article.

    I used to work at Seagate as a temp in my youth. I learnt that not all HDDs are made the same. Even though the HDDs passed QC, there are those that are better grades. For example, those media that have failed the QC the 1st time are sent back for re-polishing. After they come back, they may pass QC, but then they would be lower grade. Needless to say, lower grades mean higher chance of failure.

    So... my guess is, those OEM manufacturers with better relatiohship with manufacturers will get the better parts. So, their PCs are less prone to failure in their 4-5 year lifespan. These large PC companies can fail if their PCs breakdown all the time. Remember the likes of IPC and Gateway? Warranty repairs cost a lot of money. The manpower cost alone can kill the company. So, it's important to design the product to be stable, at the expense of speed.

    So... parts at Sim Lim may not be as good as those that the OEM manufacturers get. The worst parts go to staff who purchase at staff pricing.

    Take a look at the pricing for Dell. If you opt for fancy configurations like RAID, etc... their prices will spike up. My guess is, these fancy configurations increase the cost of breakdown and hence warranty repair has to be factored into the pricing.

  18. #98

    Default Re: Recommendation for new PC

    Quote Originally Posted by dorts View Post
    Agreed. But a C2D 6600 will run great even without OCing. And I feel 8GB is overkill. Even 4GB seems a lot too. I feel 2GB of RAM is enough.
    2GB RAM is more than enough unless you are running 64 bit OS right?

    As I heard if you are using 4GB RAM on the normal OS, your RAM usage is only cap at 3GB plus?

    Can anyone verify?

  19. #99
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    Default Re: Recommendation for new PC

    Quote Originally Posted by Godzilla Invades View Post
    2GB RAM is more than enough unless you are running 64 bit OS right?

    As I heard if you are using 4GB RAM on the normal OS, your RAM usage is only cap at 3GB plus?

    Can anyone verify?
    check out this article : http://www.codinghorror.com/blog/archives/000811.html

  20. #100
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    Default Re: Recommendation for new PC

    seems that the price cuts are here for INTEL

    anyone knows where i can read up on instructions how to do a RAID and Overclocking?


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