Hobbes00 aka David-Police Case on the way

[alex31]

Dear All,

Please refer to this link & find out the fact: http://forums.clubsnap.org/showthread.php?t=259333

Happy Lunar New Year

[tommon]

Well as we always ask a clients, what do you want most reliable to deliver the goods or cheap as it gets. I met this individual recently, he's just to me, an overly excitable young man. What's more he's serving NS, whaterver free time he has belongs to the SAF. (No offence Hobbes just that you were wrong to accept the job when you know you can't commit)

For pro jobs don't ask freelancers (bao ka liao guys) to do your important project. That's why production houses like the one I'm in are setup to serve people like you. We don't over commit neither do we do stuff on any one individual, we have the team to complete the job to your satisfaction. All these are setup with protection for both the client and the service provider where both parties are commited to fulfill. While freelancers (unless you legally bind them with a contract which will involve legal fees) are cheap but yet all the agreement is only a war of words where it is not worth to fight over in court.

So the choice is take the small amount paid as a lesson learnt and pay the money for the real pros to do. Remember Hobbes do not have prior working experience in the pro production field nor business (he's way under charging not even enought to pay for his overheads) nor can he possibly do everything himself (which shows even more of his inexperince in the media production profession).

[Hobbes00]

Hi tommon, I agree with everything you say.. but I hope to highlight the fact that I would have finish this job - in time. And prob faster if he paid more - as I can always outsouce or put my other projects aside.

In this particular case he did mention he got rejected by production houses because he has a tight budget to work with..

So I state to him that, that I can do it for THAT low... without a fix date. I clearly state I my current situation and by no means claim to be working at the broadcast or big production houses standard.

1 month later, which isnt very long acutally. He got inpatient.. and demanded me to change the terms of the contract which we agreed on..

Anyways, I have settled this case.. Lets close this.

[jeryltan]

bro.. my advice is, next time don't compromise on price.. if it's too low, then don' take it up.. personally, if i find a job pays too low, i might as well sleep at home, or open up that slot for another potential.. photographjy / videographer is afterall mainly a hobby, no point take up a low paying job and end up feeling miserable anyway, keep in touch..

Originally Posted by Hobbes00 Hi tommon, I agree with everything you say.. but I hope to highlight the fact that I would have finish this job - in time. And prob faster if he paid more - as I can always outsouce or put my other projects aside. In this particular case he did mention he got rejected by production houses because he has a tight budget to work with.. So I state to him that, that I can do it for THAT low... without a fix date. I clearly state I my current situation and by no means claim to be working at the broadcast or big production houses standard. 1 month later, which isnt very long acutally. He got inpatient.. and demanded me to change the terms of the contract which we agreed on.. Anyways, I have settled this case.. Lets close this.

[Hobbes00]

"no point take up a low paying job and end up feeling miserable "
To be real honest, I agree with you.
I acutally did tell my clients.. I am sure most of you guys do regarding doing post-production at an accelerated speed - Will cost a fee.

So right now, I have a corporate production which they need within 2 weeks, and they increase the price by 30%.

So I have Project B which doesnt calls for a faster postproduction time and doesn't even have a deadline.

What would you do? Put Project B on the shelve and focus on the corporate production. Thats what you would do.

So Project C came in, and wanted it done within 7 days, both party agreed and sign a contract. What happens to Project B now? on the shelve again..

But would it be nice to inform the client of Project B that it will take some more time?
Yes. I did it, I also told the client that if the Project needs to be completed urgently it is possible, I have to find a way to put my other projects on hold - or get another editor to help. And focus my 100% attention on Project B - But I have to charge for that.
Will you charge for that?

Regards
Dav

[Lost Water Studios]

Quote: Hi Lost Water Studios, I dun intend to add fuel to this thread. I believe this is not the 1st time that David has upset a client. The following link I believe, is refering to him too. http://forums.clubsnap.org/showthread.php?t=253963

gryphon,
Thanks for pointing this out, I wasn't aware of a previous situation. I take my word back.

Quote: sorry but i want to ask, since TS claim that David is just 20 years old, and you knew him for 7 years, David started at a age of 13? wow, that sound similar to me, would what to know how he went that far at a young age.... TS, so how is it going on?

compro_1975,
Sorry, I don't quite understand what 'TS' means? Though, i think it was six and a half. I'm a good friend of David's dad and this is how I first gained contact with David through a minor production. I'm not quite sure how that would seem 'similar' to you?

Quote: would what to know how he went that far at a young age....

If you mean you:

Quote: 'would like to know how he went that far at such a young age....'

I can't give any reasoning to that. He became interessted in media young, and its still with him. Theres a Film Director in the Middle East, he has won numerous Hollywood awards, even other awards for his Feature Length Movies. He's 10. David's 20 and hasn't gone that far at such a young age...

Quote: Being in the same field. I think having the experience is one thing. But there is no doubt that in the two cases mentioned. Professional ethis is lacking. And that may be an area that needs to be bucked up.

Chris_Lim,
I realised you quoted me, but I didn't really understand your post sorry.

If anybody feels the need to talk to me. Or for the reason for me to provide proof that I am in fact not a 'Clone' I do have better things to do but i Can be reached on kieran@lostwaterstudios.com

Otherwise I suggest to Hobbes to leave this thread, and everybody else along with it. I think if this was a site like dvxuser.com then the topic could progress on some more and attempt to solve the issue.

Though I just purely recommend abandoning this thread and trying to privatly resolve the matter with your client. To everyone else I think theres also a lesson to be learnt. Be careful who you can trust with both your 'Personal Details' and 'Footage' whether your client or service provider.

I still recommend anybody looking for a service provider, despite your location to check out Hobbes. An average of 95% happy customers can't be wrong, can they?

Kieran Sam

[Chris Lim]

Nope. sorry wasnt quoting you.

[zekai]

so drama, its a civil suit. not worth fighting.

[JRC]

Originally Posted by Hobbes00 "no point take up a low paying job and end up feeling miserable " To be real honest, I agree with you. I acutally did tell my clients.. I am sure most of you guys do regarding doing post-production at an accelerated speed - Will cost a fee. So right now, I have a corporate production which they need within 2 weeks, and they increase the price by 30%. So I have Project B which doesnt calls for a faster postproduction time and doesn't even have a deadline. What would you do? Put Project B on the shelve and focus on the corporate production. Thats what you would do. So Project C came in, and wanted it done within 7 days, both party agreed and sign a contract. What happens to Project B now? on the shelve again.. But would it be nice to inform the client of Project B that it will take some more time? Yes. I did it, I also told the client that if the Project needs to be completed urgently it is possible, I have to find a way to put my other projects on hold - or get another editor to help. And focus my 100% attention on Project B - But I have to charge for that. Will you charge for that? Regards Dav

Hi Dav,
I see your point in this but I personally don't like this method.
What if projects always crop up and your project B keeps on dragging, and you keep on asking project B to pay more to accelerate the project. It's courting unnecessary trouble.
I rather ask for more pay and make sure they be delivered in a timeframe.

[MalcolmOng]

this places the blame on the client, as the client failed to take such initiative in the first place

[sundazz]

hi Alex and Hobbes,

both right and wrong.. I think this is not worth the case to bring to civil court at all. nobody wil gain. why not 2 parties just agree with another reasonable date for the delivery in black and white and hobbes work on it and deliver the job.

i just wanted to share my view here..

Hobbes.. i suggest in future not to take on any under budget assignment which wont benefit yourselves and the client as well. as mentioned by tommon, it is not worth the time and effort at all. someone also mentioned that we cant always shelve the low budget proj for other better budget assignment which keep coming in. Anyway I believe you have gain experience from this epidso and know wat to do in future.

Alex.. we professional have the cost to take care of and i think $550 for such job is totally way below budget. it is not even enough for 2 cameras work. plus the post productions which u need to match frame the 2 camera angle for your actions shoot for inter cut.. it is very time consuming. i hopes u have learning from this epidso as well that you are not just paying for the productions but also other factors. for this kind of productions cost atleast 1k to 2k.. (i know it well). think it is good if you can ask your organisatioin to increase the budget in future as this case has also serve as a warning to anyone who are looking for low budget productions.

I dont mean Hobbes is no good.. I think he is very good.. he has passion and excellant talent.
but be fair.. when i was only 20 yrs old and no prior working and biz experience, i may not able to handle well not oni in productions aspect but also handling biz.

btw, i know both of you..
hopes this can be settle without any legal suit.

happy new year to all!

[alex31]

Dear All,

My occupation also involved in videographer but it's real-time video aka video conferencing.

I know the price is way too low but all these cost actually comes from me & not the event itself as we are from a non-profit organisation. I have explained to David & he agreed to it. THe price is low but I told him if there is additional dvd to be made, he still will gain some profit which I manage to get ard $30 ordered.

Btw, I hope that I am speaking from a client point of view & also allow him to have two weeks to edit the tapes but he chose to forgo the money.

I have always believe a man have to keep his words.

I am meeting him tonight at Lavender MRT control station to get my footage back + $100. For those who wants to find out more or confront me with a case, I welcome you to do some. I have all those email & sms with me to show you guys.

Thank you
Alex

[ortega]

Good, fast and Cheap

You can only choose 2

Good and fast is not cheap
Good and cheap is not fast
Fast and cheap is not good

There is a lesson to be learned by both sides

[direwuff]

from the other thread in the first post

Originally Posted by Hobbes00 Re Direwuff. Check their IPs, E-mail, website and then reconsider what you said.

I can't check their IPs, email and website can be fabricated. Either way I just noted that

1. All joined in Feb 2007
2. All posting in your defence
3. Claiming to know you in person eg previous job, etc
4. Quite a few using similar kind of bombastic language however with simple spelling and grammatical errors in their posts not commensurate with their expansive vocabulary

I guess I'll leave it up to the mods. IIRC, clones are not allowed on this forum.

[tommon]

Wah why so much unhappiness able this. What's done is done. Anyway, Alex it seems like you have not tried all production houses (at least not mine). As far as Hobbes is concerned, of course you prioritise your jobs becos you only have yourself to do the jobs. Alex, the reason production houses rejected your job is not just low paying but also the fact that it seems to lack focus (no real dateline).

Look Alex let me offer you this, why don't you contact me and see what I can do to help you. Just PM you contact and I will get to you after CNY

[sundazz]

hi Alex..

hopes you and hobbes have settle in a nice way.
I know your full time job, and your organisation which is not a profit earning organisation as well.

i know both of you in person. frankly speaking, both of you are actually nice guys.. i am surprise to see this thing happened. hopes this issue can be settle peacefully.

btw i am jensen if you dont know.

cheers.
jensen

Originally Posted by alex31 Dear All, My occupation also involved in videographer but it's real-time video aka video conferencing. I know the price is way too low but all these cost actually comes from me & not the event itself as we are from a non-profit organisation. I have explained to David & he agreed to it. THe price is low but I told him if there is additional dvd to be made, he still will gain some profit which I manage to get ard $30 ordered. Btw, I hope that I am speaking from a client point of view & also allow him to have two weeks to edit the tapes but he chose to forgo the money. I have always believe a man have to keep his words. I am meeting him tonight at Lavender MRT control station to get my footage back + $100. For those who wants to find out more or confront me with a case, I welcome you to do some. I have all those email & sms with me to show you guys. Thank you Alex

[alex31]

Originally Posted by sundazz hi Alex.. hopes you and hobbes have settle in a nice way. I know your full time job, and your organisation which is not a profit earning organisation as well. i know both of you in person. frankly speaking, both of you are actually nice guys.. i am surprise to see this thing happened. hopes this issue can be settle peacefully. btw i am jensen if you dont know. cheers. jensen

Hi Jensen,

Thank you for your advise & help. We have settle it last nite with witness from both side. Btw, this thread together with the previous two will be removed by Moderator. (Hope they can do so)

I will keep in touch with you as well when I am back.

Alex

[Bluestrike]

Thread closed.