Question on B&S - who is first to get item? Post in B&S thread or SMS?

[daydreamz]

Hi there and hopefully someone from Clubsnap Admin or Moderator too. I have a situation here that i want to understand a bit better and know the interpretation of the rules exactly.

Say a person puts an item up for sale in B&S at a price and leaves his handphone number behind in the thread too. However, no indication has been given in the thread whether he prefers offers via SMS or that he cannot check the thread regularly to update on offers.

Now say person X posts in his thread within 30minutes of his posting his item and offers him the selling price. Deal done? Logical ain't it??

However, upon contacting the seller later he mentions that he has received an offer by SMS which he has agreed to sell the item to that person who sent the SMS.

Fact #1 - SMS came later than offer on his B&S post. Except that he has not seen his thread and the offer on the thread. This is all happening in a few hours only and not even days apart. Person who posted first did have access to a handphone so instead he used the primary medium which is the B&S on CS to post his offer & interest to buy the item. This should take clear priority over other contact points like email, sms etc.

Fact #2 - This is CS, an honorable, friendly, trustworthy internet forum. Your item is put for sale on B&S, and sellers use this facility to change, upgrade, sell, buy etc etc new equipment so we should first respect this forum as the primary one. Should it not be then that the first post on sellers B&S get priority of purchase if all things standing the same like price etc. Although seller has committed to SMS offer, he should inform the person who sent the SMS that there was a prior offer on his B&S which he had not seen when the SMS confirmation to the SMS offer was given?

Over to friends and admin and mod for your esteemed opinions please....

Thanks and have a nice day everyone!

[StreetShooter]

I would think that basically the seller gets to decide whom he wants to sell his item to. There are many other factors to be considered apart from who made the first bid. Whether the seller knows the buyer personally, payment and collection terms, price.

If you want to clinch the sale, outbid the other buyer, or offer to self-collect.

In the end, the deal isn't done until money and the item changes hands. Not when a bid has been made.

[daydreamz]

Hi StreetShooter,

Deal shd not depend on personal preferences of seller like him knowing the person etc!? Disagree with you there. Every person has a neutral & fair chance, irrespective of color, race, creed and personal details/relations.

Like I said everything is the same here, the price, both are on self collect basis, cash terms etc etc. Both have reached the BNP of the seller and therefore also not right to get into a bidding war now over the item, also not right for the seller to encourage that. He had a BNP and he should respect that and stop the bids at that to offer the item to the first offer that reached the BNP.

Question is which offer takes precedence? SMS or the first post on the B&S thread itself. The seller acknowledges that the SMS offer came after the posting on the thread which he did not see, in which case he committed to the SMS offer. But should not CS be the primary medium & forum to supercede any later SMS offers?

Cheers.

[zcf]

This is not a fair world, even in CLubSNAP here. Before the seller receive any money or pass the item to the buyer, it's still the seller's item, he can withdraw, selling higher etc as the item still belong to him, it's the seller choice, he can even lie that the item just spoilt, damage, lost etc and sell to another person with higher bid. And what can the buyer do? It all down to how much the seller honour the deal or the rules he set.

Unless both all buyers and seller have agree and write/form a contract or certain rules between them, then there may be a legal binding. But here in ClubSNAP, who would want to go through that?

[lightning]

I would say everything depends on the seller. I can bid $10 and another bid $1000. But Seller likes me more and decide to sell me at $10. Can the other person make any noise? Nope! Cos the product/goods belongs to the seller, and he has every right in deciding who he want to sell to, and at what price!

Fair Play does not exists actually.

[wind30]

ya lor I agree with everyone else here except the thread-starter.

The seller can decide who he wants to sell to. Aiyo he owes you nothing, why must he sell to you? He not happy, sell to his auntie also can what.

Anyway with regards to your scenario, if you want the deal, SMS or CALL. posting in the forum is the SLOWEST way. You must understand the seller, if he must check the internet b4 agreeing to a deal through sms... why bother putting down his number. If he negotiate with sms guy for like 10 smses and finally close the deal, and some smart guy comes along and say, " hey I post in your thread earlier. Go and reject the sms guy and sell to me." If me, I also would not sell to you.

[dominator]

CS, an honorable, friendly, trustworthy internet forum or not. Still the right is with the seller.
I can meet up a buyer and decide not to sell him if I do not like his face.
I can also give it free to buyer if I like.

[daydreamz]

Thanks to all for your opinions, I am open to hearing you all out so welcome the openess and candid nature of your comments.

I totally disagree with a few of the above comments:

A) There is honor in clubsnap and I have personally seen it having bid, bought and traded with a few of fellow CS'ers here. What i liked about this forum (even tho am a newbie) is that each person and each thread has a sense of real fair play. There were hardly any of those type of incidences that some of you mention above, i.e. seller chooses to sell item at $10 instead of a $1000 bid, sellers I have seen have excercised the utmost dignity in the B&S forums. To all those sellers I salute YOU!! I even came across a few sellers who got a higher bid but had already reserved their items, they then posted to the higher bidder in the forum that deal was on hold pending deal with person who had met BNP, and the item was reserved. So please gents & ladies...there is great honor amongst most fellow CS'ers here!

B) Yes, SMS is faster in which case you must clearly state in the thread that your preferred mode of dealing is via SMS. This was not the case. In my opinion, if you have chosen to use the CS internet based forum / B&S, then you should respect offers/posts on that first...CS posts should take first priority in all due fairness to some of us who use this forum. Also as a seller you have chosen to use this service, so should you not accord responses on this first priority.

Apologies, it's a difference of opinion here only and interpretation of B&S forum etiquette which some of us chose to follow & respect. I will maintain my current position and will only agree if CS mod or admin advise me on the contrary...their opinions are the only ones that may over rule mine.

Cheers guys and once again, this is a fantastic forum comprising of some wonderful people...let's all be model users and maintain the high standards of CS!! (i rate it light years of yahoo auctions, ebay etc etc...which i use regularly for other products)

Thanks to all for your comments/feedback on this, keep it coming...

[zcf]

Originally Posted by daydreamz A) There is honor in clubsnap and I have personally seen it having bid, bought and traded with a few of fellow CS'ers here. What i liked about this forum (even tho am a newbie) is that each person and each thread has a sense of real fair play. There were hardly any of those type of incidences that some of you mention above, i.e. seller chooses to sell item at $10 instead of a $1000 bid, sellers I have seen have excercised the utmost dignity in the B&S forums. To all those sellers I salute YOU!! I even came across a few sellers who got a higher bid but had already reserved their items, they then posted to the higher bidder in the forum that deal was on hold pending deal with person who had met BNP, and the item was reserved. So please gents & ladies...there is great honor amongst most fellow CS'ers here!

Up for these sellers who honour their deal, I have met a few, and I prefer to be one also.

But I also have met other seller which don't even show up after agree on meeting place and pricing. Then lose in thin air.

Originally Posted by daydreamz B) Yes, SMS is faster in which case you must clearly state in the thread that your preferred mode of dealing is via SMS. This was not the case. In my opinion, if you have chosen to use the CS internet based forum / B&S, then you should respect offers/posts on that first...CS posts should take first priority in all due fairness to some of us who use this forum. Also as a seller you have chosen to use this service, so should you not accord responses on this first priority.

some seller do prefer the convinience of SMS than checking CS posting all the time though

[germ_boi]

I feel that the seller has a right as to who he wants to sell his item to. It doesnt matter whether he sells it to the person who bidded for it first or whatever, it is up to the seller who he wants to sell to.

[michhy]

bad scenarios - item put up for sale but deal never close for ages... keep waiting for the next higher bid... faint lar for buyers (unless buyers are pardoned if to cancel their bids when they see something else cheaper)

[tanjonhan]

Ok, imagine you are the seller, and someone sms you and say he is willing to meet your buy now price, will you tell the seller, "oh wait first,i will get back to you after i go online and check my clubsnap..."

wouldn't that turn the buyer off?isn't it common sense that the buyer will commit to the first deal he is comfortable with?

by the way, what stopped you from smsing the person?its just one sms only, if you really wanted it intially, you would have smsed him already right?lesson learnt ya?

[daydreamz]

Hi tanjonhan, i did put myself in the seller shoes before posting this thread to clarify from other fellow CS'ers and CS admin/mod who can comment on it too as per B&S etiquette/guidelines.

To answer you, if what you mention happened and I did realise later after I saw my thread that actually an offer on the thread was made before the SMS, then in that case I would give priority to the thread offer over SMS. And I would explain it to the SMS offer and expect them to also understand, it's fair that thread should supercede SMS. Mind you we're not talking of a 1-2days gap here, we're talking a few hours only...so it's a fact that TS does see his thread a few times a day and that it is clearly not too late to explain to the SMS offer.

Look at it this way -

fact#1 is that thread offer has indeed preceeded SMS offer, it came in earlier and all things being same thread should be given priority.

fact#2 is that TS has not specified in his thread that offers should be made by SMS since he will not be able to monitor thread offers. Whereas many B&S thread sellers specify that and then in that case I totally concede that SMS offer is the one to get the item.

As re. your last query, hmmmm your tone is rather judgemental but no worries I will answer you anyways. As i had already mentioned in my first post in this thread, I did not have access to a handphone or land line then to sms/call, so chose to offer in the thread instead which to me was fair since the TS had not indicated that he wanted SMS offers only.

Cheers,

Originally Posted by tanjonhan Ok, imagine you are the seller, and someone sms you and say he is willing to meet your buy now price, will you tell the seller, "oh wait first,i will get back to you after i go online and check my clubsnap..." wouldn't that turn the buyer off?isn't it common sense that the buyer will commit to the first deal he is comfortable with? by the way, what stopped you from smsing the person?its just one sms only, if you really wanted it intially, you would have smsed him already right?lesson learnt ya?

[wind30]

Originally Posted by dominator CS, an honorable, friendly, trustworthy internet forum or not. Still the right is with the seller. I can meet up a buyer and decide not to sell him if I do not like his face. I can also give it free to buyer if I like.

I totally disagree with this. Remind me not to buy anything from you in the future. Waste people time.

U can refuse to the offer to meet up. But ONCE people meet up, PLEASE do it with sincerity and don't back away from the deal unless there are some good reason.

[wind30]

Originally Posted by daydreamz fact#2 is that TS has not specified in his thread that offers should be made by SMS since he will not be able to monitor thread offers. Whereas many B&S thread sellers specify that and then in that case I totally concede that SMS offer is the one to get the item.

aiya, I thought this is commonly understood by MOST people... If everything must specify, might as well take a law class first before posting.

Common sense will tell you if you want the deal fast, SMS/CALL. people carry their HP all day but not their laptops/PC.

[pai]

yes, a deal is a deal. but just because you posted on his thread doesn't make it a deal. all you did was make an offer.

one more vote for "up to the seller"

threadstarter, are you asking for our opinion, or trying to convince everyone that you've been wronged? cos there seems to be pretty strong majority saying that the seller did nothing wrong in your scenario

[ndroo]

Originally Posted by tanjonhan Ok, imagine you are the seller, and someone sms you and say he is willing to meet your buy now price, will you tell the seller, "oh wait first,i will get back to you after i go online and check my clubsnap..."

I usually won't reply the SMS until I check my PM. Will sell to the first person who meets the buy now price, be it thru SMS or PM.

[daydreamz]

In that case neither myself nor SMS person had a deal!?? both made offers only albeit through different mediums. So what are you trying to prove by that point of yours!??

On the last point I am definitely looking for opinions AND hopefully a comment from a CS moderator or admin. Why have all these complex B&S guidelines then if buyers and sellers can all become cowboys and do their own thing. I am not trying to convince anyone that I have been wronged, just want to understand the correct interpretation here of forum guidelines and more so the right forum etiquette.

I do agree with you that majority in my thread are saying to the contrary to what I felt was the wrong thing. Am still waiting for the really exemplary B&S users to come in and comment, which as per my experience there are many. Although a few in my thread are also saying otherwise, and seem to be the kind of sellers it'd be a pleasure to deal with (ndroo, zcf, michhy....others wanna join the list too!??)

Both buyers and sellers deserve equal respect and deals should not depend on sellers mood swings just because it is their item...come on...buyer is paying hard cash $$$ for it and not expecting any favors to be accorded. We can all make dealings more pleasant here cant we by being nice and courteous and helpful...that to me is the CS spirit. Anyways....

Originally Posted by pai yes, a deal is a deal. but just because you posted on his thread doesn't make it a deal. all you did was make an offer. one more vote for "up to the seller" threadstarter, are you asking for our opinion, or trying to convince everyone that you've been wronged? cos there seems to be pretty strong majority saying that the seller did nothing wrong in your scenario

[pokiemon]

Sorry TS. I hate to say this but you are living in your own bubble.

The harsh reality is in today's world, the FASTEST MODE OF COMMUNICATION wins. And the mode the seller chooses to accept doesn't make him any less ethical either. Some people may choose to call, SMS or PM. It is all about sealing the deal in the most efficient manner. Also it depends on how badly you want something too.

[dkw]

Originally Posted by daydreamz In that case neither myself nor SMS person had a deal!?? both made offers only albeit through different mediums. So what are you trying to prove by that point of yours!?? On the last point I am definitely looking for opinions AND hopefully a comment from a CS moderator or admin. Why have all these complex B&S guidelines then if buyers and sellers can all become cowboys and do their own thing. I am not trying to convince anyone that I have been wronged, just want to understand the correct interpretation here of forum guidelines and more so the right forum etiquette. I do agree with you that majority in my thread are saying to the contrary to what I felt was the wrong thing. Am still waiting for the really exemplary B&S users to come in and comment, which as per my experience there are many. Although a few in my thread are also saying otherwise, and seem to be the kind of sellers it'd be a pleasure to deal with (ndroo, zcf, michhy....others wanna join the list too!??) Both buyers and sellers deserve equal respect and deals should not depend on sellers mood swings just because it is their item...come on...buyer is paying hard cash $$$ for it and not expecting any favors to be accorded. We can all make dealings more pleasant here cant we by being nice and courteous and helpful...that to me is the CS spirit. Anyways....

First of all let me say you are splitting hairs and this is really much ado about nothing. Is this rare item you are bidding for which will never appear again? Get over it and wait for the next one. What loss have you suffered? How has the seller wronged you? Did he mis-represent the item and cheated you of money? Your cash is still in your pocket isn't it?

Next, as many people are trying to tell you here, it is entirely the prerogative of the seller how and who he wants to sell the item to. Was he a little sloppy in managing the process? Possibly, but is that a crime? So he receives a SMS giving him the offer he wants. He decides to go with the offer in hand rather than check on the internet. He forgoes the chance to perhaps check for an even better offer that may have come through the bidding on his thread. Why is that a problem? A bird in hand, yes?

Last, B&S etiquette. You know full well there will be a lag on the internet. Sellers may seek quicker means of closing a deal, either SMS or phone. Are you suggesting that all deals initiated here but closed outside of this forum be banned then? Entirely ridiculous, yes?

This is a small informal forum, and the B&S works well on an honour system. Lets not gum up the place with too much process.