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Thread: Seeking for filters advice

  1. #1
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    Default Seeking for filters advice

    I recently acquired a 2nd hand CPL 77mm thread for my 72 mm lens. Thus, I bought a step up filter of 72-77mm.

    I'm now thinking of getting ND filters, probably cokin or tian ya filters. There are some doubts with regard to purchasing ND filters. Hopefully experienced users might be able to help.

    If i were to get a ND filter system holder, does it fit on my lens with a CPL 77mm mounted on it?

    I realised there are 2 types of ND, gradual and distinct. Any advices on purchasing either of these? ND 2, 4, 8 each shows a stop difference. For landscape photography, users normally use which type of filters?

    I would like to create a silky flow of waterflows, sea waves, waterfalls etc. Would it be possible if I mount ND2 and ND4 each covering the top and bottom to create similar effect as a whole piece of ND instead of those halves.

  2. #2

    Default Re: Seeking for filters advice

    When I bought my Cokin holder, it came with a thick catalog to demonstrate all their available (then) filters and show its effect. Too bad I gave it away some years ago or I might be able to help you. If cokin still bundling this catalog, it'll help you a great deal in deciding what filters you'll need for whatever effects you wana create.

  3. #3

    Default Re: Seeking for filters advice

    Quote Originally Posted by ryuggen View Post
    I recently acquired a 2nd hand CPL 77mm thread for my 72 mm lens. Thus, I bought a step up filter of 72-77mm.

    I'm now thinking of getting ND filters, probably cokin or tian ya filters. There are some doubts with regard to purchasing ND filters. Hopefully experienced users might be able to help.

    If i were to get a ND filter system holder, does it fit on my lens with a CPL 77mm mounted on it?

    I realised there are 2 types of ND, gradual and distinct. Any advices on purchasing either of these? ND 2, 4, 8 each shows a stop difference. For landscape photography, users normally use which type of filters?

    I would like to create a silky flow of waterflows, sea waves, waterfalls etc. Would it be possible if I mount ND2 and ND4 each covering the top and bottom to create similar effect as a whole piece of ND instead of those halves.
    It gets very uneven when u stack the GND2 and GND4, depending on whether u get the sharp or soft edge types. For waterfalls in bright daytime, get yourself the ND8 directly.

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    Default Re: Seeking for filters advice

    Quote Originally Posted by Hoky View Post
    It gets very uneven when u stack the GND2 and GND4, depending on whether u get the sharp or soft edge types. For waterfalls in bright daytime, get yourself the ND8 directly.
    The ND8 is the way to go, but for foilage, it might remove far too much details for comfort. I think you can get more info about Cokin filters here.

    Cokin Filters
    We live in an age when unnecessary things are our only necessities. - Oscar Wilde

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    Default Re: Seeking for filters advice

    ND8 seems like a good investment for filter. That only....

    Since we could apply GND through PS, why is there a hassle to get a GND? Well, unless the person is shooting film...

    Raw gives us 4 stops of adjustments. Thus, I cant make myself see the importance of filter.

    Please enlight.

  6. #6

    Default Re: Seeking for filters advice

    Quote Originally Posted by ryuggen View Post
    ND8 seems like a good investment for filter. That only....

    Since we could apply GND through PS, why is there a hassle to get a GND? Well, unless the person is shooting film...

    Raw gives us 4 stops of adjustments. Thus, I cant make myself see the importance of filter.

    Please enlight.
    PS will never compare to what you can do with out-of-cam.
    It's just different.

    For example, ND will allow you to expose longer so that you get more dreamy looking water, ie. smoother. Can you PS that? I don't think so. A bit hard to do it.

    Another example would be the "near-HDR" effect, i.e. the sky is exposed properly with the foreground viewable. Without your GND, very hard to reproduce that sort of effects even with PS.

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    Senior Member zoossh's Avatar
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    Default Re: Seeking for filters advice

    Quote Originally Posted by ryuggen View Post
    I recently acquired a 2nd hand CPL 77mm thread for my 72 mm lens. Thus, I bought a step up filter of 72-77mm.

    I'm now thinking of getting ND filters, probably cokin or tian ya filters. There are some doubts with regard to purchasing ND filters. Hopefully experienced users might be able to help. check that your 77mm CPL filter have a thread on the top surface for the adapter ring to be screwed on

    If i were to get a ND filter system holder, does it fit on my lens with a CPL 77mm mounted on it?

    I realised there are 2 types of ND, gradual and distinct. Any advices on purchasing either of these? ND 2, 4, 8 each shows a stop difference. For landscape photography, users normally use which type of filters?

    I would like to create a silky flow of waterflows, sea waves, waterfalls etc. Would it be possible if I mount ND2 and ND4 each covering the top and bottom to create similar effect as a whole piece of ND instead of those halves.
    rectangular filter holder of the p series can be adapted to your filter thread via a step down ring. it can be step down to 77mm via a 84-77mm ring or down to 55mm via a 84-55mm ring.

    ND are meant to block off and reduce light intensity and darker the tones. whereas GND are meant for blocking off selective area of light intensity, typically the sky. in your given example, it should be ND.
    Last edited by zoossh; 11th March 2007 at 10:39 PM.

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    Default Re: Seeking for filters advice

    Do you really know what a CPL is for and what a ND is for?
    As I said to a CSer yesterday morning - know what you really want before getting all that gear, filters included.

    FYI, here are some ND-based images, but they are NOT typical. I'll include some EXIF so that you can get a feel on how they were made.



    Very low-light tunnel conditions, ISO100, f8, 30sec. External weather - overcast. Time:5.53pm



    Morning with bright sun, ISO100, f8, 4sec handheld. Time:9.22am



    Noonday bright sun, ISO100, f5.6, 2sec handheld. Time:12.15pm

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    Default Re: Seeking for filters advice

    Thanks for the replies.

    Unfortunately, I do no have much experience in filters, except CPL, thus would like to seek some advices. I understand how GND can gives a few stops to darken sky to create a blue mood. But with photoshop, is there a need for GND? Blue, Grey, Orange GND etc. To create those colored sky, PS seems to be an easier way out.

    Alot of filters which are available eg. from Tianya/Cokin offers effects which one can do away with photoshop. Thus it doesnt quite make sense to invest in those filters where a few simply clicks can do the job.

    I'm actually looking into TianYa system, but given my current situation, does it fit the bill? My lens is 72mm, CPL is 77mm used with step up. I would very much prefer to use Tianya system together with the CPL to create darker contrast.


    CPL and ND8(for slower shutter) seems to make more sense to invest in compared to other type of filters. Well, perhaps another GND would be good to darken sky.


    P.S. Combining ND2 and ND4 might gives an uneven flow, but if we were to expose it for a substantial amount, doesnt it make silky flows the same?

    Azure: Those are great photos! The tunnel stated was in lowlight situation, how did yea managed to introduce lights into the waterstream? And how is it possible to handheld a sharp photo with 2-4 seconds shutter? Please advise.
    Last edited by ryuggen; 11th March 2007 at 11:02 PM.

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    Default Re: Seeking for filters advice

    Quote Originally Posted by ryuggen View Post
    Thanks for the replies.

    Unfortunately, I do no have much experience in filters, except CPL, thus would like to seek some advices. I understand how GND can gives a few stops to darken sky to create a blue mood. But with photoshop, is there a need for GND? Blue, Grey, Orange GND etc. To create those colored sky, PS seems to be an easier way out.

    Alot of filters which are available eg. from Tianya/Cokin offers effects which one can do away with photoshop. Thus it doesnt quite make sense to invest in those filters where a few simply clicks can do the job.

    I'm actually looking into TianYa system, but given my current situation, does it fit the bill? My lens is 72mm, CPL is 77mm used with step up. I would very much prefer to use Tianya system together with the CPL to create darker contrast.


    CPL and ND8(for slower shutter) seems to make more sense to invest in compared to other type of filters. Well, perhaps another GND would be good to darken sky.


    P.S. Combining ND2 and ND4 might gives an uneven flow, but if we were to expose it for a substantial amount, doesnt it make silky flows the same?

    Azure: Those are great photos! The tunnel stated was in lowlight situation, how did yea managed to introduce lights into the waterstream? And how is it possible to handheld a sharp photo with 2-4 seconds shutter? Please advise.
    Photoshop can't give you back details that are lost in the process of exposing(overexposed)
    and why does ND2+ND4 gives an uneven flow? effectively it is just a ND8 but of probably lower quality since it is 2 pieces of glass/plastic infront.
    Last edited by ExplorerZ; 11th March 2007 at 11:09 PM.

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    Default Re: Seeking for filters advice

    Quote Originally Posted by ExplorerZ View Post
    Photoshop can't give you back details that are lost in the process of exposing(overexposed)
    and why does ND2+ND4 gives an uneven flow? effectively it is just a ND8 but of probably lower quality since it is 2 pieces of glass/plastic infront.
    eh, Hoky mentioned about the uneven flow...

    In that case, overexposure of photos might happen due to sharp contrast environment. Hmz.. btw, for GND, in the case of Tianya, do they offer different stops? I've checked ppcp but they only offered 1 type, in the context of stop GND

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    Senior Member zoossh's Avatar
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    Default Re: Seeking for filters advice

    Quote Originally Posted by ryuggen View Post
    I understand how GND can gives a few stops to darken sky to create a blue mood. But with photoshop, is there a need for GND? Blue, Grey, Orange GND etc. To create those colored sky, PS seems to be an easier way out.
    physical filters affect resultant exposure and may change the shutter duration. addition of effect in PS dun.

    also GND does not create a blue mood. it brings out the color of the sky, so does CPL, although not exactly in the same way. the color that comes may be of various colors, not just blue. for example, a very faint pink in the sky will become a darker pink, not blue. however do note that most GND filters have a color tinge, perhaps except for singh ray.

    Quote Originally Posted by ryuggen View Post
    Thus it doesnt quite make sense to invest in those filters where a few simply clicks can do the job.
    so far i didn't see any examples of successful graduated colors applied, i know some have applied them but they turned out ugly. i think it still can be done still by a ps guru, however, i dun think it would then be a few simple click.

    Quote Originally Posted by ryuggen View Post
    P.S. Combining ND2 and ND4 might gives an uneven flow, but if we were to expose it for a substantial amount, doesnt it make silky flows the same?
    what do you mean by uneven flow?

  13. #13
    Senior Member zoossh's Avatar
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    Default Re: Seeking for filters advice

    Quote Originally Posted by ryuggen View Post
    eh, Hoky mentioned about the uneven flow...

    In that case, overexposure of photos might happen due to sharp contrast environment. Hmz.. btw, for GND, in the case of Tianya, do they offer different stops? I've checked ppcp but they only offered 1 type, in the context of stop GND
    1-3 stops. but not sure if they are hard or soft edge.

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    Default Re: Seeking for filters advice

    Quote Originally Posted by ryuggen View Post
    eh, Hoky mentioned about the uneven flow...

    In that case, overexposure of photos might happen due to sharp contrast environment. Hmz.. btw, for GND, in the case of Tianya, do they offer different stops? I've checked ppcp but they only offered 1 type, in the context of stop GND
    thats GND... uneven becos 1/2 of the filter are darker than the other 1/2... but for ND, its uniform throughout...

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    Default Re: Seeking for filters advice

    Quote Originally Posted by Azure View Post
    Do you really know what a CPL is for and what a ND is for?
    As I said to a CSer yesterday morning - know what you really want before getting all that gear, filters included.

    FYI, here are some ND-based images, but they are NOT typical. I'll include some EXIF so that you can get a feel on how they were made.



    Very low-light tunnel conditions, ISO100, f8, 30sec. External weather - overcast. Time:5.53pm



    Morning with bright sun, ISO100, f8, 4sec handheld. Time:9.22am



    Noonday bright sun, ISO100, f5.6, 2sec handheld. Time:12.15pm
    nice demonstration set of pics. btw whats the secret to handholding for 2-4s without shake?

  16. #16

    Default Re: Seeking for filters advice

    Quote Originally Posted by ryuggen View Post
    eh, Hoky mentioned about the uneven flow...

    In that case, overexposure of photos might happen due to sharp contrast environment. Hmz.. btw, for GND, in the case of Tianya, do they offer different stops? I've checked ppcp but they only offered 1 type, in the context of stop GND
    I meant uneven contrast (if you see my post on GNDs earlier on), not uneven flow of water....

    Anyway, I juz received a call from Cathay that their GNDs are in stock again.

  17. #17

    Default Re: Seeking for filters advice

    Quote Originally Posted by allsmilez View Post
    nice demonstration set of pics. btw whats the secret to handholding for 2-4s without shake?
    ya lor...

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    Default Re: Seeking for filters advice

    Quote Originally Posted by Hoky View Post
    I meant uneven contrast (if you see my post on GNDs earlier on), not uneven flow of water....

    Anyway, I juz received a call from Cathay that their GNDs are in stock again.
    Hoky, which brand of GND? Am very interested in getting a few filters... But cant decided cokin or screw in.


    Possible to handhold 2-4s? Wonder if Azure will look at this thread again..

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    Default Re: Seeking for filters advice

    Quote Originally Posted by ryuggen View Post
    Hoky, which brand of GND? Am very interested in getting a few filters... But cant decided cokin or screw in.


    Possible to handhold 2-4s? Wonder if Azure will look at this thread again..
    possible for 1/2-1+ seconds when one is in full support by surrounding structure, e.g. forehead, shoulder, elbow, knee and foot.

    for example, u stand behind a low tree with a y-shaped opening, acting like a huge tripod where you lean your body weight on it....

    4s..... i dunno.....

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    Default Re: Seeking for filters advice

    Indirectly, I'll link to this ---> http://forums.clubsnap.org/showpost....07&postcount=3
    (read : I do not use Grad NDs..... even though I have one)

    As for handholding, there is no secret - posture, support and breathing. Used to do that with my Coolpix in the past. Only now rediscovered how to get it right on heavier dSLRs. But it isn't possible for every single person. Sometimes I can only push myself to 2 sec. When lucky, I can sustain up to 4 sec, but that is rare. Some folks can do 1-2 sec easily, some find 1/30 hard. So it varies.

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