Canon XL-H1 or XH-G1 or -A1 or others ?

[Ljung]

Looking for an upgrade from FX1, any user of the Canon XL- or XH-can please share his/her experience ?
other model's / system's recommendation (compared to the above) also welcome.
will keep on googling myself, at the same time, would like to hear your experience/comment if you have any.

thanks and HAPPY CHINESE NEW YEAR to everybody!!!

[calvintan]

Definitely Canon XL-H1 followed by either G1 or A1. Both are an improvement over fx1

[Ljung]

Originally Posted by calvintan Definitely Canon XL-H1 followed by either G1 or A1. Both are an improvement over fx1

sure all are improvement over FX1.
XL-H1 is the most expensive followed by G1 and A1, mind to share any experience (besides selection based on the price.... more expensive = more features)

[Hobbes00]

Hi Ljung, let me try to help you out.

All of these cameras, H1 G1 and A1 are really awesome camera.

But you can't buy all 3 can you? So to pick "the one" you need to help me answer "the mother of all questions"... what will you use the camera for and who will view the final products?

Here are some footages of H1 shot by me (I believe there are people out there who has better screencaps.. but mines pretty decent)




Cheers.
David (XL2-er)

[calvintan]

the most important question, what's ur budget? XLH1 is around $14K, G1 and A1 are bet 5k to 9K. They have better night scene and detail than fx1. They have 20x optical zoom with L quality. They have proffessional mic input jack. Imagine this, a Fx1 with zoom lens (assume L quality) will cost fx1 plus another 2K. So the Canon A1 is definitely a good buy. Not to say Fx1 is no good, it is still a good HD cam except that with improvement in technology, newer models are better imho.

[Ljung]

wow, Hobbes, thanks for sharing, those are indeed really awesome shots!!!
in terms of picture quality, any idea is there any difference comparing between H1 with G1 or A1?
also planning to get a live mixer can it be used on either of the three models?
currently checking out on the MX4DV, any idea where should i look for it?

[tommon]

Note also all these are still HDV format, not real proHD format like HDCAM or DVCProHD which are higher res.

Why not consider a Sony HDR-V1, its about $8k.

[MalcolmOng]

I'm surprised no one has brought up the Panasonic HVX200. Its an amazing, amazing camera. Lets dissect it, and who can argue with these:
P2 solid state recording - never buy a single tape again, dropouts are a thing of the past, no moving parts so no wear and tear, you transfer your footage immediately, you get true slowmo and overcranking in the camera thanks to the variable framerates, along with the ability to shoot on a variety of formats including DVCpro HD and normal tape.
4:2:2 color space recording - less blockiness and artifacting

The merits of the camera are many, but another i'd like to bring up is the form factor. Some might argue that its 'not pro', etc. But i personally use the DVX and who can argue with a 3.5 inch lcd screen for focussing? A smaller form factor means a much much handier camera thats easy to squeeze into tight spaces. I always prefer the DVX form factor over that of the XL2 - not the least of that is because the XL2 isn't a 'true' shoulder mounted camera. Lets face it, the shoulder mount on the XL2 is pretty useless, and your hands are still supporting all the heft of the camera. Furthermore, ever tried filming in a car with that sucker? Lastly, with the XL2(or cameras like the xl2), you're limited to using the viewfinder, which limits the angles you can use the camera from. Not to mention the fact that i find it on the whole alot harder to focus with the viewfinder, vs the much larger viewfinder that the DVX offers.

Just my .02

[Hobbes00]

His point is.. he loves Panasonic

I must admit the fact that HVX does shoot at a colour space recording never possible in the prosumer level unless you have a deck. So you get 4:2:2 and no cables and wires sticking out of your camera - but you only have 20mins limit - it runs on P2 Cards.

If it wasn't for the 20min issue - which could be solved by purchasing a firestore, the HVX is really in singaporean terms, 'solid'

However, as a FX1 user, do you feel you have already maximise your camera fully?
Because getting an expensive HDV cam doesnt not mean your footages will be better - I have used 3 different HDV cameras extensively, A1 G1 H1 and I must say the only way you can tell the difference betwee A1 and H1 is in a controlled shoot where you have sufficent lighting, etc.

Unless you are doing really specific sort of production I feel that the FX1 is good enuff.

Please let me know what you think. maybe you could post some of grabs from your footage in here.

Stay safe.
David

[MalcolmOng]

I'd like you to clarify what you mean by 'unless you have a deck'. Its not the deck that determines the quality, its the recording format.

Also, firstly, larger P2 cards are coming out with capacities of up to 16gb, and i think theres even a 32gb model coming out. The P2 medium is hot swappable, so you can just buy two cards and clear them while you're shooting, or buy several empty cards. It'll really be worth the investment.

[jaegersing]

Originally Posted by MalcolmOng I'd like you to clarify what you mean by 'unless you have a deck'. Its not the deck that determines the quality, its the recording format. Also, firstly, larger P2 cards are coming out with capacities of up to 16gb, and i think theres even a 32gb model coming out. The P2 medium is hot swappable, so you can just buy two cards and clear the while you're shooting, or buy several empty cards. It'll really be worth the investment.

I guess he means that if you have an H1 or G1 you can record SDI into a deck and get 4:2:2 that way.

Regarding the hot swapping, is it possible to do that while shooting without disturbing the shot? I think my hands are not so steady.

[MalcolmOng]

You'll probably need an assistant...

EDIT: btw i forgot to mention - the SDI gives full 4:4:4 colorspace, not 4:2:2. Also you'll need to transfer it directly to a storage medium, and not a deck. All a deck does is to transfer footage from tapes into the archiving medium

[jaegersing]

Originally Posted by MalcolmOng You'll probably need an assistant... EDIT: btw i forgot to mention - the SDI gives full 4:4:4 colorspace, not 4:2:2. Also you'll need to transfer it directly to a storage medium, and not a deck. All a deck does is to transfer footage from tapes into the archiving medium

Hi Malcolm. I was talking about a deck like the Wafian HR-1, which is a video recorder with SDI input and internal hard disk. It uses a Cineform codec to record 4:2:2 format video from the uncompressed 4:4:4 SDI stream.

I suppose capturing uncompressed is possible, but it needs a good RAID system and is probably not as robust at the moment. Of course, technology is improving all the time so things will get better before too long.

Regarding hotswapping of P2 cards, rather than budget for an HVX plus assistant, I think I'll wait for the next generation camera and higher capacity storage cards. This will be a more attractive option for me.

[jaegersing]

Just did another search and found a deck that offers uncompressed recording. It's the Doremi V1-UHD. The first link gives info on the deck. The second link is a table of recording times for different formats with different hard disk configurations. The requirements for recording uncompressed 4:4:4 video are still quite scary!

http://www.doremilabs.com/products/v1uhd.htm

http://www.doremilabs.com/pdfcharts/uncomp.pdf

[Hobbes00]

The deck I was talking about is the 10k Wafian..
If we can afford all these gadgets i think getting a http://red.com/ would be neat.

[jaegersing]

Originally Posted by Hobbes00 The deck I was talking about is the 10k Wafian.. If we can afford all these gadgets i think getting a http://red.com/ would be neat.

Ya, I also want!

[kristian]

SDI comes in 4:2:2 or 4:4:4. Don't be confused.

[jaegersing]

Originally Posted by kristian SDI comes in 4:2:2 or 4:4:4. Don't be confused.

Ya, good point, thanks. The H1 and G1 SDI outputs are uncompressed 4:2:2, not 4:4:4.

[MalcolmOng]

oh. I stand corrected then.

[Hommie]

Originally Posted by calvintan the most important question, what's ur budget? XLH1 is around $14K, G1 and A1 are bet 5k to 9K. They have better night scene and detail than fx1. They have 20x optical zoom with L quality. They have proffessional mic input jack. Imagine this, a Fx1 with zoom lens (assume L quality) will cost fx1 plus another 2K. So the Canon A1 is definitely a good buy. Not to say Fx1 is no good, it is still a good HD cam except that with improvement in technology, newer models are better imho.

Where can get A1 at 5K? Do share!