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Thread: Regarding photo pests at big occasions...

  1. #21
    Moderator Clown's Avatar
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    Default Re: Regarding photo pests at big occasions...

    Quote Originally Posted by Hawaiisg View Post
    i think if a pro has a job to do, it outweighs someone doing it as a hobby or on vacation. very idealistic scenario to be a pro and be considerate to TS, but in reality, the two do not always go hand in hand. Quite frankly if i had a job to do; that job and my money shot is top priority. why even complain, pros get in the way of other pros trying to get their shots.

    in my opinion,...seems like you perhaps just dun like americans. why i say that? does it matter that the guy is 6 foot plus....does it matter he is american and what significance does it make as to what nationality he is to be perceived as rude? me, i'm a believer in fighting your battles there and now. maybe that's why you write about it here because you're upset you didn't do anything and he got the best of you.

    regardless of your view, stand up for yourself buddy and geez, letting your wife get involved???...wow, not good. anyways go easy, there's a whole world to shoot and many ways to do it in.
    dude do you know icebooke personally to stake your claims here?

    or are you the 'american pro' like the guy mentioned? do you actually behave like that on your 'pro' assignments? lets see your wedding photographer holding your bride's walk-in just to get a few in-your-face portraits cuz he HAS to get his job done correct? it's top priority right? you cant refuse HIS rights to get his job done, no?

    wake up dude.
    Last edited by Clown; 27th February 2007 at 03:14 AM.

  2. #22

    Default Re: Regarding photo pests at big occasions...

    Quote Originally Posted by Rashkae View Post
    The moment he shoved you, you should have reported him to the police. You'd be amazed what can happen to a white american man in a Laos prison.
    What can happen? Kanna pok pok at behind hole?

  3. #23
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    Default Re: Regarding photo pests at big occasions...

    This is an interesting thread to read.

  4. #24

    Default Re: Regarding photo pests at big occasions...

    Quote Originally Posted by Xpose View Post
    What can happen? Kanna pok pok at behind hole?
    With the big lens...

  5. #25
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    Default Re: Regarding photo pests at big occasions...

    If I were you, I'd have swung your camera at the fella's head up-down-left-right-center and kick him in his groin and let him celebrate mothers day this year.

  6. #26
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    Default Re: Regarding photo pests at big occasions...

    Quote Originally Posted by wazzup View Post
    If I were you, I'd have swung your camera at the fella's head up-down-left-right-center and kick him in his groin and let him celebrate mothers day this year.
    I would wack his photogears wif my tiny PnS and run.



    Quote Originally Posted by hASHbrown_kopitiam View Post
    wah...the american u encountered at Laos is even more agressive than our local Bengs...
    Our local beng cannot make it lar, NATO. Only know how to tok loudly, sent regards to ur parents and swing their arms like monkey.
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  7. #27

    Default Re: Regarding photo pests at big occasions...

    I Think you are right on this point. Most probably he got my accent and guessed my intentions correctly.

    "We are being accused of being a 'Police State' & 'Nanny State' so often by foreign press that more oft than not, ignorant noobs who think that they have the entire world under their powerful might, would deem any 'telling off' behaviour as a 'typical behaviour of a Singaporean'. Might sound familiar to anti-govt/establishment people though."


    Regarding the stand off, no, it was not my intention for my poor wife to come in between. The gutsy gal just came right in between cos she has seen me react before: I'm a qualified black belt in 3 martial arts. So it would have resulted in me and him in a scuff. She just felt the occasion was marred enough, she's Buddhist, so she didn't want to disturb the procession. I think she did the right thing.

    Anyway I shared this to show a point. One should carry a responsibility to others when shooting for work or leisure. Getting the shot is one thing, doing it while disrupting a significant event is another. My personal beef about the actual situation at that point was that he tapped the shoulders of little monks 6 to 8 years old to stop them and catch a good shot. I felt he stepped over a limit. He felt I stepped over his limit by telling him how to do his work (or hindering his work). Hence the inevitable confrontation.

    Had we gone a step further, he would very well have ended up in hospital, and I in jail, or vice versa, for a day. Not worth the situation for me, given I was on holiday!

  8. #28

    Default Re: Regarding photo pests at big occasions...

    CLOWN WROTE...dude do you know icebooke personally to stake your claims here?

    or are you the 'american pro' like the guy mentioned? do you actually behave like that on your 'pro' assignments? lets see your wedding photographer holding your bride's walk-in just to get a few in-your-face portraits cuz he HAS to get his job done correct? it's top priority right? you cant refuse HIS rights to get his job done, no?

    wake up dude


    My response
    nope don't know him but am entitled to an opinon. no it wasn't me, i would've gave him the courtesy and i would not have gotten his or anyone's wife involved if it ever got to that. when he specifically lays out a nationality, my take on it is what for. do people need to know he is big and an american...hence the stereotypical big ugly american...to me, it sounds racial.

    on my assignments, i already know official photogs or pros if you want to call it that and that they have a job to do. therefore, i am courteous to them and don't expect the reciprical (not saying TS did). second, i nor anyone else would shoot a wedding like that so bad example, sorry, maybe you should wake up. third, wake up again...is the photographer willfully and intentionally making it a priority to refuse someone's rights, or more than likely is he doing his job unfortunately but allbeit untactfully. a pro has a responsibility to his client...bottom line. courtesy is nice, but mandatory.

    hello mcfly, wakee wakee

    could i have been nicer, sure...but why should i after your "wake up dude." one uncalled for remark deserves one right back

  9. #29
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    Default Re: Regarding photo pests at big occasions...

    Quote Originally Posted by icebooke View Post
    I Think you are right on this point. Most probably he got my accent and guessed my intentions correctly.
    Probably not. More oft than not, most Westerners can't tell 'we Asians' apart like how we can't tell Westerners apart since they all look white to us like we all look yellow to them.

    Regarding the stand off, no, it was not my intention for my poor wife to come in between. The gutsy gal just came right in between cos she has seen me react before: I'm a qualified black belt in 3 martial arts. So it would have resulted in me and him in a scuff. She just felt the occasion was marred enough, she's Buddhist, so she didn't want to disturb the procession. I think she did the right thing.
    I guess so. But still as a martial artist myself, can I say safely that u seriously wanted to ding him in the balls?

    He may be intimidating u with his size and 1DMkII, but still I guess u shld keep ur peace and endure. Remember! U're probably fighting against an untrained man.

    Anyway, u seem to be enduring quite well. Given me under that circumstances I'd have broke his solar plexus. No wonder my sensei always tell me to cool off. Still back to topic.

    Anyway I shared this to show a point. One should carry a responsibility to others when shooting for work or leisure. Getting the shot is one thing, doing it while disrupting a significant event is another. My personal beef about the actual situation at that point was that he tapped the shoulders of little monks 6 to 8 years old to stop them and catch a good shot. I felt he stepped over a limit. He felt I stepped over his limit by telling him how to do his work (or hindering his work). Hence the inevitable confrontation.

    Had we gone a step further, he would very well have ended up in hospital, and I in jail, or vice versa, for a day. Not worth the situation for me, given I was on holiday!
    Unfortunately, different work ethics my dear Watson.

    Some show consideration, others would not stop at anything to get the job done even if it means kicking the Sun out of orbit and plunging the entire Solar System into complete darkness.

    Must say that u did the right thing (both as a normal human and a martial artist) to stop the bugger from disturbing the poor boy (work or not, disturbing a monk when he's in prayer is a big nono). But telling him abt responsibilities and stuff... well, u might be in the wrong there since our Pro American friend might see it as "You damned bugger teaching me how to do my work? Don't!"

    Cultural values differ on each side of the Pacific and to my knowledge, Westerners don't take such things lying down or throw u a subtle hint to say that they don't like what u're saying but opt for an open confrontational approach. That's where the fists starts flying.

    Can't say the Westerner is absolutely wrong too as he probably had a job to cover, and yet can't say he's absolutely right when he shoved and threatened u with bodily harm (of cos, he hasn't made the first move, so u ain't supposed to react with pre-empt strikes).

  10. #30

    Default Re: Regarding photo pests at big occasions...

    Quote Originally Posted by icebooke View Post
    I Think you are right on this point. Most probably he got my accent and guessed my intentions correctly.

    Regarding the stand off, no, it was not my intention for my poor wife to come in between. The gutsy gal just came right in between cos she has seen me react before: I'm a qualified black belt in 3 martial arts. So it would have resulted in me and him in a scuff. She just felt the occasion was marred enough, she's Buddhist, so she didn't want to disturb the procession. I think she did the right thing.

    Anyway I shared this to show a point. One should carry a responsibility to others when shooting for work or leisure. Getting the shot is one thing, doing it while disrupting a significant event is another. My personal beef about the actual situation at that point was that he tapped the shoulders of little monks 6 to 8 years old to stop them and catch a good shot. I felt he stepped over a limit. He felt I stepped over his limit by telling him how to do his work (or hindering his work). Hence the inevitable confrontation.

    Had we gone a step further, he would very well have ended up in hospital, and I in jail, or vice versa, for a day. Not worth the situation for me, given I was on holiday!
    ahh you got one of those types of wife also huh...same here

    i know what your saying but he probably had set his own working limits with the monks. consider he cannot ask them to stop or take a pic in their native language, therefore has to make a "stop" gesture or physically touch them. second, if he felt the monks did not like it, then surely he would have or should have stopped. third, he probably was so into his work and also distracted because he could not communicate with them that when you approcahed him as nice as you were, he was going to be upset with whomever would throw up another "obstacle" for him.

    ...all i'm saying is that i didn't see a point in stating his nationality other than to be racial about it, and it can pass as being that way. whether i like him or not (the pro) because of looks, race, stinkyness or whatever, he has a job to do.

    ...anyways, i would've rather have heard how you kicked someone's arse (minus nationality) for screwing up your shot and disrespecting your wife...now that's a good story!

  11. #31
    Moderator Clown's Avatar
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    Default Re: Regarding photo pests at big occasions...

    Quote Originally Posted by Hawaiisg View Post
    CLOWN WROTE...dude do you know icebooke personally to stake your claims here?

    or are you the 'american pro' like the guy mentioned? do you actually behave like that on your 'pro' assignments? lets see your wedding photographer holding your bride's walk-in just to get a few in-your-face portraits cuz he HAS to get his job done correct? it's top priority right? you cant refuse HIS rights to get his job done, no?

    wake up dude


    My response
    nope don't know him but am entitled to an opinon. no it wasn't me, i would've gave him the courtesy and i would not have gotten his or anyone's wife involved if it ever got to that. when he specifically lays out a nationality, my take on it is what for. do people need to know he is big and an american...hence the stereotypical big ugly american...to me, it sounds racial.

    on my assignments, i already know official photogs or pros if you want to call it that and that they have a job to do. therefore, i am courteous to them and don't expect the reciprical (not saying TS did). second, i nor anyone else would shoot a wedding like that so bad example, sorry, maybe you should wake up. third, wake up again...is the photographer willfully and intentionally making it a priority to refuse someone's rights, or more than likely is he doing his job unfortunately but allbeit untactfully. a pro has a responsibility to his client...bottom line. courtesy is nice, but mandatory.

    hello mcfly, wakee wakee

    could i have been nicer, sure...but why should i after your "wake up dude." one uncalled for remark deserves one right back
    hi peaballs,

    yes courtesy is nice, but(and) mandatory. you're enforcing my point very well.

    you're certainly taking this situation in a most kiddish-dogma point of view, getting all emotional and personal about it. your opinion was taken, disected and refuted.

    you said:
    i think if a pro has a job to do, it outweighs someone doing it as a hobby or on vacation. very idealistic scenario to be a pro and be considerate to TS, but in reality, the two do not always go hand in hand. Quite frankly if i had a job to do; that job and my money shot is top priority. why even complain, pros get in the way of other pros trying to get their shots.
    here you assumed that:
    a pro's priorities are of utmost importance even when it tramples on other pros' or people's rights - so why is my example of a bad wedding shoot disagreeable? are you saying that if you do not shoot a wedding in the way i mentioned, all wedding shoots are perfect? i'm so sure you can talk so many wedding photogs here how screwed up wedding shoots can get. come on, the only difference between the 2 scenarios is that for a wedding, your paymaster is the wedded couple. cant bite the hand that feeds you right? and oh, that 8 year old boy-monk cant possibly get in the way of your money shot right? so now please enlighten me dear hawaiisg, why is my example in error?

    in my opinion,...seems like you perhaps just dun like americans. why i say that? does it matter that the guy is 6 foot plus....does it matter he is american and what significance does it make as to what nationality he is to be perceived as rude? me, i'm a believer in fighting your battles there and now. maybe that's why you write about it here because you're upset you didn't do anything and he got the best of you.
    ok so what? it seems like you're the one that's oh-so-sensitive about racism and all. he mentioned an american. it's a fact that people from different cultures and countries behave differently. look, the reasons 'american' was mentioned was so that you can understand better; despite the difference in build, u need to be quite adamant on your principles to actually go toe-to-toe with a big guy, and probably also because no asian would have the audacity doing such unthoughtful stuff. you may be free thinker for all i care but that doesnt give you the rights to treat other's religion with a disrespectful attitude, in public sommore! i'd dare you, mr pro photog, to do that while doing your pro assignment in afghanistan when you *NEED* the up close and personal face shot of an angry cleric who's preaching.

    regardless of your view, stand up for yourself buddy and geez, letting your wife get involved???...wow, not good. anyways go easy, there's a whole world to shoot and many ways to do it in
    here you made the first uncalled for remark, i responded and so let's roll.
    Last edited by Clown; 27th February 2007 at 11:32 PM.

  12. #32

    Default Re: Regarding photo pests at big occasions...

    you make me laugh

    how was religion disrespected?...who's rights were trampled? you were not there, neither was i. your whole passage is full of rhetoric and to make it easy for you nothing you say in this forum matters or makes a difference to me so save your breath. my remarks were for TS and so far things seem to be okay with him. I understand his position and tried to point out another view for him to see. hopefully he's okay after a bad experience. the last thing i'd like to see or anyone else for that matter is pros going toe-to-toe or amateurs for that matter, trying to get a good shot and someone freeking out simply because they remembered this thread and felt the need to get back at a certain race. that was why it was important in my view not to single out a race. things are not always what they seem and perhaps there was a reason why. we should look to understand what it is and why it is.

    now after this if you have a bone to pick with me meet me at harbourfront tomorrow, you buy the coffee (starbucks) since your panties seem to be in a bunch over this and we'll discuss it. I'll be in a red shirt, silver glasses on my head, and wearing brown long khaki pants at 12 noon. my family is flying in tomorrow at 2 but i'll put aside a special time just for you...

    ...simple

  13. #33

    Default Re: Regarding photo pests at big occasions...

    My opinon..... not the first time Westerners have behaved like that especially towards monks. To them their Christian religion is Number 1! All other's are just nonsense. To the photographer he most likely felt he has no need to show any respect to some bald kids in robes. Get the shot is more important.

    No matter if you are doing your work or commissioned by temple,

    firstly you dont go tap a monk on his shoulder and give him a stop sign with you hand. Even I not a buddhist also know that is bloody disrespectful. Imagine a procession at the vactican and you go tap the priest on his shoulder and give him a stop sign? Common sense that even if you are the official photographer you dont do that right?

    secondly yes in many national geographic pics, the shots are not exactly candid but the photographers do ask them politely if they can look this way or that way. Or just tell them dont bother about me, just carry on what u are doing. Also many of them use long telephoto lenses so that the subject wont feel threatened with a camera up close and personal.

    Thirdly when confronted and asked by others, you dont react and threaten to hammer, go police etc... it makes u look really really really bad....

    When I was travelling in Myanmar, my guide told me, they dislike westerners as they never show respect even after they have told them things like dont point your feet at the buddha image etc...

  14. #34
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    Default Re: Regarding photo pests at big occasions...

    皮蛋先生
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  15. #35
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    Default Re: Regarding photo pests at big occasions...

    Quote Originally Posted by centuryegg View Post
    My opinon..... not the first time Westerners have behaved like that especially towards monks. To them their Christian religion is Number 1! All other's are just nonsense. To the photographer he most likely felt he has no need to show any respect to some bald kids in robes. Get the shot is more important.

    No matter if you are doing your work or commissioned by temple,

    firstly you dont go tap a monk on his shoulder and give him a stop sign with you hand. Even I not a buddhist also know that is bloody disrespectful. Imagine a procession at the vactican and you go tap the priest on his shoulder and give him a stop sign? Common sense that even if you are the official photographer you dont do that right?

    secondly yes in many national geographic pics, the shots are not exactly candid but the photographers do ask them politely if they can look this way or that way. Or just tell them dont bother about me, just carry on what u are doing. Also many of them use long telephoto lenses so that the subject wont feel threatened with a camera up close and personal.

    Thirdly when confronted and asked by others, you dont react and threaten to hammer, go police etc... it makes u look really really really bad....

    When I was travelling in Myanmar, my guide told me, they dislike westerners as they never show respect even after they have told them things like dont point your feet at the buddha image etc...
    Posed photos? Ah, damn.... I guess that's why I keep wondering where's that missing element between my travel photos and those of Nat'l Geo!

    The cultural clash, I guess is what makes most Asian countries so 'mystifying' to some Westerners. Even some things which we see as absolutely logical, for example a Japanese would never opt for open confrontation but would subtly drop hints of disapproval, which most Asians (except air heads) would understand at a glance sounds very alien to Westerners who are probably used to an open approach.

    Little things like this build up and eventually end up in a funny or tragic situation.

    I guess its all about tolerance and basic respect eventually. Don't say about 'understanding' since Westerners are not Asians and Asians are not Westerners. We can learn abt each other's cultural knick-knacks and give way to each other, but to truly comprehend something that had been unconsciously ingrained since birth (ie, UNDERSTAND) is next to impossible.

  16. #36
    Moderator Clown's Avatar
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    Default Re: Regarding photo pests at big occasions...

    Quote Originally Posted by Hawaiisg View Post
    you make me laugh

    how was religion disrespected?...who's rights were trampled? you were not there, neither was i. your whole passage is full of rhetoric and to make it easy for you nothing you say in this forum matters or makes a difference to me so save your breath. my remarks were for TS and so far things seem to be okay with him. I understand his position and tried to point out another view for him to see. hopefully he's okay after a bad experience. the last thing i'd like to see or anyone else for that matter is pros going toe-to-toe or amateurs for that matter, trying to get a good shot and someone freeking out simply because they remembered this thread and felt the need to get back at a certain race. that was why it was important in my view not to single out a race.
    well it's good to hear that i've brightened up someone's day. =)

    yes you were not there and since nothing matters to you, why did you talk in the first place? remarks are for him but it's for everyone to read and discuss about, that's what a forum is.

    Quote Originally Posted by Hawaiisg View Post
    things are not always what they seem and perhaps there was a reason why. we should look to understand what it is and why it is.
    this is a useless statement after all that's been said so i shall ignore it. your arguments are just so self defeating you should just give up.

    Quote Originally Posted by Hawaiisg View Post
    now after this if you have a bone to pick with me meet me at harbourfront tomorrow, you buy the coffee (starbucks) since your panties seem to be in a bunch over this and we'll discuss it. I'll be in a red shirt, silver glasses on my head, and wearing brown long khaki pants at 12 noon. my family is flying in tomorrow at 2 but i'll put aside a special time just for you...

    ...simple
    oh i'm so amused this little thread made you want to meet me.
    but alas my schedule is too packed for coffee meet-ups. getting entertained by your sentiments is already a luxury. anyway i dont own panties so i'm sure they're yours so you'd better sort them out yourself, maybe with your wife and family since they're flyin in. what better way for some family cohesion eh?

    thanks for the amusement, now back to work.

  17. #37

    Default Re: Regarding photo pests at big occasions...

    you just don't get it buddy. for everything or question i've said i backed it up with logic, reasons or a legit possibility of understanding of why a situation was what it was. you seem to think with emotion which can make it difficult for you to understand that things are not always what they seem. when TS made it clear about his wife, it was cool and i agreed with him but somehow this seemed to have gotten by all your famous quoting. i even offered a legit possibility as to why the pro was how he was, but you seemed to have missed that also in our quotes or at least in any rational thought. i offered possible reasons for all to think about and whether people agreed with them or not it was ok.

    what did you offer that was constructive? you just choose to bark like an irritating dog and i'll be straight up...you're barking up the wrong tree and i don't play hide behind the computer. you should've been looking at what i was really saying to TS. You should've also saw that the person it was intended to (TS) seems to be ok and the matter therefore should be dropped. the sad thing is you are probably going to do this same bullsh*t again with someone else.

    you remind me of a doctor here in singapore. i write for a golf magazine...no worries i write better there than here who wrote to my editor to say i used a word wrong. i had to pull different ways the word is used not just here but all over the world to show her i was right and the doctor was wrong. bottom line, this doctor was wrong because he was so closed minded to realize that a word ( i forgot what it was) as he knows it can be used differently in other parts of the world, including here. he saw a word but did not see how it was used in context and used in an artistic way. all he saw was one word and the one word got to him and he couldn't see past it...same scenario here (emotions). he could not see the reasons or how it could be used the way it was. again, just like you. believe it or not, i'm trying to help you expand your view on things. It might be in a sarcastic way, maybe, yeah, i am being sarcastic, but for the love of rechargable baterries at least argue your point with something constructive for me.

    if you can't make it tomorrow no worries you still owe me a starbucks...ice blended mocha no whip cream

    have a good day buddy

  18. #38
    Moderator Clown's Avatar
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    Default Re: Regarding photo pests at big occasions...

    Quote Originally Posted by Hawaiisg View Post
    you just don't get it buddy. for everything or question i've said i backed it up with logic, reasons or a legit possibility of understanding of why a situation was what it was. you seem to think with emotion which can make it difficult for you to understand that things are not always what they seem. when TS made it clear about his wife, it was cool and i agreed with him but somehow this seemed to have gotten by all your famous quoting. i even offered a legit possibility as to why the pro was how he was, but you seemed to have missed that also in our quotes or at least in any rational thought. i offered possible reasons for all to think about and whether people agreed with them or not it was ok.

    what did you offer that was constructive? you just choose to bark like an irritating dog and i'll be straight up...you're barking up the wrong tree and i don't play hide behind the computer. you should've been looking at what i was really saying to TS. You should've also saw that the person it was intended to (TS) seems to be ok and the matter therefore should be dropped. the sad thing is you are probably going to do this same bullsh*t again with someone else.

    you remind me of a doctor here in singapore. i write for a golf magazine...no worries i write better there than here who wrote to my editor to say i used a word wrong. i had to pull different ways the word is used not just here but all over the world to show her i was right and the doctor was wrong. bottom line, this doctor was wrong because he was so closed minded to realize that a word ( i forgot what it was) as he knows it can be used differently in other parts of the world, including here. he saw a word but did not see how it was used in context and used in an artistic way. all he saw was one word and the one word got to him and he couldn't see past it...same scenario here (emotions). he could not see the reasons or how it could be used the way it was. again, just like you. believe it or not, i'm trying to help you expand your view on things. It might be in a sarcastic way, maybe, yeah, i am being sarcastic, but for the love of rechargable baterries at least argue your point with something constructive for me.

    if you can't make it tomorrow no worries you still owe me a starbucks...ice blended mocha no whip cream

    have a good day buddy
    nice words, oh all-knowing golf magazine writer. sad thing is that golfers have to read your bullsh*t in the mag but then again it's not my problem.

    u can hound all you want but i dont have anymore time to waste on a bigot like you.

    good day to you too.
    Last edited by Clown; 1st March 2007 at 12:53 AM.

  19. #39

    Default Re: Regarding photo pests at big occasions...

    This is an interesting discussion. I am totally against disrespecting other religions or supporting aggression but I think this case clearly implies there is a difference in cultural practice. But more importantly, often times, presenting a personal experience on CS can dangerously promote a very 1-sided view of a situation that many of us are not even aware of and every sentiment and feeling expressed becomes highly biased. Even the poster himself may not be entirely certain on the true picture involved.

    If the American photog was a professional, he possibly could have obtained prior permission for the shoot. Maybe he did discuss with the chief monk that at any point in time, he might wish to stop the young boy monks. "Is that ok?" he might have asked. And he had been given the Go ahead.

    As for tapping on shoulders and giving the so-called Stop sign, I see that as gestures. It was done very likely bcos the American photog could not speak the Laotian language. As for the description that he was "aggressive", I really don't know about that. Aggressive to what extent? He shoved the boys around by the shoulders? He showed an angry face? He pointed his middle finger? Or he shouted at the boys? Or have the tapping of shoulders and Stop hand gesture been biasedly construed as being "aggressive"?

    Or perhaps the burly guy has a straight-looking, don't mess with me face. But you'd be surprised. As we know, ang mohs are generally bigger sized than us and some of them have that kind of "aggressive" look but really, after you speak with them, they are really just like any of us. If you go to the US and you see these 6ft 4" black guys and you go like "Uh oh... Intimidating! Bad guys??!" That's bad stereotype.

    As for those who wish to argue that his big cam = aggressive, that's sterotype too. He's a pro. That's his tool.

    Or maybe he was in a hurry, he needed to get THE shot quickly, so he might look impatient. Or maybe that's just the way he works. A hard worker who wants to do his job well. (Yes, unfortunate that he tapped shoulders but I've already mentioned the lack of mutual understanding and culture differences.) I'm sure you have seen such photogs among us too. Snapping away "aggressively" because of their enthusiasm but you know they are not aggressive by nature.

    So now picture this... This photog guy was doing his best to get his shots and then out of the blue, he was told by an unknown smaller sized? Chinese? guy it's rude to shoot in a certain way etc etc. Yes, that's how racism can get sparked... by the craziest or seemingly harmless situations. That probably brought out the ugliness in him by demeaning biasedly on his part that the poster as a Singaporean. It's equivalent to you teaching him what to do!

    It's psychological... It's like you see this car on the road not showing signal. The driver knows it and quietly feels a little guilty himself. But you stop next to him at the red light and ask him to wind down his window, saying: "Hey, in future, please be considerate by showing your signal!" If he's an easy going guy, he'd prob say "Thanks pal, sorry about that. It was a lapse in my driving." But we know things ain't so simple. A good deal of drivers take that you are challenging them. They feel their pride at stake. Yes, they felt a tad guilty initially but now, they want to defend their act. They'll prob say something to you, like "You've got a problem is it?" or "You wanna fight?" In short, in social situations, people don't like being told what to do even though they know they are in the wrong. That's how fights and quarrels sometimes happen.

    I've also seen Singaporeans being slammed for littering and dirtying the toilets or stealing items while on tour overseas. And we often hear of inconsderate MRT commuters who pretend to sleep on the trains and not want to give up seats to those in need. Yet, we have also been praised for being helpful and polite. How do we reconcile these differing views? We can't. They are situational.

    For the American guy's case, we really don't know what the situation is. So I will neither support his actions nor blame him for how he behaved. It's very situational. To him, he felt intruded, provoked by a pesky stanger who was interrupting his work. To the poster, he was being mindful of the need to respect others' religion, and he takes on a view that the tapping of shoulders is rude. Unfortunately, the American guy didn't think this way.

    I'm just presenting another point of view. No flames on me also pls. Just some food for thought.

  20. #40

    Default Re: Regarding photo pests at big occasions...

    Quote Originally Posted by Hawaiisg View Post
    i know what your saying but he probably had set his own working limits with the monks. consider he cannot ask them to stop or take a pic in their native language, therefore has to make a "stop" gesture or physically touch them. second, if he felt the monks did not like it, then surely he would have or should have stopped. third, he probably was so into his work and also distracted because he could not communicate with them that when you approcahed him as nice as you were, he was going to be upset with whomever would throw up another "obstacle" for him.

    ...all i'm saying is that i didn't see a point in stating his nationality other than to be racial about it, and it can pass as being that way. whether i like him or not (the pro) because of looks, race, stinkyness or whatever, he has a job to do.
    David...exactly
    i offered possibilities and i said just as you did that a westerner, or even other asian nationalities for that matter may not know how to speak laotian. so what to do but perhaps make the universal gesture of stop to get pic or even as a last resort place a hand on a shoulder. wow, is this so wrong and trampling a religion?

    my argument is simply that the pro has a job to do and you will run into nice ones and bad ones. regardles of whatever world people live in, it's not perfect and sad to say courtesy is not mandatory. americans can go on about how singaporeans lack courtesy, singaporeans can go on about how americans or westerners lack courtesy...so what's the point in naming a nationality because it may only spark ill feelings towards that race. which was my other point proven by clown. the best you can do is put yourself in other people's shoes. and clown has some stink ones when he chooses to call someone a biggot. personally i'm glad he said it because now it really shows what his whole angle for this argument was. thanks clown, joker, whatever your name is.

    but i agree with you david. driving was a good example. and yeah it was unfortunate for TS, in fact through all of this i give the most credit to TS for keeping his cool, sharing his experience, then keeping his cool again in the forum.

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