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Thread: 1/Focal Length & handholdability

  1. #1

    Default 1/Focal Length & handholdability

    We have read or learnt somewhere that, as a general guide, we should apply the "1/focal length" rule (which is applicable for 35mm format) for the minimum shutter speed in handheld shots.

    (1) Do you think that crop factor has to be factored in when using crop factored sensors?

    (2) If you are to focus a very small object such as a coin using a macro lens at 1:1, does the "1/focal length" rule still hold true?

    Pls share your insight

  2. #2

    Default Re: 1/Focal Length & handholdability

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    a) nope ,never factored in
    b) nope if you use proper techniques and have good light, external or otherwise.
    Last edited by Belle&Sebastain; 5th February 2007 at 11:13 PM.

  3. #3
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    Default Re: 1/Focal Length & handholdability

    lol
    that was funny

  4. #4

    Default Re: 1/Focal Length & handholdability

    Its all on the photographer, if you are good enough, you can be a tripod and hold it for a 10s exposure. If not even 1/200 wide you still can get handshake

  5. #5

    Default Re: 1/Focal Length & handholdability

    it depends on what kind of subjects ypu are shooting also. if is still can go much lower. rapid moving objects then i mostly go up to 1/400 to 1/640.. even wen my lens is 200mm focal length

  6. #6

    Default Re: 1/Focal Length & handholdability

    1) i.e. if hand holding a Dx 1.5x crop factor at 200mm (35mm), making it 350mm, you should (AS A GUIDE) use a speed no slower then 1/350s.

    2) no, I would strongly recommend using a tripod as the manification is larger. Any small movement (i.e. handshake) would be magnified.

  7. #7
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    Default Re: 1/Focal Length & handholdability

    Quote Originally Posted by ipin View Post
    2) no, I would strongly recommend using a tripod as the manification is larger. Any small movement (i.e. handshake) would be magnified.
    I beg to different. Use flash .

    Regards,
    Arto.

  8. #8

    Default Re: 1/Focal Length & handholdability

    Quote Originally Posted by wong1979 View Post
    We have read or learnt somewhere that, as a general guide, we should apply the "1/focal length" rule (which is applicable for 35mm format) for the minimum shutter speed in handheld shots.

    (1) Do you think that crop factor has to be factored in when using crop factored sensors?

    (2) If you are to focus a very small object such as a coin using a macro lens at 1:1, does the "1/focal length" rule still hold true?

    Pls share your insight
    This issue has been discussed numerous times.

    1) No need to factor in the crop factor. 1/actual focal length as guide and not the 35mm format equivalent focal length. This is most evident in much smaller sensor digital cameras. I have average steady hands and been shooting without handshake blur countless times at 1/125 easily on my prosumer camera at 71.2mm actual focal length (280mm on 35mm format equivalent) and 1/15 when I don't zoom in (8.9mm actual focal length, 35mm on 35mm format equivalent). 1/60 is a borderline case at 71.2mm actual focal length (280mm on 35mm format equivalent) with handshake blur in some shots. Here I'm of course talking about aim, compose and then shoot quickly at performances such as those at Spring in the City or CNY celebration at Chinatown etc. where the dancers/singers wouldn't wait for you to take your own sweet time to steady your camera and also I'm shooting in standing position without any support (not prone down and with some bottle or railing for support).

    http://forums.clubsnap.org/showpost....9&postcount=44

    http://forums.clubsnap.org/showpost....6&postcount=47

    http://forums.clubsnap.org/showpost....9&postcount=48
    Last edited by Clockunder; 6th February 2007 at 11:55 AM.

  9. #9

    Default Re: 1/Focal Length & handholdability

    Try this 1/Focal Length & handholdability test

    Make yourself into 3 condition status: no tired, tired and very tired.

    Condition 1 - not tired
    - Ensure you have enough rest and energy
    - Set your lens focal length to 28mm wide angle
    - Set your camera to shutter priority and test the shots (on a still object at a fixed distance) with different shutter speed according to the table
    - Repeat the test with different focal length according to the table

    Condition 2 - tired
    - Do jumping jack 5 counts of 8
    - Set your lens focal length to 28mm wide angle
    - Set your camera to shutter priority and test the shots (on a still object at a fixed distance) with different shutter speed according to the table
    - Repeat the test with different focal length according to the table

    Condition 3 - very tired
    - Do jumping jack 30 counts of 8
    - Set your lens focal length to 28mm wide angle
    - Set your camera to shutter priority and test the shots (on a still object at a fixed distance) with different shutter speed according to the table
    - Repeat the test with different focal length according to the table



    Load all the photos into your computer to check for sharpness. Those sharp one marks with tick and blur one marks with cross. You will have your own table of your 1/Focal Length & handholdability.

    Cheer
    Last edited by megaweb; 6th February 2007 at 11:23 AM.

  10. #10

    Default Re: 1/Focal Length & handholdability

    Very funny...

    If you are handholding with a bout of hiccups.. I wonder if it will affect sharpness..

  11. #11

    Default Re: 1/Focal Length & handholdability

    I hope someone with a full-frame DSLR and a 1.6X DSLR can share something or help to experiment.

    (1) Mount a 300mm lens on your full-frame DSLR, shoot an object that fills up about half the frame. Shoot using shutter priority. Starting from say 1/320 secs. Slow your speed at 1/3 stop decrement until you have felt that motion blur by handshake is evident in your pic. Note the last most acceptable shutterspeed. Try a few more times and see if this "minimum comfortable" speed is good enough for most shots.

    (2) Now use the 300mm lens on ur 1.6X DSLR. Have to move 1.6 times further away so that object fills the same amount of frame in (1). Shoot using the "minimum comfortable" speed and see if you can achieve the sharpness in (1).

  12. #12
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    Default Re: 1/Focal Length & handholdability

    This is just A GUIDE.

    Whether you choose to peruse it is up to your own discretion.

  13. #13

    Default Re: 1/Focal Length & handholdability

    Quote Originally Posted by germ_boi View Post
    This is just A GUIDE.

    Whether you choose to peruse it is up to your own discretion.
    Perhaps I should paraphrase my question:

    Should you increase your usual handhold shutterspeed if u are to switch from a full-frame SLR to a crop factored DSLR?

    For people who started out on a cropped factored DSLR, this does not matter to them because they don't experience it and hence the irrelevance of comparison.

    Of course I/we know this is just a guide and user mileage might vary, but read my paraphrased question again. This is not an arguement as to whether one should follow but rather on some basic fundamental issues which some may see not important.
    Last edited by wong1979; 6th February 2007 at 12:25 PM.

  14. #14
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    Default Re: 1/Focal Length & handholdability

    Quote Originally Posted by wong1979 View Post
    Perhaps I should paraphrase my question:

    Should you increase your usual handhold shutterspeed if u are to switch from a full-frame SLR to a crop factored DSLR?

    For people who started out on a cropped factored DSLR, this does not matter to them because they don't experience it and hence the irrelevance of comparison.

    Of course I/we know this is just a guide and user mileage might vary, but read my paraphrased question again. This is not an arguement as to whether one should follow but rather on some basic fundamental issues which some may see not important.
    No.

    The lens' focal length for 35mm SLR and 1.5x, 1.6x or 2x crop factor remain the same.

    But, it is still only a guide!

    Regards,
    Arto.

  15. #15

    Default Re: 1/Focal Length & handholdability

    Quote Originally Posted by Artosoft View Post
    No.

    The lens' focal length for 35mm SLR and 1.5x, 1.6x or 2x crop factor remain the same.

    But, it is still only a guide!

    Regards,
    Arto.
    Thanks for the input. I assume u have owned and thoroughly used both types of camera to say a "No." and not just pure conjecture.

  16. #16
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    Default Re: 1/Focal Length & handholdability

    Quote Originally Posted by wong1979 View Post
    Thanks for the input. I assume u have owned and thoroughly used both types of camera to say a "No." and not just pure conjecture.
    My first SLR is Yashica FX3 Super 2000. More than 10 years ago...

    Regards,
    Arto.

  17. #17

    Default Re: 1/Focal Length & handholdability

    Quote Originally Posted by wong1979 View Post
    Thanks for the input. I assume u have owned and thoroughly used both types of camera to say a "No." and not just pure conjecture.
    Try using a torch light and shine on a wall.

    How much the spot of light shone on the wall shakes depends on how far you're from the wall (i.e. similar to focal length) and how much you shake your torch light.

    If the light is recorded faster than any shake is experienced on the back screen (i.e. image sensor), then you get a sharp image.

    How big the wall is (i.e. similar to sensor size and therefore the crop factor) has no bearing on the amount of shake you see.
    Last edited by Clockunder; 6th February 2007 at 01:04 PM.

  18. #18

    Default Re: 1/Focal Length & handholdability

    Clockunder's post in no.8 seems to agree that the 1/focal length guide need not follow the crop factor. But it's not a valid point to substantiate the claim. He could have very good handholding tecnique. Need to have a comparison test between a full-frame and 1.6 Factored DSLR.

  19. #19

    Default Re: 1/Focal Length & handholdability

    Quote Originally Posted by Artosoft View Post
    I beg to different. Use flash .

    Regards,
    Arto.
    I know, but TS never mention anything about using a flash.
    Maybe he/she's using strobes?

  20. #20

    Default Re: 1/Focal Length & handholdability

    its just a guide, with experience, even with higher shutter speeds will not garantuee a sharp image, the best way is to really go out and try with each camera, crop or not is a insignifacant factor for me, the weight of each lens and size of camera body and what state i'm shooting (clam, excited) is so much more important.

    no point going so by the book, that way your photography (art) is already hampered by imposed rules

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