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Thread: Anti-Exploitation (Discussion)

  1. #81
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    Default Re: Anti-Exploitation (Discussion)

    Quote Originally Posted by StreetShooter View Post
    Aiya don't get your panties all bunched up lah.
    You seem to have a fistish for panties.
    Sorry, for your info, I'm a man and I got a set of triplets to prove I'm a man.

    I'll try to contain myself here and ask nicely, are you getting personnal here? If you so wishes, please take this through PMs. If not please withdraw you "panties" comments. I don't take it kindly when someone suggest that I wear panties, not in a thread like this and not from you.
    I get paid more shooting part time ...... damn, I should find more time to shoot part time

  2. #82
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    Default Re: Anti-Exploitation (Discussion)

    Quote Originally Posted by zcf View Post
    Actually as an amateur/hobbysit, I don't care how much they earn and pay me nothing, if they got what I want (shooting star I admired, or some well know brand to support my portfolio/for bragging) for my own collection or portfolio, I don't mind shooting for free. And I don't see that as an exploitation. Probably because I am not a "Pro" , sure some extra/money to show their appreciation would be better.

    Whether it meet their standard or not, it's not my concern, it's caveat emptor, since they ask for free shoot/low pay shoot. If they want to ensure the quality, they should pay for the "Pro" , unless I sign a contract with them.

    OT aside, Satay really deserve to be flamed .
    I can see it from you point of view. Yes, from your personnal point of view you can even think that you're getting the longer end of the stick. Nothing wrong with that. Everyone is entilted to their own point of view.

    What we're saying here is that, from the general point of view, this is an attemp to exploite. If everyone is paid except the photographer, it sents a wrong message that photographers here can be exploited. Words will spread and soon CS will be known to be a place to get cheap or free photography ( actually, it already is the case ). This is not right and it also cheapens the images of newbies and hobbies here.

    Despite what others may think, the working pros will not be affected much as they have their own client base, their work speak for themself and those looking for cheap photographers are not the clients on their radar. If a newbie can do better than a working pro, than the "pro " better go back and redo his portfolio.
    I get paid more shooting part time ...... damn, I should find more time to shoot part time

  3. #83

    Default Re: Anti-Exploitation (Discussion)

    Quote Originally Posted by StreetShooter View Post
    Aiya don't get your panties all bunched up lah.

    If I want to do for free, and others get paid, it's my business what.

    Anyway, being the official photog has its perks like being able to shoot from certain areas which are restricted to the rest of the public photogs.
    We are talking abt durian, and here u come talk abt orange, dun understand dun come in this thread and make a fool of urself, somemore moderator.........

  4. #84

    Default Re: Anti-Exploitation (Discussion)

    are we thinking this through?

    some people want some type of regulation or market pricing personally i think it's a bad idea...here's why

    as it stands we get people offering cheap or no pay. now, if you are not going to answer there call, then what is the problem? meaning, what are you personally losing? if they are too cheap, you won't take the job anyway so where is your individual loss? however, i promise you there is someone out there just wants to earn enough or needs to earn enough to get by. if someone offers cheap pay and gets a photog from CS and the photog does a bad job, hey, tough, that's what they get for wanting to skimp. will CS miss this type of customer if they don't return...probably not. so again, what are we losing? they can always test the waters again and offer more pay next time for perhaps better quality.

    however, if we make a change and regulate or list a market price for services, i promise you this is what will happen...and it only needs to happen once. someone will offer a fair price and a CSer will take the job. If the customer is not happy with the job they will most likely never approach CS again. now who loses out in this scenario, almost everyone.

    granted the above scenario is a negative one, but you can't only paint a rosey picture and need to see the downfall to things. how do I know that scenario will happen? i'm not being arrogant but it's no secret and all anyone has to do is look at photos and critiques and see that if people in this forum do not even think other people's work is acceptable or desireable because of flaws here and there, rest assured that a paying customer will surley notice that and much more. why do I say that, because every photog has a different style, a different way of doing things and a different eye. if they don't match up and please everyone in this forum, how can we expect everyone here to please every customer? ...you can't. therefore CS and all its members are taking a huge, very huge risk.

    i understand and appreciate what this discuaaion is about, but seriously, somewhere someone is getting married and wants pics but can't pay market prices. somewhere a brother just needs some cash to get by to eat or pay a bill. and somewhere someone wants an unrealistic price and we want to slap for even asking.

    whether we like it or not, there is a market for cheap photogs. either you can eat at crystal jade, or go and have some of the same things at a hawker center for far less...nothing is wrong with either and it just depends on you the customer, what you want, what you fancy.

    exploit is a broad term...banglas are getting exploited in construction, philippinos are getting exploited in post production, maids are being exploited...can go on and on, this is nothing new, we look for the cheapest best price if not free.

    to sum it up and hopefully to let people think through a bit more, we are only exploited if we let it happen to us by taking a peanut job...remember that. so as much as i don't like people getting exploited, no one is forcing anyone to take a job that is exploiting someone in CS. so...are we being exploited (which we cannot be if we didn't take the job), or insulted (which we can be because of unreasonable offers). i think we are more insulted then exploited.

    to set up some sort of market price or regulation only hurts people (CSers and people in need) by lessening their options... an option to be able to decide freely if they want to take that job or not for whatever their personal reasons may be. again, no one is being exploited unless they choose so. the world is full of people that will want cheap or free...can't do anything about that and it's a blessing because it works both ways



    somewhere someone had an idea to sell drinks and call it bar...now have all the businesses that copied or sell cheaper drinks hurt the industry? competition is healthy. imagine one bar and how expensive the prices there would be. now imagine a lot bars and how much more people can enjoy them...carve your own niche and don't worry about the other guy. someone want a beer cheap, point him down the road to a bar that has cheap beer.

    if spoiling the market is an issue, then renew and reinvent yourself, be innovative, creative, and seperate yourself from the rest by either being the best or by being different and don't look back at what people are doing behind you...carve our own nich, make your own path and move on.

  5. #85

    Default Re: Anti-Exploitation (Discussion)

    Quote Originally Posted by StreetShooter View Post
    Aiya don't get your panties all bunched up lah.

    If I want to do for free, and others get paid, it's my business what.

    Anyway, being the official photog has its perks like being able to shoot from certain areas which are restricted to the rest of the public photogs.
    What panties?

    Just because you have certain tastes as to what you put around your hips, doesn't mean everyone else follows suit.

    I think this is extremely unbecoming of a Moderator, first you distinctively state that you knew you were fumbling around when the sole reason why you were arguing was because you DID NOT read eikin's stuff properly. And you ask people to stop making ad hominem attacks while YOU YOURSELF do worse things.

    Ridiculous.

  6. #86
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    Default Re: Anti-Exploitation (Discussion)

    Quote Originally Posted by yqt View Post
    You seem to have a fistish for panties.
    Sorry, for your info, I'm a man and I got a set of triplets to prove I'm a man.

    I'll try to contain myself here and ask nicely, are you getting personnal here? If you so wishes, please take this through PMs. If not please withdraw you "panties" comments. I don't take it kindly when someone suggest that I wear panties, not in a thread like this and not from you.
    Well, till now StreetShooter, one of our Moderator, have not replied to withdraw his "panties" comments nor have he PMed me. Perhaps, he busy now and can't reply, only he knows.

    In anycase, I'll be leaving my studio now and will only have access to CS tomorrow. So before anyone accuse me of not replying, I'll be back tomorrow.


    Sorry eikin for the OT.
    I get paid more shooting part time ...... damn, I should find more time to shoot part time

  7. #87

    Default Re: Anti-Exploitation (Discussion)

    Quote Originally Posted by eikin View Post
    btw, if anyone is interested to start yet another thread to debate on issues of market rates, competition in the industry, ethics whatsoever, i think it'll be really exciting, since it's going to attract thousands of replies. but it'll probably just end up in a big mess of quarrels and get locked. which is why those are not the issues i'm concerned here.

    it's only this forum and how it is being used and can be used that i'm concerned about.

    key words: set a clear anti-exploitation stance, educate the members, deter exploiters.

    that is all.
    Great effort in bringing out the issue. I do feel that there is a need to make a clear stance against any form of exploitation. But it is really up to the "owners" of this forum to take active actions to enforce it. Without that support, it is a hard & long & probably an endless battle.

    As much as there are companies looking to source for free photographers here, I believe there are also members who are waiting for somebody to dangle the carrot. They need their "big break" too. Maybe, they do not know how to go about getting their first paid assignment. (in this instance, not many people are willing to openly share i believe) So responding to these "opportunities" posted in the forum is a very convienient option.

    Yes it is a free market economy. But I feel that such blantant exploits should not happen here.

    Dear Owner of CS Forum, a forum is the equivalent of a marketplace. A successful marketplace has got 3 ingredients:

    1)Governance (law & order, house rules)
    2)Commerce (trade, buy/sell/project offers)
    3)Education (critque, sharing experience & techniques)

    You have all 3! Now here we are suggesting you exercise your authority to protect its members (pros - newbie) by

    1) Having a system where request for photographers must go thru a proper procedure which is open just like the buy & sell. Any request outside this system will be deleted, ban etc.

    2) Make a clear statement when people sign up as members that the forum & its community has zero tolerance for such exploitation.

    I hope this is a good start for a excellent forum based in Singapore.

    Best Regards
    Michael Chan

  8. #88

    Default Re: Anti-Exploitation (Discussion)

    Quote Originally Posted by Hawaiisg View Post
    are we thinking this through?

    some people want some type of regulation or market pricing personally i think it's a bad idea...here's why

    as it stands we get people offering cheap or no pay. now, if you are not going to answer there call, then what is the problem? meaning, what are you personally losing? if they are too cheap, you won't take the job anyway so where is your individual loss? however, i promise you there is someone out there just wants to earn enough or needs to earn enough to get by. if someone offers cheap pay and gets a photog from CS and the photog does a bad job, hey, tough, that's what they get for wanting to skimp. will CS miss this type of customer if they don't return...probably not. so again, what are we losing? they can always test the waters again and offer more pay next time for perhaps better quality.

    however, if we make a change and regulate or list a market price for services, i promise you this is what will happen...and it only needs to happen once. someone will offer a fair price and a CSer will take the job. If the customer is not happy with the job they will most likely never approach CS again. now who loses out in this scenario, almost everyone.

    granted the above scenario is a negative one, but you can't only paint a rosey picture and need to see the downfall to things. how do I know that scenario will happen? i'm not being arrogant but it's no secret and all anyone has to do is look at photos and critiques and see that if people in this forum do not even think other people's work is acceptable or desireable because of flaws here and there, rest assured that a paying customer will surley notice that and much more. why do I say that, because every photog has a different style, a different way of doing things and a different eye. if they don't match up and please everyone in this forum, how can we expect everyone here to please every customer? ...you can't. therefore CS and all its members are taking a huge, very huge risk.

    i understand and appreciate what this discuaaion is about, but seriously, somewhere someone is getting married and wants pics but can't pay market prices. somewhere a brother just needs some cash to get by to eat or pay a bill. and somewhere someone wants an unrealistic price and we want to slap for even asking.

    whether we like it or not, there is a market for cheap photogs. either you can eat at crystal jade, or go and have some of the same things at a hawker center for far less...nothing is wrong with either and it just depends on you the customer, what you want, what you fancy.

    exploit is a broad term...banglas are getting exploited in construction, philippinos are getting exploited in post production, maids are being exploited...can go on and on, this is nothing new, we look for the cheapest best price if not free.

    to sum it up and hopefully to let people think through a bit more, we are only exploited if we let it happen to us by taking a peanut job...remember that. so as much as i don't like people getting exploited, no one is forcing anyone to take a job that is exploiting someone in CS. so...are we being exploited (which we cannot be if we didn't take the job), or insulted (which we can be because of unreasonable offers). i think we are more insulted then exploited.

    to set up some sort of market price or regulation only hurts people (CSers and people in need) by lessening their options... an option to be able to decide freely if they want to take that job or not for whatever their personal reasons may be. again, no one is being exploited unless they choose so. the world is full of people that will want cheap or free...can't do anything about that and it's a blessing because it works both ways



    somewhere someone had an idea to sell drinks and call it bar...now have all the businesses that copied or sell cheaper drinks hurt the industry? competition is healthy. imagine one bar and how expensive the prices there would be. now imagine a lot bars and how much more people can enjoy them...carve your own niche and don't worry about the other guy. someone want a beer cheap, point him down the road to a bar that has cheap beer.

    if spoiling the market is an issue, then renew and reinvent yourself, be innovative, creative, and seperate yourself from the rest by either being the best or by being different and don't look back at what people are doing behind you...carve our own nich, make your own path and move on.
    Bro, u know what are we talking abt???

    If not, better stay clear or do read TS first post.

  9. #89
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    Default Re: Anti-Exploitation (Discussion)

    Quote Originally Posted by night86mare View Post
    What panties?

    Just because you have certain tastes as to what you put around your hips, doesn't mean everyone else follows suit.

    I think this is extremely unbecoming of a Moderator, first you distinctively state that you knew you were fumbling around when the sole reason why you were arguing was because you DID NOT read eikin's stuff properly. And you ask people to stop making ad hominem attacks while YOU YOURSELF do worse things.

    Ridiculous.
    althou i dun agree as well with streetshooter's comment on panties... but i think u should stay 1 side see show better... dun add oil to fire...

    tis will be settled amongst ppl involved...
    Logging Off. "You have 2,631 messages stored, of a total 400 allowed." don't PM me.

  10. #90
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    Default Re: Anti-Exploitation (Discussion)

    i think enough has been talked about the intentions of starting this Anti-Exploitation movement inside CS. i understand how in an open forum, there will always be those who choose what to read and simply refuse to face the actual content of discussion. Thank you all for your time, since the Admin is working on the issue, and since not much of proposal/ideas came into this discussion thread, it's hereby closed.

    anyone else who wish to support the movement to deter people from exploiting this website for their selfish gains through unfair deals are welcomed to sign in this thread --> http://forums.clubsnap.org/showthread.php?t=265488 please be reminded that that is not a discussion thread. anyone else who still want to argue for the shiokness of it, always welcomed to start a new thread, it will be none of my business how you want to battle your virtual enemies behind your computer anyway. have a nice day

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