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Thread: Trolls....

  1. #1

    Unhappy Trolls....

    Once again, I can't stop the thinking that those who have no idea, are not aware, or does not repect Internet Etiquttes in forums, chats, etc shouldn't be online at all. If you choose to be a troll, lives like a troll.

    Troll - n : (Scandinavian folklore) a supernatural creature (either a dwarf or a giant) that is supposed to live in caves or in the mountains.

    You don't really have to go searching for books like "10 Big Rules of Internet", "Do's and Don'ts on the Net", etc. Etiquttes that I'm refering here are basically a reflection of your personalities, mentalitys, EQs. To the simplest extent, your basic courtesy. If you have no idea about how to respect each another, or how to gain some respects, perhaps you should start thinking about it. Hiding behind the monitor and starts thinking you are l33t won't bring you anywhere.

    It's nice to see the founders of the forum included a buy/sell thread. It's definitely a good place to look for good deals. Some wanted to throw off their gears, perhaps to upgrade, or to recover some cash. Some wanted to try out some new stuffs, or to save some cash there. Sounds good, ain't it? Unfortunately, there are some trolls who feels bored in their cave, and decided to go in for a walk, at the same time, makes some funny remarks.

    "Wah, so expensive"
    "I can buy this at $xxx elsewhere."
    "XX place selling at $xx price, why are you selling at this price?"
    "Wah you ask for $xxx, can you cut down to $xxx / 2 ?"
    "I won't pay $xxx for a xx year product, not worth it"
    "Your product is xxx years old, you should sell at $xxx *75%"
    "This product is (1+1 =20) (2+5=100), I know it, cos I'm using it!!"
    "This product is shitty, xxx is way better"
    "Why didn't you post the pros and cons? What's your intention??"
    etc, etc

    Perhaps these trolls should start to understand the fact that this is the Buy/Sell Thread. The name clearly states that it's for buying and selling only, not for some technical reviews/comparison, or some playground to throw out their fuss. The seller can post any price or any words they wants, if there are buyers, great! It should be another happy deal made. If no , it's up to the seller to adjust his price. It's him/her who are selling it anyway.

    Perhaps some of those trolls just wanted to share some experience. Well, feel free to do it, but in another thread. Learn to respect the thread starter. Just imagine that you are eating Swiss Mushroom burgers in Macdonalds and talking loudly about it, only because you thinks Burger King are way better.

    Besides the Buy/Sell thread, some trolls choose to take a walk elsewhere, for instance, Photo Galleries. You can see their footprints everywhere. In fact , getting more footprints recently.

    "Why you shoot at this angle? You style is wrong, you should use xxx style"
    "Your shots so-so, you should follow those shots in forums.xxx.com"
    "You can take that shot only because you are using xxx cameras"
    "Want some examples? My shots are not presentable but you should listen to me, cos I surf forums.xxx.com"
    etc etc....

    * togu shake head

    Public forums like CS is definitely a good place for peeps having the same interest to learn from each another, makes some friends, benefits more whenever there are good deals. Who knows, you might be the next one who saved some cash from here.



    Please note that this is the Kopitiam thread, not some technical reviews of "Trolls".
    Last edited by togu; 22nd February 2003 at 11:19 AM.

  2. #2
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  3. #3
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    woof woof


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    Good call. Nicely written.
    --
    "High Wired, Dream Sired"

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    Good essay Togu!

    I believe there is a troll inside all of us, so it's depend on the individual to control their own troll. That what makes the different between HUMAN and DIVINE.
    W204FL

  7. #7

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    Actually the origin of the word "troll" as used in internet parlance, originates from the fishing method whereby a boat pulls a trawling ("trolling") net behind it, and pulls up all sorts of fish and other sea creatures.

    http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=troll

    It refers to making a deliberately inflammatory post in order to provoke a response. The troll(er), not having a life, so to speak, takes delight in whatever response he can get (ie whatever fish he gets from trolling his net). It gives him (or her) a sense of self importance that people will bother responding to his or her comment. A wanker, in other words.

    Nothing, I'm afraid, to do with the Scandinavian gnomes.

  8. #8
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    Originally posted by StreetShooter
    Actually the origin of the word "troll" as used in internet parlance, originates from the fishing method whereby a boat pulls a trawling ("trolling") net behind it, and pulls up all sorts of fish and other sea creatures.

    http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=troll

    It refers to making a deliberately inflammatory post in order to provoke a response. The troll(er), not having a life, so to speak, takes delight in whatever response he can get (ie whatever fish he gets from trolling his net). It gives him (or her) a sense of self importance that people will bother responding to his or her comment. A wanker, in other words.

    Nothing, I'm afraid, to do with the Scandinavian gnomes.
    That's what I thought so too....but it does not take away his intention and meaning.

    for you.

  9. #9

    Talking

    me got nothing to say but only thiz .....

    1 up for u togu .....


  10. #10
    Sin
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    Default Re: Trolls....

    Originally posted by togu
    Please note that this is the Kopitiam thread, not some technical reviews of "Trolls".
    Alamak, for a moment there I thought some one as prominent as Togu has finally decided to do a profile and review of our race!
    (above statement is "tongue-in-cheek", absolutely no offense meant.)

    Actually, nowadays, it's common to find computers and net connection in caves and in the mountain. It's unfair to picture our home as in fairy tales. Those typical images of homes under bridges are centuries old. The trolls have moved along in terms of technology, just like our human counterparts have started to live in taller and taller buildings.
    (above statement was poking fun at you, Togu. Just friendly ribbing. However, if you REALLY want to feel offended. Please go ahead. I'll apologize next time I see you.)

    As for Internet etiquette, really it has changed over time. Remember the time when a question that's in the FAQ pops up and everybody starts scolding the poster? Well, with bandwidth as they are nowadays, people dont mind that much now. So "etiquette" do change over time, perhaps we'd like to mention which version are we using here? 3.1? 95? 98?
    (10% sarcasm is injected into the above statement)

    I do agree that basic respect should be given, not only online, but in everyday life on and offline. However, there are so many kinds of people, attitudes, personalities, mentalities, culture and philosophy, not everyone can see eye to eye or even be on the same "wavelength" even if you're using the same language.
    (No sarcasm whatsoever, above is my point of view.)

    What is my point? well, everyone could start being less uptight and learn to relax. Take things in a lighter tone. Have some fun. Learn to be tolerant to other points of view and beliefs. Not every thing is meant to attack you. Learn to lean back in your seat once in a while and laugh the world away.
    (above is again my point of view, or rather my philosophy. No sarcasm or malice. You can disagree with what I said, no problem at all. You can think and even call me an idiot, I'm fine with that.)

    BTW: Telling people what kind of "etiquette", beliefs, moral values, ethics, etc they should practice or live by, is also sort of l33t. "What made you think you're so right and I'm so wrong?" Of course, "advice" can always be given. Just don't force it down the other's throat.
    (ooooh, above paragraph IS flame-bait. I just can't stop being a troll. Oh well, a troll will be a troll will be a troll.)


    (This is "kopitiam" rite? Hope no one offended by my post. If you are, then......read my sig.... )

  11. #11

    Default

    Originally posted by StreetShooter
    Actually the origin of the word "troll" as used in internet parlance, originates from the fishing method whereby a boat pulls a trawling ("trolling") net behind it, and pulls up all sorts of fish and other sea creatures.

    http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=troll

    It refers to making a deliberately inflammatory post in order to provoke a response. The troll(er), not having a life, so to speak, takes delight in whatever response he can get (ie whatever fish he gets from trolling his net). It gives him (or her) a sense of self importance that people will bother responding to his or her comment. A wanker, in other words.

    Nothing, I'm afraid, to do with the Scandinavian gnomes.

  12. #12

    Default Re: Re: Trolls....

    Originally posted by Sin


    Alamak, for a moment there I thought some one as prominent as Togu has finally decided to do a profile and review of our race!
    (above statement is "tongue-in-cheek", absolutely no offense meant.)

    Actually, nowadays, it's common to find computers and net connection in caves and in the mountain. It's unfair to picture our home as in fairy tales. Those typical images of homes under bridges are centuries old. The trolls have moved along in terms of technology, just like our human counterparts have started to live in taller and taller buildings.
    (above statement was poking fun at you, Togu. Just friendly ribbing. However, if you REALLY want to feel offended. Please go ahead. I'll apologize next time I see you.)

    As for Internet etiquette, really it has changed over time. Remember the time when a question that's in the FAQ pops up and everybody starts scolding the poster? Well, with bandwidth as they are nowadays, people dont mind that much now. So "etiquette" do change over time, perhaps we'd like to mention which version are we using here? 3.1? 95? 98?
    (10% sarcasm is injected into the above statement)

    I do agree that basic respect should be given, not only online, but in everyday life on and offline. However, there are so many kinds of people, attitudes, personalities, mentalities, culture and philosophy, not everyone can see eye to eye or even be on the same "wavelength" even if you're using the same language.
    (No sarcasm whatsoever, above is my point of view.)

    What is my point? well, everyone could start being less uptight and learn to relax. Take things in a lighter tone. Have some fun. Learn to be tolerant to other points of view and beliefs. Not every thing is meant to attack you. Learn to lean back in your seat once in a while and laugh the world away.
    (above is again my point of view, or rather my philosophy. No sarcasm or malice. You can disagree with what I said, no problem at all. You can think and even call me an idiot, I'm fine with that.)

    BTW: Telling people what kind of "etiquette", beliefs, moral values, ethics, etc they should practice or live by, is also sort of l33t. "What made you think you're so right and I'm so wrong?" Of course, "advice" can always be given. Just don't force it down the other's throat.
    (ooooh, above paragraph IS flame-bait. I just can't stop being a troll. Oh well, a troll will be a troll will be a troll.)


    (This is "kopitiam" rite? Hope no one offended by my post. If you are, then......read my sig.... )


    Not offended at all, this is what we do in kopitiams.

  13. #13
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    steady lah togu, you must have like store up all those thoughts and feelings for sometime to come out with such comprehensive post about the common etiquette of trolls...

    upz for you!

  14. #14

    Thumbs up Agree with Yogu



    Put yourself in the seller's shoe.

    What you hope is for someone to who is willing and of course who wants to buy! No one can force the buyer to buy something no good or something he/she does not want.

    There are so many brands outside and people with different needs and wants.

    Take Togu for instance...he has left the E10 family but never ceases to make a positive contributing comment even back in Olympus gallery. Owning a D60 never sees him making a degrading remark on someone elses's camera. All he did was to remind me that perhaps soemwhere down I did make a 5 year resolution and that reminded me things.

    The basic point is that when we are not buying or sellingsomething...BE SENSITIVE to the seller who needs to recover some cash...BE SENSITIVE to the buyer who must have been quite bombarded by view points, research over DPreview, Steves-digicams...etc what have you.

    No offense though



  15. #15

    Default Re: Trolls....

    Originally posted by togu
    B]
    Some wanted to throw off their gears, perhaps to upgrade, or to recover some cash. Some wanted to try out some new stuffs, or to save some cash there. Sounds good, ain't it? Unfortunately, there are some trolls who feels bored in their cave, and decided to go in for a walk, at the same time, makes some funny remarks.

    "Wah, so expensive"
    "I can buy this at $xxx elsewhere."
    "XX place selling at $xx price, why are you selling at this price?"
    "Wah you ask for $xxx, can you cut down to $xxx / 2 ?"
    "I won't pay $xxx for a xx year product, not worth it"
    "Your product is xxx years old, you should sell at $xxx *75%"
    "This product is (1+1 =20) (2+5=100), I know it, cos I'm using it!!"
    "This product is shitty, xxx is way better"
    "Why didn't you post the pros and cons? What's your intention??"
    etc, etc
    [/B]
    How about those that mentioned

    "I will pay only $XX amount for your goods."

    "This setup is discontinued, I think it shouldn't worth more than $XX"

    In one hand, we think that we will spoilt the seller thread if we pointed out "high price, lousy product".

    In another hand, we (those who have the price or product knowledge) can't help but give our 2 cents worth.

    We hurt the seller but save the potential buyer. By keeping mum, the buyer might buy a 2nd hand product with a save of only few dollars/percent.

    There is always 2 side of a coin. How we find a balance is very important.
    Last edited by Xiao_shin; 22nd February 2003 at 01:38 PM.

  16. #16
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    for Togu.

    I don't wanna get involve, so I BO CHAP! Muahahahaaahaa!

  17. #17
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    subjective....

    depending from which pt of the perspective one is looking from.....

    I for one is guilty of posting some remarks which may be detrimental to someones sales in some threads....
    esp with regards to pricing.....since some of us do actually check out prices of certain items we are gg to purchase....

    But the post was made in consideration of facts.....
    So is that considered a behaviour of a troll?





  18. #18

    Default Re: Re: Trolls....

    Originally posted by Xiao_shin


    How about those that mentioned

    "I will pay only $XX amount for your goods."

    "This setup is discontinued, I think it shouldn't worth more than $XX"

    In one hand, we think that we will spoilt the seller thread if we pointed out "high price, lousy product".

    In another hand, we (those who have the price or product knowledge) can't help but give our 2 cents worth.

    We hurt the seller but save the potential buyer. By keeping mum, the buyer might buy a 2nd hand product with a save of only few dollars/percent.

    There is always 2 side of a coin. How we find a balance is very important.
    As I had mentioned earlier on,

    "Perhaps some of those trolls just wanted to share some experience. Well, feel free to do it, but in another thread. Learn to respect the thread starter. Just imagine that you are eating Swiss Mushroom burgers in Macdonalds and talking loudly about it, only because you thinks Burger King are way better."

    It's always good to discuss, share your POV, or to alert others. BUT, it'll definitely be much better if you can create a separate thread and discuss it over. If a potential buyer is interested in the piece of product, it's his/her duty to do some research on it. Furthermore, how do 1 justify about the $xx in a statement like this?

    "This setup is discontinued, I think it shouldn't worth more than $XX"

    Sorry to said this, but if 1 is thinking that's it's good deed to save others for paying less by posting such remarks, how about pulling a chair outside CP and remind any walk-in about the price they can get elsewhere?

    "The seller can post any price or any words they wants, if there are buyers, great! It should be another happy deal made. If no , it's up to the seller to adjust his price. It's him/her who are selling it anyway."

    It's a public forum, respect is a 2 way thing.
    Last edited by togu; 22nd February 2003 at 08:50 PM.

  19. #19

    Default

    Originally posted by Revo
    subjective....

    depending from which pt of the perspective one is looking from.....

    I for one is guilty of posting some remarks which may be detrimental to someones sales in some threads....
    esp with regards to pricing.....since some of us do actually check out prices of certain items we are gg to purchase....

    But the post was made in consideration of facts.....
    So is that considered a behaviour of a troll?




    Heh Revo,

    That's easy to justify, start selling something.

  20. #20
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    Originally posted by togu


    Heh Revo,

    That's easy to justify, start selling something.
    hehe...been there done that....
    tho not here yet....cos i dun have much things to sell that are photography related.

    But frm past experience......

    Ok....true enuff....V taxing mentally n frustrating when what u mentioned happens.....

    But its not only common in here....but almost everywhere...

    U get cheapskates, scammers, pilots, what have u....

    Some times you see pple coming in to help....or to comment...n worst off...TO FLAME....

    Comment wise...cant be help...(at least i think so...)
    Cos as buyers/sellers all of them want the best price...

    If we were to say, "y not leave it to the buyers n sellers to decide?"
    True...but it can also work the other way...after comments made.
    (if its facts thats being conveyed from a third party)

    I cant say i understand the agony of buying something...den trying to sell off to recover money with so called "nosey parkers?" coming in to sorta disrupt the deal....(becos i am not the actual seller in the situation)

    But normally, i try to let the buyer decide...if he's still interested, den gre8 (becos normally this would be an easier deal) but if not...no choice carry on peddling the sales....

    I know it sounds absurd to some, but this are truely what i feel.
    (of cos, i not try to post something becos i wanna "ahem" the seller/buyer lahz... )

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