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Thread: Anti-Exploitation (Discussion) Part II

  1. #1
    vince123123
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    Default Anti-Exploitation (Discussion) Part II

    I'm not sure why the original discussion by Eikin (http://forums.clubsnap.org/showthread.php?t=265960) was closed (in my view, prematurely), seeing that views were being exchanged. I am therefore starting a new thred since eikin has invited people who wish to see the discussion continue to do so.

    It will also give Streetshooter a chance to clarify his panties statement. However, I do understand it was said as a figure of speech to mean "dont get all worked up over it"; is similar to "dont get your panties in a bunch". It has nothing to do with real panties or choice of underwear, just like how "once in a blue moon" has nothing to do with colour or a celestial body.

    From my understanding, if I distill the essence, I think what eikin is trying to institute a way whereby requests for services, free or otherwise. Basic informatin such as name of compnay, details of event etc (to be determined) is mandatory.

    However the counterview is then, how much information is needed to be verified? An analogy was made to the workshops section, but notice that even the workshops section does not demand that all organisers provide verification of identities. Someone can post a workshop thread to advertise for paid shoots, and in the end, tell the model its a TFCD, or practice, or worse, charge the model for portfolio. This is not unheard of and has in fact happened before. Are we now going to institute new guidelines for workshop organisers? Is CS now a grounds for exploitation of models and photographers alike?

    Feel free to continue the discussion!
    Last edited by vince123123; 20th March 2007 at 08:41 AM.

  2. #2

    Default Re: Anti-Exploitation (Discussion) Part II

    For SM

    I did read the first post...understandably and rightfully it should not have been meant for "helping out" type jobs...thank you for pointing that out, you're a gentleman and a scholar.



    getting back to the basics, this is a photographic community, look at the upper left hand corner. it does not say photogs come here to look for jobs nor does it say cheap job offers are allowed. it says clubsnap; photographic community. it's a compilation of many things so naturally it will involve many things we like and many things we don't. wow, just like the rest of the world we live in...correct?

    if we want to verify employers, then we should verify photogs, models and organizers. we can't have it both ways. and if we do that, then we should make sure of members verification by requiring them to be certified. certify all photogs and models and certify business licenses by organizers. wait, this is getting too serious for just a forum where people from all walks are welcome correct? and if we are going to be real, in this forum we have peanut payers and we have photogs that are not as skilled as others...
    sounds like the laws of nature have already addressed this issue to me without admin assistence.

    perhaps this should be a business lesson or a character builder in how to handle ridiculous offers while remaining professional.

  3. #3

    Default Re: Anti-Exploitation (Discussion) Part II

    hi guys, please stop it, there are a lot of child labors, workers and maids and prostitutes or whatever you can name is exploited in this world. and what you photographer had lost?

    If your professionalism get exploited here then just leave this forum.

  4. #4

    Default Re: Anti-Exploitation (Discussion) Part II

    Quote Originally Posted by LENS View Post
    hi guys, please stop it, there are a lot of child labors, workers and maids and prostitutes or whatever you can name is exploited in this world. and what you photographer had lost?

    If your professionalism get exploited here then just leave this forum.

    Why ppl simply dun get it?
    Last edited by roygoh; 20th March 2007 at 10:45 AM.

  5. #5
    Senior Member
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    Default Re: Anti-Exploitation (Discussion) Part II

    Quote Originally Posted by LENS View Post
    hi guys, please stop it, there are a lot of child labors, workers and maids and prostitutes or whatever you can name is exploited in this world. and what you photographer had lost?
    Let me try to put it this way.

    Yes there are lots of child labors, workers, maids, prositiutes, etc, etc out there being exploited right this very min.
    If you know about it, are you going to just walk away and don't even try to do anything about it? If those above mentioned people who are being exploited, have a choice or an ave. to stop the exploitation, do you think they will not do anything?
    This is what we're trying to do. We feel that some poeple are coming here to try to exploite photographers here, the admins have the means to stop these people, should we not try to protect one of our own or at lease the image of CS before it become another photography forum to look for cheap and free photographers? The very least we should do is to try to educate both the photographers here and those coming here to look for photographers about what is the market practise. We don't need to set a price but we have to let them know what is the pricing structure. I'll say again, if everyone is paid, why should the photographer work for free? Why only the photographer?


    Quote Originally Posted by LENS View Post
    If your professionalism get exploited here then just leave this forum.
    1st, pro photographers are not in the least affected by this. Those clients who go for cheap and free photographer will never pay our rates and are not on our radar. Let the agencies deal with them and convince them to pay our rates.

    2nd, We're not worried about someone undercutting us. Photographers have track records and a portfolio of clients and images. If a newbie can threaten a pro's rice bowl, the "pro" better go back and relook at his portfolio and reconsider if he should still be in this line. In fact, some pro photographers are happy that newbies are taking the jobs. Let them shoot, sooner or later one of them will scr*w up the job and this will teach the client the value of engageing a paid photographer to do the job.
    * For your info, events shoot are usually not in a photographer's portfolio bag, as a pro photographer, events shoots are considered the very basic of our job and we're expected to be able to do it. In studios with full time assistance, it is the assistance who shoots the PR and event jobs. Events shots are in the personnal portfolio bag of the studio assistance, not the photographer's.

    3rd, just leave and walk away when we see something wrong? No, I don't think so. That would be a very irrespondsible act. Should we become a community where we only care about ourself, just about me, I and myself ? Walk away so long as I don't like it and keep quite so long as it don't affect me? For some maybe but I'm glad to say that for a vast many, NO.
    Last edited by yqt; 20th March 2007 at 11:48 AM.
    I get paid more shooting part time ...... damn, I should find more time to shoot part time

  6. #6
    Senior Member
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    Default Re: Anti-Exploitation (Discussion) Part II

    Quote Originally Posted by vince123123 View Post
    It will also give Streetshooter a chance to clarify his panties statement. However, I do understand it was said as a figure of speech to mean "dont get all worked up over it"; is similar to "dont get your panties in a bunch". It has nothing to do with real panties or choice of underwear, just like how "once in a blue moon" has nothing to do with colour or a celestial body.
    Yo, Vince, it been a long time since we post to each other over copyrights issue .

    Since you have been so kind as to suggest the above, let me set somethings straight.

    I know what the "panties" comments actually means. Being in the advertising industry for so long, I've come across it many times and some even much worst.

    To cut a long issue short, this is a serious disc. and he is a mod. Someone who do command some respect amounst CSer here. And for him to try to jokingly dish away a serious dicsussion, which is sparked off by him in the first place, with a remark like that directed at me........ anyway, I've put this behind me already as I just want to let him know that his comments are being taken very seriously and it's not a joke given the topic and his position. Don't matter to me if he reply or not, I'm not going to lose any sleep over it.

    Cheers
    I get paid more shooting part time ...... damn, I should find more time to shoot part time

  7. #7
    vince123123
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    Default Re: Anti-Exploitation (Discussion) Part II

    Hehe hi again Well, I was just putting forth the suggestion as it appeared to me that some people in the previous thread may not have understood the meaning of the phrase as a figure of speech.Whether it is a type of comment that should be made by a moderator - heh well, I'll leave that for the mods to comment
    Quote Originally Posted by yqt View Post
    Yo, Vince, it been a long time since we post to each other over copyrights issue .

    Since you have been so kind as to suggest the above, let me set somethings straight.

    I know what the &quotanties" comments actually means. Being in the advertising industry for so long, I've come across it many times and some even much worst.

    To cut a long issue short, this is a serious disc. and he is a mod. Someone who do command some respect amounst CSer here. And for him to try to jokingly dish away a serious dicsussion, which is sparked off by him in the first place, with a remark like that directed at me........ anyway, I've put this behind me already as I just want to let him know that his comments are being taken very seriously and it's not a joke given the topic and his position. Don't matter to me if he reply or not, I'm not going to lose any sleep over it.

    Cheers

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