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Thread: Audiophiles, need your help!

  1. #41

    Default Re: Audiophiles, need your help!

    Quote Originally Posted by Firefox View Post
    Nope. Not out of tube amps. I build and design my own stuff (yes, I know how the players are modded as well).
    I find the modded CD63 too sluggish, too smooth and too sweet sounding. Might be great for vocals but not something I'd choose for rock/ 'eavy metal.

    His Tocatta's are fairly neutral with a touch of boost on the low end. Yes, i do know what's used for the Tocatta's as well.
    Well, not knowing what ancillaries you've used with the player I can't say why you would come to that conclusion. My findings are totally opposite and I use Krell amps with it (and they don't hide anything - warts and all). The player has been fast enough to scare the begeezus out of me on certain dynamic tracks. Granted, his preamp isn't as open or fast the Krells.

    Not trying to take a swipe at you but why would you waste good money on a high end system only to listen to heavily processed music genres like rock and heavy metal? Genres that don't generally use minimalist recording techniques or acoustic instruments. It is like a waste of money as you can get the same results from lesser equipment.

  2. #42
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    Default Re: Audiophiles, need your help!

    Quote Originally Posted by Tetrode View Post
    Well, not knowing what ancillaries you've used with the player I can't say why you would come to that conclusion. My findings are totally opposite and I use Krell amps with it (and they don't hide anything - warts and all). The player has been fast enough to scare the begeezus out of me on certain dynamic tracks. Granted, his preamp isn't as open or fast the Krells.

    Not trying to take a swipe at you but why would you waste good money on a high end system only to listen to heavily processed music genres like rock and heavy metal? Genres that don't generally use minimalist recording techniques or acoustic instruments. It is like a waste of money as you can get the same results from lesser equipment.
    Well, I do listen to mild rock and usually the older albums from some of the better studios that are processed much less with the modern day style of mixing/ mastering.
    Modern day recordings/ re-mixed/ mastered Jazz/ Classical/ Vocals is heavily processed as well so genre actually plays a minimal part in how processed the sound is.
    You can put any album mixed/ mastered in the past 10 years into a software and look at the waveform if you don't believe me. Most of them are mastered to have a fairly uniform top and much higher nominal volume as compared to tracks from albums mixed/ mastered 20 years ago.
    In fact, unless you've got a recording that's purely dual-mono (sounds are either placed on the left, right or smack middle), odds are that it was recorded on 8-track and went through as much processing as heavy metal or rock.

    I would classify the Krells as just being slightly above average for speed and dynamics. That should give you an idea of what I mean by speed.
    The aforementioned product lack the speed and dynamics I expect (particularly because it's not even tube driven). There's no sting or bite to the transients and the lower end is little muddy. And again... Way too sickly sweet-warm sound for me.
    Other players I've compared it to are the Rotel 855, 991(and AE), Pioneer PD-S904, CAD 303, Opera Consonance and Arcam Alpha 1. All of which have more speed and dynamics.

    Granted, if you actually compare his mods to the HDAM players that are unmodded by him, you'd feel that you're getting more speed and dynamics. But even this increased level is what I'd rate as fairly slow.

  3. #43

    Default Re: Audiophiles, need your help!

    Quote Originally Posted by Tetrode View Post
    Not trying to take a swipe at you but why would you waste good money on a high end system only to listen to heavily processed music genres like rock and heavy metal? Genres that don't generally use minimalist recording techniques or acoustic instruments. It is like a waste of money as you can get the same results from lesser equipment.
    I'm not a heavy metal/rock person, but I do find that some of them can sound pretty good over high end systems.

  4. #44

    Default Re: Audiophiles, need your help!

    Quote Originally Posted by Firefox View Post
    Well, I do listen to mild rock and usually the older albums from some of the better studios that are processed much less with the modern day style of mixing/ mastering.
    Modern day recordings/ re-mixed/ mastered Jazz/ Classical/ Vocals is heavily processed as well so genre actually plays a minimal part in how processed the sound is.
    You can put any album mixed/ mastered in the past 10 years into a software and look at the waveform if you don't believe me. Most of them are mastered to have a fairly uniform top and much higher nominal volume as compared to tracks from albums mixed/ mastered 20 years ago.
    In fact, unless you've got a recording that's purely dual-mono (sounds are either placed on the left, right or smack middle), odds are that it was recorded on 8-track and went through as much processing as heavy metal or rock.

    I would classify the Krells as just being slightly above average for speed and dynamics. That should give you an idea of what I mean by speed.
    The aforementioned product lack the speed and dynamics I expect (particularly because it's not even tube driven). There's no sting or bite to the transients and the lower end is little muddy. And again... Way too sickly sweet-warm sound for me.
    Other players I've compared it to are the Rotel 855, 991(and AE), Pioneer PD-S904, CAD 303, Opera Consonance and Arcam Alpha 1. All of which have more speed and dynamics.

    Granted, if you actually compare his mods to the HDAM players that are unmodded by him, you'd feel that you're getting more speed and dynamics. But even this increased level is what I'd rate as fairly slow.

    Again, I am not taking a swipe at you, but I don't think there are amps out there faster than Krells. They set the standard in terms of speed. Anything out there would be unnaturally fast.

    I love listen to rock too but IMO the majority of Heavy Metal music is just noise. A true test of a system is how accurately it reproduces acoustic instruments and vocals recorded using minimalist techniques (the likes of Opus3 recordings). Listening to anything else would be a waste of money on a high end system.

    Sure listening to rock recordings or HM will sound nicer than on a boom box system but you can achieve the same result on equipment of lower calibre like Isisaxon's A/V gear.
    Last edited by Tetrode; 12th April 2007 at 08:27 PM.

  5. #45
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    Default Re: Audiophiles, need your help!

    Quote Originally Posted by Tetrode View Post
    Again, I am not taking a swipe at you, but I don't think there are amps out there faster than Krells. They set the standard in terms of speed. Anything out there would be unnaturally fast.

    I listen to headphones mainly. And there are headphone amps and headphones combinations that can go faster than Krells where required whilst still going slow when the music IS slow.
    Yes, there are a great deal of amps out there that are pretty darn fast but they always mess up the PRAT of slower musical pieces. I don't like those much either because, as you said, they make the music sound 'unnatural'.

    I do happen to be studying audio engineering and I can tell you that be it vocals, instrumentals, jazz or rock, they all go through a lot of processing.
    That is unless you're referring to music that was mixed/ mastered prior to the introduction of DAT's. With the digital age, quite some work needs be done to fit the recordings into the dynamics limitations of digital recording.

    Even prior to this, due to recording techniques, quite some work is actually done to even vocals. Studio recording is done in anechoic chambers and with diffusers as well as well-placed microphones. So the raw recording of vocals actually sound very 'dry' and there's absolutely no air to the sound. Reverb and other effects have to be added to 'wet' the sound.

    So yes, the music that you consider to be 'purer' isn't all that pure. but you can choose to ignore what I said and just pretend. After all, what you don't know can't hurt you. I think...

  6. #46

    Default Re: Audiophiles, need your help!

    Quote Originally Posted by Firefox View Post
    I listen to headphones mainly. And there are headphone amps and headphones combinations that can go faster than Krells where required whilst still going slow when the music IS slow.
    Yes, there are a great deal of amps out there that are pretty darn fast but they always mess up the PRAT of slower musical pieces. I don't like those much either because, as you said, they make the music sound 'unnatural'.

    I do happen to be studying audio engineering and I can tell you that be it vocals, instrumentals, jazz or rock, they all go through a lot of processing.
    That is unless you're referring to music that was mixed/ mastered prior to the introduction of DAT's. With the digital age, quite some work needs be done to fit the recordings into the dynamics limitations of digital recording.

    Even prior to this, due to recording techniques, quite some work is actually done to even vocals. Studio recording is done in anechoic chambers and with diffusers as well as well-placed microphones. So the raw recording of vocals actually sound very 'dry' and there's absolutely no air to the sound. Reverb and other effects have to be added to 'wet' the sound.

    So yes, the music that you consider to be 'purer' isn't all that pure. but you can choose to ignore what I said and just pretend. After all, what you don't know can't hurt you. I think...
    Yes I understand that has to be some 'processing' but not to the extent as those of mainstream pop and rock productions. The Opus 3 uses true minimalist recording techniques and record Direct to Disk. Check them out.


    http://www.opus3records.com/phil.html

    BTW, I did do an audio engineering course too albiet one linked to a Film and TV degree.

    BTW don't listen to headphones too much - they will kill your hearing over time.
    Last edited by Tetrode; 12th April 2007 at 09:18 PM.

  7. #47
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    Default Re: Audiophiles, need your help!

    Quote Originally Posted by Tetrode View Post
    Yes I understand that has to be some 'processing' but not to the extent as those of mainstream pop and rock productions. The Opus 3 uses true minimalist recording techniques and record Direct to Disk. Check them out.


    http://www.opus3records.com/phil.html

    BTW, I did do an audio engineering course too albiet one linked to a Film and TV degree.

    BTW don't listen to headphones too much - they will kill your hearing over time.
    Headphones are fine for me.. My listening volumes are a whole lot lower than most people. Generally, about 20dB to 26dB lower than the average joe. It's also causing a lot of problems for near-field mixing since I can't mix at optimal levels.

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