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Thread: 1/Focal Length & handholdability

  1. #81
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    Default Re: 1/Focal Length & handholdability

    Quote Originally Posted by wong1979 View Post
    Hi Pai, I thank u for ur participation. I actually thought u did an actual test Even though not, I see ur good intention.

    To L.lee:

    Your test is not what I mean. Guess I have confused u by talking about distance. Distance from subject don't affect your handshake. If you are to crop the one at 8m, say at 600 X 400, against the one at 5m. It shd be the same. When I talk about distance, I actually meant that when one uses a crop-factored camera, we are actually shooting further away when compared to a full-frame counterpart using the same focal length. And hence, the further away, the handshake will be amplified on your image output.
    I see.., ok lets do it again... first lets clarify:

    1. The discussion point here is to use a FF camera to shot an object at say 5m.
    2. Next is to use a 1.6x crop factor camera to shoot at the same object, this time move further away from the object say 8m, assuming by doing so will obtain similar frame coverage as in (1).
    3. Which of the above generates greater degree of handshake is the question right?

    Cheers

  2. #82
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    Default Re: 1/Focal Length & handholdability

    Quote Originally Posted by crusher View Post
    You only did 1 test and you believe it is conclusive? Sloppy and unscientific.
    It does not matter one or 10 tests, it was done by me alone in an uncontrolled environment. So it is understood that it can not be SCIENTIFIC and it was not my intention to be scientific

    BTW, the test is just meant for general forum discussion purpose only. Cheers

  3. #83
    Senior Member +evenstar's Avatar
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    Default Re: 1/Focal Length & handholdability

    as many have said, the 1/focal length is just a guide, is subjective, and the limit of handholding varies from person to person.
    1/10s at 200mm


    100% crop


    anyway here's a pic of sensor sizes for reference
    eat. drink. shoot

  4. #84

    Default Re: 1/Focal Length & handholdability

    Quote Originally Posted by +evenstar View Post
    as many have said, the 1/focal length is just a guide, is subjective, and the limit of handholding varies from person to person.
    1/10s at 200mm
    As above

    100% crop
    As above

    anyway here's a pic of sensor sizes for reference
    As above
    I don't see how your post in here can contribute anything constructive besides wasting people's time while waiting for your images to load and boosting one's ego.

    The point here is not to argue whether you should use the guide. We are discussing whether the guide should be either 'A' or 'B', with valid points to prove. No thank you

  5. #85
    Senior Member +evenstar's Avatar
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    Default Re: 1/Focal Length & handholdability

    Quote Originally Posted by wong1979 View Post
    I don't see how your post in here can contribute anything constructive besides wasting people's time while waiting for your images to load and boosting one's ego.

    The point here is not to argue whether you should use the guide. We are discussing whether the guide should be either 'A' or 'B', with valid points to prove. No thank you
    you can post your own images and boost your ego. i'm not interested in ego-boosting.

    eat. drink. shoot

  6. #86
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    Default Re: 1/Focal Length & handholdability

    Hmm.... ppl will think that as you posted the pics to display your skill. A comment perhaps will do in this case. Cos the pic would mean to have evidence that you can make it at that slow shutter speed. As said, does it mean anything?
    Andy Ang :lovegrin: - "A Photo speaks a thousand words. Have you spoken today?"
    APAD | Blog

  7. #87

    Default Re: 1/Focal Length & handholdability

    Quote Originally Posted by L.Lee View Post
    I see.., ok lets do it again... first lets clarify:

    1. The discussion point here is to use a FF camera to shot an object at say 5m.
    2. Next is to use a 1.6x crop factor camera to shoot at the same object, this time move further away from the object say 8m, assuming by doing so will obtain similar frame coverage as in (1).
    3. Which of the above generates greater degree of handshake is the question right?

    Cheers
    When the amount of handshake is the same, the further you stand away from your subject, the more "movement" is recorded when taking a picture. This can be easily seen from trigonometry.

    Let us quantify the amount of handshake by the degree the camera is tilted between the extremes, say 10 degrees for example. Trigonometry tells us that the amount your subject "moves" when your camera is tilted 10 degrees due to handshake is equals to:

    distance from subject * tan 10 degrees

    This equation tells you straight away that the further you stand away from your subject, the more the subject moves due to your handshake. This explains why for longer focal lengths, handshake is a bigger problem: it is simply because when you are using longer focal lengths, you most likely standing further away from your subject that when you are using a shorter focal length.

    Coming back to the 1.6x crop factor cameras, as mentioned by L.Lee, to get the same frame as an FF camera using the same focal length lens, you'd have to stand 1.6x further away from your subject. Our equation tells us that the subject will move 1.6x more as a result of whatever handshake there happens to be, so in this case, you have to increase your shutter speed. However, if you still stand the same distance away, then the handshake is the same, but then again, we are not talking about the same frame either.

  8. #88

    Default Re: 1/Focal Length & handholdability

    Was logged out before sending the post in, and hit post again after logging in without knowing the original post was already posted.
    Last edited by denmad; 21st February 2007 at 05:04 PM. Reason: Unintentional double posting.

  9. #89
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    Default Re: 1/Focal Length & handholdability

    IMO, all these arguments are just trying to split hair la.

    This is what I do:

    Shooting at stationary tiger at the zoo. Using a 300mm on a Nikon dSLR, I would use 1/250s confidently.

    When I was shooting a F16 flying across me at Mach0.5 during the last PLAB open house, using a 300mm, I used a much higher shutter speed like 1/750s.

    Just remember that this is merely a rule-of-thumb - a simple or simplified rule as a guide. Depends on the situation, depends on the camera operator, better known as a photog.
    I love big car, big house, big lenses, but small apertures.

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