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Thread: Better equip=better pics?

  1. #61
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    Originally posted by StreetShooter
    Do you really think you could take your nature shots or your football shots with a Pentax point and shoot camera?

    It may not matter for street photography, but it does for the kind of pictures you take, the kind which are "professional".
    Oh yes, I agree with you in those circumstances. But if you take a specialist areas out of it (sport and wildlife being the main two) then there are not a lot.

    Remember I take a lot of my sports shots with a manual lens. With a camera that only does 3fps, and on manual exposure. Believe me I've used manual SLR's so much, I could easily thumb advance as fast as that practically. So I could do exactly the same with a humble FE. And I fare not significantly worse than my fellow pros next to me with 1Ds and L lenses.

    And I'd also like to think that, given the same equipment as the other, I can take better pictures than a good number of other photographers because of my experience, and if it must be included, technical knowledge and grounding in the fundamentals.

    And at any rate, Langzi/Camera1001 were only targeting their assault at non-professionals.

  2. #62

    Default Re: no brainer?

    Originally posted by langzi
    yup..im a no brainer alright....perhaps i shld start to sell all my equip away and stop photography. well, since the rest think i cannot shoot and my views on photography is bad, i dont think i shld stay on and ruin the dear reputation of powerful almighty red dawn. man....he/she is good...

    yup..so what if im a PA? i didnt say what studio im working at and you ppl immediately assume it''s one og those lowly studio. yup, i dont take pics cos all the pics my boss takes are very impt and cannot afford to screw up. so what if i go coffeeshop and buy coffee for him? i like it and no one shld say that i have no F****** right to speak. i do what i like ok, and maybe it's not me who shld shut up.

    you think you can make in big in the commercial scene w/o being a apprentice for some photographer first? go ahead lah, and we'll see how u fare.

    im getting agitated here and my thread will seem to be very vulgar. well, im a childish brat like red dawn say, so bo bian lor.
    if you all think that this is gonna make my morale F****** low, you are wrong man.

    F****d up,
    langzi
    Excuse mi,
    As far as I can see, we are just trying to hold onto our own views...

    You attack other, have the grace to accept that other might do the same to you. DO upon to people what other do to you!

    So please these is getting no where!
    I think this shld and will be the end !

    Thanks you all for the co-operation!

    Tom Chew!

  3. #63
    Sphoenix
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    What's Tom Chew? Is that a phrase? OMG it's a name

  4. #64
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    Okay, let me get in my 0.02 since I haven't properly contributed to this thread, mainly because of it's massive length.

    Let me first off said that I was one of those who thought Langzi's original post was fairly harmless. I thought it was Camera1001 who first stirred the pot, and I made that known to several people last night (my time) when I didn't have the time to crash through the thread properly and post a sensible reply.

    Since then, the thread has degenerated even further. To be honest, I tend to agree that a lot of people do not need the equipment they own. In the sense that most people could get by with a basic camera setup. When I was just starting out I will admit to a good bit of jealousy. I had a basic setup, and I would encounter clowns who owned expensive gear and didn't know half what I knew about photography. In fact they hardly knew anything, so it would be a lot less than half! (Don't worry, it's not anyone here). And I was fed up because I thought, they were so lucky. But I kept it to myself and just plugged away taking good pictures. A few lucky breaks later combined with at least decent photographs, and I was able to afford the same equipment those people had.

    Well, I'm lucky enough to have made enough money from my photography to be able to afford the best kit now. From the manual stuff borrowed from dad, to my F90x, to an F5 and now to fantastic cameras from every major format. Streetshoot has the point that a lot of the pics I've posted cannot be taken with cheap equipment. That's very true, for those kinds of shots. But they are a necessary requirement (although not as necessary as some might believe as I pointed out). But not everyone with my equipment can take those kinds of pictures I take, at least not straightaway.

    Some specific points:

    Give someone 20 outings with a disposable camera, he will probably be able to produce some better shots compated to a person with 1 roll of film, an F5 and some expensive lens. Ruey Loon's point

    Point taken, but I believe it also depends on who the people are. I would like to think (although I might well be wrong!) that I can take a better set of pictures with the latter equipment than a complete beginner with 20 disposable cameras.

    i am glad that some of you,except a few, support me that some photographers have a 600mm f/4 lens and shot a few pics of birdies and then they call them self wildlife photographers. well, i've shot for newspaper b4, so does that makes me a photojournalist? Langzi's point

    I agree with the first point. There is a lot more to wildlife photography than going to the zoo. But the question I have is, do the means matter to the ends? In the same way that I argue that it shouldn't matter how easy an effect is to achieve with Photoshop if the end result is correct, I believe if a shot taken of a captive animal looks the part, then it shouldn't matter. Otherwise painters would all frown upon photography as a rubbish art form. But as above, there is more to getting a good wildlife photograph than just turning up at a zoo with a 600/4. But the difference is the photographer and the type of images he creates, not whether he has or hasn't expensive equipment, or whether he has or has not been out in the field to shoot truly wild, life.

    You don't need to have shot for a newspaper to be a photojournalist. Anyone who takes photographs to tell a story qualifies as a photojournalist. And to be a good photojournalist doesn't depend on whether you've shot for a newspaper or not. It depends on the quality of your work. Always had, always will, in any field, be it wildlife or pj work or anything else.

    i haven't seen alot about life... working in a renowned magazine scene and used to shoot simple pics for newspapers.. Langzi's point

    Langzi, you're keen to stress your experience. Working for your renown pro (previous digital/conventional thread), now a renown magazine scene, and shooting pics for your newspapers. Unfortunately, in the same way that, as per your own reasoning, better equipment does not necessarily equal better pics, better exposure and experience does not necessarily equate better pics, or more rational statements.

    Admittedly, I am inclined to put more weight into your statements if you have been gathering the experience you claim to be. Unfortunately, as from the last thread, I have already decided your experiences need to be taken with a pinch of salt. Main reason was that after speaking with such authority on digital, and quoting your renown pro, several weeks later you were asking for basic help with scanning and for explanations about resolution. How can you bring yourself to credibly criticise something without first understanding it? This is a life thing again, and I am trying to help again (so don't anybody come out and say that those "pretending" to help him are being the most damning). If you speak out against something you know very little about, you are asking for it. This applies to photography, but also to anything else you might come across in life.

    right..im a computer idoit...tel me how to post pics and i'll post...teach me leh...... Langzi's point

    In the last post, your excuse was because you didn't have a scanner. But to be honest, the main reason why I'm bringing this up is because it really makes me scratch my head how you could sling mud at digital, as this just demonstrates further your lack of experience with it, and as above, you really should leave well alone if you don't know enough about something.

    since the rest think i cannot shoot and my views on photography is bad Langzi's point

    I don't think any of us know for sure that you cannot shoot. And I for one have never said that you can't, because I don't believe in judging until I have seen the work itself. Similarly, you should not judge on digital v conventional until you know what either is capable of. Which you did in your previous thread. Nor should you judge on all those people questing for new equipment, since you can't possibly say that you've seen all their work as well.

    I have no problem with your views on photography. My problem is that your views are made without being fully informed. If you are in full possession of the facts and make your conclusions, then that's fair enough. At the moment, it seems to myself, and many here, that you have some of the facts and unfortunately presume them to be enough to cast judgment on the subject.

    you think you can make in big in the commercial scene w/o being a apprentice for some photographer first? go ahead lah, and we'll see how u fare. and also i didnt say what studio im working at and you ppl immediately assume it''s one og those lowly studio. Langzi's point

    You're missing the point. Nobody's saying you don't need to work as a PA before you can make it in the commercial scene. The point is that being a PA doesn't make you an expert in the commercial scene, which you are trying to be. The truth is, it's possible to make it, but it's very hard, and the main reasons are networking (nothing to do with photography directly whatsoever), and also because in this society we live in, unfortunately, name dropping is a very important thing. Already touched upon in another thread about Fine Art... As mentioned, neither of these points are photographically related.

    And as for your studio, I don't really care. That is another example of name dropping, and frankly, as before, it doesn't matter how big your studio is, how expensive your equipment or how difficult your Photoshop actions were. It's the end result that counts.

  5. #65

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    Wah Ian so mean siah. Relak leh. Hehehe

    Me also student wor~!
    Haaa


    Dun need power equipment to shoot great photos....for those who insist u need high end stuff to be the best...

    i /slap with my Kyocera Idiot proof camera with auto focus and exposure settings.

    Haaaa!!
    One-North Explorers
    | Leave nothing but footprints, take nothing but photos |

  6. #66
    halfagoodman
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    Default hm..my views as a newbie

    hi guys..this is my first thread here...and i stumbled upon this thread..
    i think that this topic is very controversial, and that Langzi has made some very good points, and so did the rest.

    Langzi said that if a pro were to have a 50mm and a wannabe were to have a full set of equip, the pro would definitely fare better. i think that this is very true, as i've read about this in a book for pros, where they debated about equip.

    also, someone indicated that having better equip would make you a better photographer. i think that this is not true. he compared this with race cars and such. but then, a racing car is all about tecnical stuff, while photography is about looking through a lens, and the mentality. IMHO, i think that if you were to have the wrong mentality, you will not fare well anywhere.

    im not trying to help langzi here, and is quite disgusted by his last vulgar thread. but then, it was good of him to strat one of these discussion whereby ppl frm all walks of life give their opinions and views. but then sadly, it seems he's been flamed. im pondering, if this goes on, wil ppl still dare to post such sensitive topics for discussion in the future? yes, he may be 17, but a 17 yr old has his point of view about photography, so let him be.

    im not sure if i will get any respond for this thread, but this is a nice topic to discuss about as it has been around for ages but no conclusion had been set.

    1/2

    btw, likw my avatar? took this pic at chinatown

  7. #67

    Default Re: hm..my views as a newbie

    Originally posted by halfagoodman
    hi guys..this is my first thread here...and i stumbled upon this thread..
    i think that this topic is very controversial, and that Langzi has made some very good points, and so did the rest.

    Langzi said that if a pro were to have a 50mm and a wannabe were to have a full set of equip, the pro would definitely fare better. i think that this is very true, as i've read about this in a book for pros, where they debated about equip.

    also, someone indicated that having better equip would make you a better photographer. i think that this is not true. he compared this with race cars and such. but then, a racing car is all about tecnical stuff, while photography is about looking through a lens, and the mentality. IMHO, i think that if you were to have the wrong mentality, you will not fare well anywhere.

    im not trying to help langzi here, and is quite disgusted by his last vulgar thread. but then, it was good of him to strat one of these discussion whereby ppl frm all walks of life give their opinions and views. but then sadly, it seems he's been flamed. im pondering, if this goes on, wil ppl still dare to post such sensitive topics for discussion in the future? yes, he may be 17, but a 17 yr old has his point of view about photography, so let him be.

    im not sure if i will get any respond for this thread, but this is a nice topic to discuss about as it has been around for ages but no conclusion had been set.

    1/2

    btw, likw my avatar? took this pic at chinatown
    Hi, welcome aboard.

    Anyway, there are many views on this subject and that not all may be what it seem. You can just type and type but in the end, people might still misunderstood you. The reason being is very simple, we have not met each other before. Thru all the gathering, SEED, etc etc etc, we can get to know more of each other, the style they employ, their ways of expressing themselves and the things they do. It is from all these that we can make out what the "words" mean as being displayed here from the people that we know.

    There is always something to pick up from each other and I believe that the best way is thru direct intereaction with one another.

    Just my $0.02

    *BTW, I can't make out what your avatar is abt.... it too small. Maybe you would like to post it ?

  8. #68
    halfagoodman
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    Default SEED?

    SEED?? what is a SEED? is it a special activity that clubsnap organise?

    btw, the avatar is just a bird in mid flight to land.

    1/2

  9. #69
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    Default Re: SEED?

    Originally posted by halfagoodman
    SEED?? what is a SEED? is it a special activity that clubsnap organise?

    btw, the avatar is just a bird in mid flight to land.

    1/2
    Browse the sub-forums

  10. #70
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    Originally posted by sbs99
    Wah Ian so mean siah. Relak leh. Hehehe

    Me also student wor~!
    Haaa


    Dun need power equipment to shoot great photos....for those who insist u need high end stuff to be the best...

    i /slap with my Kyocera Idiot proof camera with auto focus and exposure settings.

    Haaaa!!
    Rotflmao .. bite my shorts!

    <-- sbs after I'm finished over in the image galleries later tonight haha
    The Ang Moh from Hell
    Professional Photography - many are called, few are chosen!

  11. #71
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    Default Re: no brainer?

    Originally posted by langzi
    yup..im a no brainer alright....perhaps i shld start to sell all my equip away and stop photography
    sell your equipment? that shouldn't be too hard eh? after all, you only have a 50mm lens with which u made great pictures right? and you don't buy new equipment. so it shouldn't be too hard to sell off.

    my advice is go find a pro to sell to - afterall according to you, pros don't need anything more than a 50mm to take great pictures! All the pros will spring for your 50mm once u put it up.
    [/quote][/b]


    . well, since the rest think i cannot shoot and my views on photography is bad
    again, after all the rhetoric, it's still all about YOU. When are u ever going to get off this "I, me, myself" syndrome?

    i dont think i shld stay on and ruin the dear reputation of powerful almighty red dawn. man....he/she is good...
    i think the one whose reputation and credibility that is being called into question is you, not me.

    And oh, i'm not that great or good. The fact that u're so bad, both in cognitive discussions and self expression (u like 4 letter vulgar words don't you?) makes me look better than i really am compared to you.


    yup..so what if im a PA? i didnt say what studio im working at and you ppl immediately assume it''s one og those lowly studio. yup, i dont take pics cos all the pics my boss takes are very impt and cannot afford to screw up. so what if i go coffeeshop and buy coffee for him? i like it and no one shld say that i have no F****** right to speak. i do what i like ok, and maybe it's not me who shld shut up.
    You know why pple are zeroing in on the fact that u're a PA? that's because YOU are the one who proclaimed yourself as one, and wanted to make a lot of noise with that self-accreditation.

    ever tot of it that way?


    you think you can make in big in the commercial scene w/o being a apprentice for some photographer first? go ahead lah, and we'll see how u fare.
    Oh, i didn't know they start teaching 4 letter words in those big studios. Seeing as how u're faring right now, i don't think i want any part in your association with those studios or magazines.

    tell me, are all PAs as arrogant as you?


    im getting agitated here and my thread will seem to be very vulgar. well, im a childish brat like red dawn say, so bo bian lor.
    Right. So you're not going to attempt to even prove me wrong on that point, and want to vindicate my statement by acting childish?
    Obviously reverse psychology doesn't work on you. And apparently, neither does your 17 years of education. (assuming you had one)

    i've seen 13 year olds more mature than you!


    if you all think that this is gonna make my morale F****** low, you are wrong man.
    since when is it ever about u again?

    i'm just getting warmed up and haven't started flaming you yet, and u're going to leave this place?


    F****d up,
    langzi
    yup, seems to describe you perfectly!
    David Teo
    View my work and blog at http://www.5stonesphoto.com/blog

  12. #72
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    Default Re: hm..my views as a newbie

    Originally posted by halfagoodman
    hi guys..this is my first thread here...and i stumbled upon this thread..
    i think that this topic is very controversial, and that Langzi has made some very good points, and so did the rest.
    the difference being he made those points with full intention of insinuating others who are able to afford or buy better equipment than him. it's just a cover up for his inner jealousy and envy. Pls see my very first reply to this thread and all other subsequent ones for a detailed analysis of his character.

    nobody is questioning his ability to take a good picture. If he can learn to be content with wat he has and use it to the fullest, he wouldn't be looking over at wat others have, or are planning to have. Then he will not have made general sweeping statements that purport to be universal photography truths, but in actual fact, are thinly veiled attacks at pple who own wat he coverts secretly.
    [/b][/quote]


    Langzi said that if a pro were to have a 50mm and a wannabe were to have a full set of equip, the pro would definitely fare better. i think that this is very true, as i've read about this in a book for pros, where they debated about equip.
    this is common sense. Photography is not that much a tool based endeavour as many pple think.


    im not trying to help langzi here, and is quite disgusted by his last vulgar thread. but then, it was good of him to strat one of these discussion whereby ppl frm all walks of life give their opinions and views. but then sadly, it seems he's been flamed. im pondering, if this goes on, wil ppl still dare to post such sensitive topics for discussion in the future? yes, he may be 17, but a 17 yr old has his point of view about photography, so let him be.
    you really need to

    1) read this entire thread again
    2) read his previous treatise on digital vs film
    3) read his various postings and queries on this forum

    to find out that

    1) he has a serious self esteem problem
    2) he's not interested in ideas "from all walks of life".
    3) his idea of discussion is pple agreeing to wat he said - he likes those pple
    4) he starts these posts as a springboard to proclaim all his so called experiences in so-and-so magazine / studio
    5) he's not sincere in any form of civilised discussion
    David Teo
    View my work and blog at http://www.5stonesphoto.com/blog

  13. #73

    Default Re: Re: no brainer?

    Originally posted by Red Dawn




    again, after all the rhetoric, it's still all about YOU. When are u ever going to get off this "I, me, myself" syndrome?

    Correction, "Me, Myself and I" should be it. It sounds better. :P

  14. #74
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    Default Re: Re: Re: no brainer?

    Originally posted by YSLee


    Correction, "Me, Myself and I" should be it. It sounds better. :P
    Actually, it is I, Me and Myself... after all, I always come first. You've probably just been taken in by the Hollywood glitz... Me, Myself and Irene?


  15. #75
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    Default

    Ok guys, enough, here.

    Please learn to control yourself. Continuous bashing of someone when he is down, do not boast your self-esteem.

  16. #76

    Default

    Originally posted by Simon
    Ok guys, enough, here.

    Please learn to control yourself. Continuous bashing of someone when he is down, do not boast your self-esteem.
    self-esteem is a song by offspring.

  17. #77

    Default Re: Re: Re: Re: no brainer?

    Originally posted by Jed


    Actually, it is I, Me and Myself... after all, I always come first. You've probably just been taken in by the Hollywood glitz... Me, Myself and Irene?

    No, it's this friend of mine, I guess. Ahaha, if you want to know, I'll tell it to you on ICQ, this thread is OT as it is already!

  18. #78
    Sin
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    Default Re: Re: hm..my views as a newbie

    Originally posted by Red Dawn


    the difference being he made those points with full intention of insinuating others who are able to afford or buy better equipment than him. it's just a cover up for his inner jealousy and envy.

    ...to find out that

    1) he has a serious self esteem problem
    2) he's not interested in ideas "from all walks of life".
    3) his idea of discussion is pple agreeing to wat he said - he likes those pple
    4) he starts these posts as a springboard to proclaim all his so called experiences in so-and-so magazine / studio
    5) he's not sincere in any form of civilised discussion
    OK. Let's take it from the top. I suggest all parties involved take two deep breaths and compose themselves before they post anymore.

    Langzi's first intention was Better equip NOT EQUAL to better pic. Somehow, somewhere it got twisted such that the impression I get is that he is advocating Better equip EQUAL better pic. (This twisting started not from Langzi's post but some of the others who became sarcastic and etc...) Now some people will think that Langzi advocates "Better equip Equal better pics"?

    Langzi: Do learn to watch your language on this forum. Frustration is not a license for being vulgar.

    Moderators, Core Team members, etc: Please, you're here to "moderate", not join in the personal bashing. And yes, PERSONAL bashing.

    True, Langzi may have made mistakes in his posts, and yes, he MAY even be self-conceited as some of you has pointed out. But do you know him well enough to judge him? I believe counter points to his arguments will be enough for people to see.

    Please do not engage in personal attack of a person just because you don't like his opinion (Yes, Red Dawn, I think it's about time you keep your comments about someone's self-esteem to yourself. You don't know a person well enough to say such things yet... and even so, I'd never post it in a forum read by 500 people - name-calling one of the members).

    I don't want this to become another of those former forums...remember what happened before?

  19. #79
    halfagoodman
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    Default hm...

    hm...it seems like the heat heated up when replies are posted, rebuking Langzi's point, and Langzi, in a moment of folly, started to rebuke the rest in an attempt to save himself.

    i dont think that Langzi is jealous about ppl having expensive equip, sice he posted that a pro would use a 50mm len and still fare best. well, if he has this kind of mentality, i doubt he will be drooling over ppl's equip.

    regarding his use of vulgurities, it seems like he was very desperate then he used it, as i went through his previous thread bout film vs digital and not a single vulgarity is used even when so many ppl flamed him. it seems like he only wanted to start a friendly discussion here but in the end got rebutted and well...it's like that. yes, he made some sweeping statements and it's kinda brainless to make them, as it only give's ppl a chance to rebuke him.

    well, im not trying to make a personal attack here, but this is for Red Dawn. though im a newbie here in clubsnap, i think that it is only good if you dont make statements based on threads to stone a person. saying that he is a childish brat based on what he has typed is unfair, as i doubt you have met him/her. BTW, has anyone met Langzi b4?

    1/2

  20. #80
    langzi
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    Default My Apology

    Dear all,
    i would like to make an apology to those whom i have offended with my use of vulgarities in my previous thread. i was very frustrated by just looking at al the thread pointed at me, and being unable to control my emotions, i used the vulgarity. my apologies again.

    to all who have helped settle this matter by a way or another, esp 1/2, i thank you. your threads gave me much thoughts and i decided taht it was worng for me to point out individuals here.

    of course i hope that this will never again, but is it possible that we have a freindly discussion for this topic and come to a conclusion?

    cheers,
    langzi

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