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Thread: Do you still use ND grad?

  1. #21
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    Default Re: Do you still use ND grad?

    Quote Originally Posted by Adelfin View Post
    Thanks! what size do u use? the P or Z-PRO?.. i'll prob just use my hand then.. and over HERE it says u can use their CPL simultaneously by putting it in the slot nearest to the lens.. although i dunno how that works...
    not very sure for CPL cos I use the normal screw type. as for size, Im using P series (I think tianya only come in P equiv )

  2. #22

    Default Re: Do you still use ND grad?

    Quote Originally Posted by Adelfin View Post
    if u use such filter systems how do u use the CPL and lens hoods? esp for wide angle lenses u got to have the hoods.. i've been looking at such systems coz it's much cheaper but i don't want to have to get the huge ugly hoods that are available...

    and what sizes do u guys use? i planning to get a canon 10-22mm.. and according to cokin website it's recommended to get the X-Pro series (for 15mm equivalent) and it's HUGE!
    The 10-22 will vignette at 10mm with even a non-slim filter. It does however, work with the cokin P-system IF u use the slim holder and not use any others filters on the lens (ie, the cokin is the only thing attached to the lens). And no, u can't use the normal hood with these systems. CPL, you can even use the screw-in types in btw the lens and the cokin, provided your lens won't vignette. FF lenses on crop bodies are great for these.

  3. #23
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    Default Re: Do you still use ND grad?

    HDR pictures have a 'surreal' feel which some audience might find attractive. Whereas ND grads will yield pictures that are more true-to-life. I've never done HDR before and use an ND grad to control exposure of part of the scene.

    Important consideration is whether the final image is going to be submitted for a competition or not. Most competitions do not accept composite images and I believe HDR also constitutes such a photo.

  4. #24

    Default Re: Do you still use ND grad?

    Quote Originally Posted by Adelfin View Post
    if u use such filter systems how do u use the CPL and lens hoods? esp for wide angle lenses u got to have the hoods.. i've been looking at such systems coz it's much cheaper but i don't want to have to get the huge ugly hoods that are available...

    and what sizes do u guys use? i planning to get a canon 10-22mm.. and according to cokin website it's recommended to get the X-Pro series (for 15mm equivalent) and it's HUGE!

    I just hand hold it with lens like 15mmFE, 12-24, 15-30, 10-22..

  5. #25

    Default Re: Do you still use ND grad?

    HDR pictures have a 'surreal' feel which some audience might find attractive. Whereas ND grads will yield pictures that are more true-to-life. I've never done HDR before and use an ND grad to control exposure of part of the scene.

    Important consideration is whether the final image is going to be submitted for a competition or not. Most competitions do not accept composite images and I believe HDR also constitutes such a photo.
    Interesting... Maybe a linear blend of 2 exposures would make the composite image natural?

    Anyway, do you guys keep a range of ND grads like ND2,4,8? If i were to get one, what would be a recommended grade?

  6. #26

    Default Re: Do you still use ND grad?

    Quote Originally Posted by ahsosl1e8 View Post
    Interesting... Maybe a linear blend of 2 exposures would make the composite image natural?

    Anyway, do you guys keep a range of ND grads like ND2,4,8? If i were to get one, what would be a recommended grade?
    I have a GND 3.3 and GND8.
    For Singapore, I use the GND8 more.

  7. #27
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    Default Re: Do you still use ND grad?

    Quote Originally Posted by ahsosl1e8 View Post
    Interesting... Maybe a linear blend of 2 exposures would make the composite image natural?

    Anyway, do you guys keep a range of ND grads like ND2,4,8? If i were to get one, what would be a recommended grade?
    went to buy the 121 L, M, S, then the grad blue b2 soft as well...
    Logging Off. "You have 2,631 messages stored, of a total 400 allowed." don't PM me.

  8. #28
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    Default Re: Do you still use ND grad?

    Quote Originally Posted by fWord View Post
    HDR pictures have a 'surreal' feel which some audience might find attractive. Whereas ND grads will yield pictures that are more true-to-life. I've never done HDR before and use an ND grad to control exposure of part of the scene.

    Important consideration is whether the final image is going to be submitted for a competition or not. Most competitions do not accept composite images and I believe HDR also constitutes such a photo.
    actually if done correct they give pretty natural images... but most people now prefer the more "processed" surreal look.

  9. #29
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    Default Re: Do you still use ND grad?

    Quote Originally Posted by XC Pictorial View Post
    I just hand hold it with lens like 15mmFE, 12-24, 15-30, 10-22..
    Handhold? It can work on FE meh? It gives 180 view.

  10. #30

    Default Re: Do you still use ND grad?

    Quote Originally Posted by ExplorerZ View Post
    actually if done correct they give pretty natural images...
    I suppose you mean "correct" ..

    And of course HDR is more natural than just out of cam, for the sensor has less dynamic range than the eye.

    HDR is just another tool in digital photography as cross processing or solarisation were for film. And I never see those latter techniques as art but just chemistry purposely used wrong, just as I see HDR abused in digital photography.

    But I have this constantly nagging question to ask all here.

    From a quick scan of answers, most replies to the question, "Should I use filters?" seems to say, "I dunno. This is what I have done with all my life, and I am staying with the habit."

    That's not really an answer, is it?

    The real question, from a digital photography perspective, is what do you lose, if any, if you do, for example, blending in PS versus using an ND? Is there not a place for ND even with PS, ie a PSed ND picture is even better or different - or more "natural" if you prefer - than one captured without ND? The same question for HDR.

    Now immediately I can think that with ND you increase the dynamic range of the filtered areas, ie there are more levels of data capture where previously it is confined to a narrower band. And with more data surely I can do more and better manipulation. But these are my thoughts. I have no experience of it.

    Anyone any other thoughts or analysis? or even experimented with these questions?

  11. #31

    Default Re: Do you still use ND grad?

    Neutral Density filters can help maintain shutter speeds below your camera's flash sync limit.
    Last edited by kongping; 31st March 2007 at 06:21 PM.

  12. #32

    Default Re: Do you still use ND grad?

    oh... thought of another application, but not sure if it's useful.

    when using shutter priority for panning shots, you won't have to go to very small apertures when selecting speeds like say 1/60s (since most panning shots are done in daylight).

    as to whether aperture control is important while executing a pan shot, that i have no idea.

  13. #33
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    Default Re: Do you still use ND grad?

    Quote Originally Posted by kongping View Post
    oh... thought of another application, but not sure if it's useful.

    when using shutter priority for panning shots, you won't have to go to very small apertures when selecting speeds like say 1/60s (since most panning shots are done in daylight).

    as to whether aperture control is important while executing a pan shot, that i have no idea.
    I believe this thread is more on GND rather than ND.

  14. #34
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    Default Re: Do you still use ND grad?

    Quote Originally Posted by espion View Post
    I suppose you mean "correct" ..

    And of course HDR is more natural than just out of cam, for the sensor has less dynamic range than the eye.

    HDR is just another tool in digital photography as cross processing or solarisation were for film. And I never see those latter techniques as art but just chemistry purposely used wrong, just as I see HDR abused in digital photography.

    But I have this constantly nagging question to ask all here.

    From a quick scan of answers, most replies to the question, "Should I use filters?" seems to say, "I dunno. This is what I have done with all my life, and I am staying with the habit."

    That's not really an answer, is it?

    The real question, from a digital photography perspective, is what do you lose, if any, if you do, for example, blending in PS versus using an ND? Is there not a place for ND even with PS, ie a PSed ND picture is even better or different - or more "natural" if you prefer - than one captured without ND? The same question for HDR.

    Now immediately I can think that with ND you increase the dynamic range of the filtered areas, ie there are more levels of data capture where previously it is confined to a narrower band. And with more data surely I can do more and better manipulation. But these are my thoughts. I have no experience of it.

    Anyone any other thoughts or analysis? or even experimented with these questions?
    I don't know what you mean at all.
    Last edited by XiaoMiaoWang; 31st March 2007 at 10:15 PM.

  15. #35

    Default Re: Do you still use ND grad?

    For both digital and film, I belong to the camp that consider ND and GND as essential filters to have in one's toolkit.

    IMHO, an ND is particularly important when one wants low shutter speeds in very strong light, when even lowering of ISO or low ISO film is not enough. One can get away with using a polarizer too, but sometimes the 2 stop loss still isn't enough.

    As for GND, I also find it particularly important in landscape photography. Sunsets, sunrise, other highly varied contrast situations, even in portraits with backgrounds included, a GND filter is certainly a great tool to have. This includes the Reverse GND made by Singh-Ray too.

    Without a GND, PP won't be able to rescue the detail lost from over or underexposed parts, even with burning and dodging, although it can cover these up nicely, like with Nik software's very good Grad ND "filters", which can do a great job for minor corrections ...

    One might want to enhance the effect further of a photograph that has been shot with a GND, and in this sense, the use of both GND and PP software come together as good tools.

    However, high quality filters are necessary to get the most out of it ... I haven't tried Cokin, but from magazine comparisons with Lee or Singh-Ray, it was unnatural, unless one intended to have it that way. The affordable Cokin P or Z-Pro holders are used with Singh-Ray filters, though.

    Using filters surely take up more time, but one will be rewarded well. With a rangefinder, however, it's tough to use a GND, so I don't use one on mine (although I wish I could).


    .

  16. #36

    Default Re: Do you still use ND grad?

    Yes
    It is the camera, not the photographer.
    my flickr - adamloh.com

  17. #37

    Default Re: Do you still use ND grad?

    I think the GND is great to use. At least you can see the effects from your camera right after you use it instead of waiting to post process in photoshop when you get home.

    I have a question to those who have been using GND. I am considering getting a filter holder (I have been hand holding mine for a long time - no doubt it wokrs), I looked at the cokin holders vs the Tianya ones. I was told that they are both compatiable. Is this true? I will be using the filter on my 10-22mm lens (wide angle) so I will buy the 1 slot filter holder. The price difference between the cokin and Tianya is quite great so do you think I should just get the Tianya filter holder.

    Additionally, some people who have used both Tianya and Cokin P Filters had commented that there isn't much difference in terms of quality. Again the price difference is about S$30. Is it really true?

    The negative point for the Tianya GND filter is that it doesn't come in various spectrum - not sure if this is the correct word to use (e.g. GND2, GND 4, GND 8) cos they only have 1 GND filter.

  18. #38

    Default Re: Do you still use ND grad?

    Well, not everyone can grasp proper HDR techniques

  19. #39

    Default Re: Do you still use ND grad?

    U can get GND effects digitally. HDR is one example, but it generates a different kind of picture. Digitally simulated GND via PS is another.

    The use of GND for digital pictures comes from a slightly different considerations, namely data quality, ie GND increases the amount of data collected in the highlights which gives you scope for more aggressive processing later on.

    I have worked on non GND and GND pictures, and depending on your original data quality, can get good wide dynamic range looking pictures from both, and good enough for commercial use too.

  20. #40

    Default Re: Do you still use ND grad?

    hey, any of u guys know whether i can use a cokin holder adaptor with a tianya holder? cos i cant seem to find 52mm adaptor rings on ppcp's website. Actually, are the parts for these 2 brands exchangeable?

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